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  1. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Well the only one that can apply here is doing favours for friends. But you don't have to have worked with someone for them to be your friend. So that could apply to anyone. I'm sure if we looked at Facebook's social map, we'd find every journalist with conflicted with every publisher.



    That's a problem I'll admit. Not much you can do about it though. Games PR requires most of the same skills and knowledge Games journalism needs but pays twice as much.


    And that's why we will encounter so many apologetics articles for the publishers like kotaku's "it's stupid to hate X so much, because it contradict my 10\10 review",and so little critique from the same journous(and when they do criticize publishers, it's not that hard as it is with gamers). Gotta keep that PR job at hand no?
    Last edited by dnf; 15-11-2012 at 07:20 PM.

  2. #822
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizzu View Post
    Through the quality of (and the integrity displayed in) his work. Of course, "prove" is in this case the wrong term for it, because those things are entirely subjective. So: We cannot ultimately prove that his work is biased, and we can't prove that it isn't. So it depends on the case.
    But that's the criteria you've just laid out. If you're saying 'guilty till proven innocent' then there was to be a case for the proof to exist of innocent, otherwise you're simply making a determination of guilt. There's a reason why 'innocent until proven guilty' is the norm.

    I think we have a pretty clear one here even without reading the article, considering the score he gave and the fact that the author got called out for his past in the comments. This means that someone did some research, so the article must have been of dubious character
    But his score is no more or less than what many other critics have given: -

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-...?dist=positive

    So how does this 'dubious character' factor into things exactly?
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  3. #823
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Name a professional games writer. I will 'prove' they are corrupt using purely the arguments people in this thread used to 'prove' Lauren Wainwright's corruption and that of this EG.fr guy.
    Right.
    Keiron Gillen.

  4. #824
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Right.
    Keiron Gillen.
    KG hasn't written game reviews in years. How about citing someone relevant.

    Still: -

    http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...operId,313183/

    Positech as in our good friend Cliffski. All that RPS coverage for Kudos 2 and the tie-ins with the artist working on that and KGs phonogram comic...

    http://www.phonogramcomic.com/

    No doubt Dexter will be rooting out the truth on that score.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 15-11-2012 at 07:47 PM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  5. #825
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    No-one accused the EG.fr guy of being corrupt, just of writing a review he shouldn't based on his past work history.

    Lauren Wainwright was proven to be irredeemably compromised and to be behaving unethically.

    Let's see:
    Tom Chick
    Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Bruce Geryk

  6. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Right.
    Keiron Gillen.
    Easy, Kieron worked on a comic to go with the game Chaos League in 2004. This game was published by Focus Home Interactive. Less than two years' later in 2006 Kieron co-wrote a Verdict on RPS of Trackmania United Forever which was published by... Focus Home Interactive. No declaration of this conflict of interest was made in the Verdict article.

    RPS Verdict:
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008...nited-forever/

    Info on his work on Chaos League:
    http://gillen.cream.org/wordpress_ht...ogame-scripts/

    Next!

  7. #827
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious View Post
    Lauren Wainwright was proven to be irredeemably compromised and to be behaving unethically.
    Proven? She gave DX:HR one of the lowest scores it received. How exactly is that proof positive of being either compromised or behaving unethically?

    Tom Chick
    http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/201...-solar-empire/

    5/5 stars

    http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...loperId,40973/

    Should this man really be reviewing games from companies he's worked previously as a consultant for?
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  8. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious View Post
    Tom Chick
    Worked for NBC while it was owned by Vivendi. But he slags off Blizzard (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415896) - must have had a bad experience there.

    Rev. Stuart Campbell
    You mean the guy that talked about how awesome Sensible Software and Cannon Fodder were until they gave him a job on the sequel?
    Bruce Geryk
    Wrote the manual to Dominions 3, which was published by Shrapnel games who publish a hell of a lot of just the sort of strategy games he writes about. I can find a definite example later if you really want. Harder though as Bruce doesn't tend to do straight reviews much at all.

  9. #829
    Network Hub Namdrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    No, no, it really isn't. Find me one text book, or website, that actually defines a conflict of interest where the two interests aren't running concurrently.

    Because y'know, when you get a conflict of interest, you solve it by recusing yourself from one interest or the other. Which he did when he left Activision.

    Now, if you want to hold them to a higher standard (as EG does with it's 2-year policy) then fair enough. But that's a higher standard than any other industry requires, and it certainly ain't a conflict of interest.

    Or if that's too complex, answer my original question: why is it in the writer's interest to give CoD Warface a good review? Or a bad one for that matter?
    Actually, the when companies and governments etc draft 'conflict of interest' guidelines/policies, they emphasize 'the appearance of a conflict of interest'. & that alone is enough to condemn actions.

    For example, the head of the MPAA IIRC is a former senator for the US government. It is enough that it looks like he is being rewarded for his years as an industry stooge inside government. Whether it is true or not does not matter, the appearance of corruption is enough to make the behaviour wrong.

    It is the same in the financial industry. People could be ethical and play both sides of the fence without being corrupt. But that doesn't matter when it comes to it being against industry regulations.

  10. #830
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namdrol View Post
    Actually, the when companies and governments etc draft 'conflict of interest' guidelines/policies, they emphasize 'the appearance of a conflict of interest'. & that alone is enough to condemn actions.
    The when companies? Maybe you can perhaps cite 'the when companies' website and link us to some prime examples of 'the when companies' legislation that backs up your statements because frankly I'd say the wikipedia article does a better job of explaining it: -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflic...s_of_interests
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  11. #831
    Activated Node mizzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    But that's the criteria you've just laid out. If you're saying 'guilty till proven innocent' then there was to be a case for the proof to exist of innocent, otherwise you're simply making a determination of guilt. There's a reason why 'innocent until proven guilty' is the norm.
    Okay, I see that. It's probably just my cynic nature to assume someone like him will have a biased opinion, whether that is true or not. (The same way I assume a politician who's also in the top management of a corporation (and I'm pretty sure most are) will likely be lobbying in his political work)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    But his score is no more or less than what many other critics have given: -

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-...?dist=positive

    So how does this 'dubious character' factor into things exactly?
    Oh. I wouldn't have thought that (seriously). Well, there goes my argument. I'd dive into the article now, but you know, French.

    I also would have liked to point out that the guy probably still worked on the BLOPS 2 marketing, but since he left acti at the same time MW3 was released, it seems not to be the case. Still don't trust him.

  12. #832
    Network Hub Namdrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    The when companies? Maybe you can perhaps cite 'the when companies' website and link us to some prime examples of 'the when companies' legislation that backs up your statements because frankly I'd say the wikipedia article does a better job of explaining it: -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflic...s_of_interests
    my head moves faster then my thumbs...that should have read: "When the HR depts of corporations and conflict of interest and ethics commissioners in government etc draft..."

    http://www.mcgill.ca/files/secretari...ulation-on.pdf
    http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/House/St...rs/appa1-e.htm
    http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-conten...olicy_2012.pdf

    Relying on wikipedia for anything is like trying to inform yourself about political issues by reading bumper stickers.

  13. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post

    But his score is no more or less than what many other critics have given: -

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-...?dist=positive

    So how does this 'dubious character' factor into things exactly?
    You do realize that people that says game journos are rotten to the core is the ones who thinks these high scores to a overmarketed game like COD are worthless? By all means, someone who gives COD a score in the 8-10 mark is either corrupt or just another incompetent moron in the game journos world! Its hilarious that i can come to more fair criticism reading the public opinion, not the professional ones! For me its proof enough that game reviews and news is worthless...

  14. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious View Post
    No-one accused the EG.fr guy of being corrupt, just of writing a review he shouldn't based on his past work history.

    Lauren Wainwright was proven to be irredeemably compromised and to be behaving unethically.
    Well, since most people here just can't get enough proff, i just say that she is just another utter incompetent journalist so full of fail that i wouldn't trust her with a review of space invaders...

  15. #835
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf View Post
    You do realize that people that says game journos are rotten to the core is the ones who thinks these high scores to a overmarketed game like COD are worthless? By all means, someone who gives COD a score in the 8-10 mark is either corrupt or just another incompetent moron in the game journos world! Its hilarious that i can come to more fair criticism reading the public opinion, not the professional ones! For me its proof enough that game reviews and news is worthless...
    Or, and I know this is going to come as quite a shock so perhaps you might want to sit down for a while... *or* they actually like Call Of Duty games. I know! I know! It's crazy isn't it? A world where your tastes are not the common ones. SHOCKING.

    Which is the key problem with what you're arguing here, you're essentially boiling everything down to people who don't agree with you are corrupt because how could they not be?

    That's probably not smart, y'know?
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
    I just get a bit fidgety times
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  16. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Or, and I know this is going to come as quite a shock so perhaps you might want to sit down for a while... *or* they actually like Call Of Duty games. I know! I know! It's crazy isn't it? A world where your tastes are not the common ones. SHOCKING.

    Which is the key problem with what you're arguing here, you're essentially boiling everything down to people who don't agree with you are corrupt because how could they not be?

    That's probably not smart, y'know?
    Not really corrupt, but gaming illiterate morons? sure... im really not interested in the lowest common denominator opinions coming from the game journos so they are irrelevant to me.

  17. #837
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    I would give every Call of Duty 11/10 for free and I don't even play too much multiplayer or zombies. I'm sure some reviewers are just like me.

  18. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKicksalot View Post
    I would give every Call of Duty 11/10 for free and I don't even play too much multiplayer or zombies. I'm sure some reviewers are just like me.
    Well lets see the pros:
    the game would not let me explore the enviromment,
    If the screens turn red, its time to run for cover,
    Imma big man in the turret sections,
    Super scripted stealth sections, go fuck yourself Thief
    respawning enemies everiwhere o god its heaven!!!

    Yeah, high production values can amaze people,expecially the inexperient but thats it...

  19. #839
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf View Post
    Not really corrupt, but gaming illiterate morons? sure... im really not interested in the lowest common denominator opinions coming from the game journos so they are irrelevant to me.
    Because obviously your vastly superior knowledge of games eclipses theirs, right? And the games you play are objectively superior games because [insert fat tony article here].

    I don't even slightly hate to break it to you but wherever your tastes may lie, they're not superior. Soz.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
    I just get a bit fidgety times
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  20. #840
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf View Post
    Well lets see the pros:
    the game would not let me explore the enviromment,
    Super scripted stealth sections, go fuck yourself Thief
    respawning enemies everiwhere o god its heaven!!!
    None of these apply to BLOPS2.
    Crysis has turret sections and regenerating health too. What does that have to do with the quality of a game?
    If anything shame on you for letting the screen turn red...

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