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  1. #1
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    Dishonored - of thieves and kings. Spoilers! (Buy it, play it, then come here)

    So, I finished Dishonored and am absolutely excited.

    Let's talk about it.
    Topics for the start:

    1. Outsider obviously has many agents in the world. Corvo, Daud, Granny Rags. What's his agenda? One book connects him to the whales (among others). Does he represent mythos and magic, as opposed to technical progress?
    Whales and sea (nature?) vs their exploitation via whale oil?

    When I killed Granny Rags, there were no repercussions from him.
    He knows about the ancient city that used to be in Dunwall's place thousand years ago.

    Why would he help Corvo? What's his gain, his angle?

    2. Who is Granny Rags? Emperor himself asked her to be his wife and she refused. She can be heard talking to her imaginative "lover with dark eyes" (Outsider, no doubt) who obviously exploits her, promises her his love, sometimes chides her or is angry because she failed his task.

    3. Who is Corvo? The first Lord Protector from outside of Gristol, from Serkonos, the same as Daud, who mentions losing his hope unlike the young one (remember correctly?).
    3a. Is Corvo the late Empress' lover? Is he Emily's biological father?

    4. The heart might be the Empress, right? There was a hint of it somewhere, IIRC.

    5. When I came to Anton Sokolov's lab and heard him and his audiograph, I thought he was creating a more resilient strain of the plague. Did I misunderstand it? Was he testing ineffective elixir mixtures?

  2. #2
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    So who has finished it yet and wants to talk about the details?

  3. #3
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    Okay I'll bite. I can't help but feel they kept a bunch of this stuff deliberately vague so I'm not sure there's real answers...

    The vibe I got from the Outsider was "bored ancient god".
    He talks about helping Corvo just because he finds him interesting, and his later chats when you find runes suggested to me that he just wanted to see what you'd do. There's also one bit where someone is trying to get powers from the Outsider but he finds them boring so he doesn't. So yeah I think his agenda is "give powers to interesting people who are likely to stir the pot and see what happens for his own amusement".

    There's a definite suggestion that Corvo is Emily's father...there's hints about Corvo being the Empress' lover, there's no sign of any Emperor around, and the admiral's journal at the end says "is he really her father?". Seems like it would be a pretty obvious rumour to get spread though, especially when he's such a father figure anyway, but I would still go with "probably".

    The heart sounds like the Empress, and talks at one point about a personal relationship with one of the characters (Sokolov I think?)....and it certainly seems like the sort of thing someone like the Outsider might want to do. I kind of assumed it was, but then it doesn't really betray any personal connection when talking about Emily so I dunno.

    Granny Rags I thought was just another of the Outsider's pawns, driven mad by his gifts. Slackjaw mentions the stories of "Granny" when he was a kid, so she's clearly been around a very long time as well. I stumbled on her shrine (and the outsider chat) before I killed her though, so I don't know what he would say if she was already dead.

  4. #4
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    In addition to all the 'Corvo is the father" stuff:

    http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59...CEAD0E9199375/

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    Yeah, Emily definitely sees Corvo as a father figure. Everything points to it. But that just might be a misdirection. Maybe he is her uncle and his brother, Emily's father and the Empress' lover is already dead (just thinking out loud about the possibilities). :)

    Polycrates, you're right, Slackjaw mentions Granny having been around (and strange and possibly old?) when he was a kid. And he might be what? In his thirties, fourties? Then again kids see all adults as old.

    I took the rune after I killed her and the Outsider didn't comment it at all, which might be something the devs forgot to do or more likely he simply doesn't care about her, as can be heard from her longing and hurt monologues.

  6. #6
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    1. Outsider obviously has many agents in the world. Corvo, Daud, Granny Rags. What's his agenda? One book connects him to the whales (among others). Does he represent mythos and magic, as opposed to technical progress?
    Whales and sea (nature?) vs their exploitation via whale oil?

    He is a godlike creature that can't die, but want to be entertained.

    3. Who is Corvo? The first Lord Protector from outside of Gristol, from Serkonos, the same as Daud, who mentions losing his hope unlike the young one (remember correctly?).
    3a. Is Corvo the late Empress' lover? Is he Emily's biological father?

    It can be either way, what is sure is that is the father figure.


    4. The heart might be the Empress, right? There was a hint of it somewhere, IIRC.

    Is the same voice actor (its listed like that in the credits). So I think is the same character.

  7. #7
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    Did anyone at the end think that you just removed 2 dictators for another? Emily's final speech is horrifying.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    Did anyone at the end think that you just removed 2 dictators for another? Emily's final speech is horrifying.
    Did you get the high chaos ending?

  9. #9
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    Yeah though I only ever did two high chaos missions (both at the end cause fuck restraint when you'v been double crossed. One I killed 41 people. The other was only 3 but it must of carried over). What happens in the last sequence if it's low chaos?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    Yeah though I only ever did two high chaos missions (both at the end cause fuck restraint when you'v been double crossed. One I killed 41 people. The other was only 3 but it must of carried over). What happens in the last sequence if it's low chaos?
    Low chaos SPOILER Peiro and Sokolov work together to make a cure for the plague and everything is made all better again.

  11. #11
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    Low chaos ending is beautiful, basically an all around happy ending. Emily will be called "Emily the Wise", Piero and Sokolov create a cure together, Samuel opens his own pub where Corvo will drink in the evenings. :)

  12. #12
    One thing I was really stunned by, is how original the IP is. I mean, it's sort of steampunk, but... There's something about it that fascinated me, the books strewn around, the pistols people used. A mixture of Edwardian, Georgian and Tudor themes and architecture, as well as hints of the renaissance.

    Then there's the whales.. I was really surprised they weren't featured more. I assumed they would be the main plot point of the game, the scandal you fought to uncover, to save the whales. Seems like a weak Greenpeace campaign when I put it like that, but there were so many hints throughout (Books, the heart).

    Oh yeah, one more thing - The cast! All star cast here. Brad Dourif, Chloe Moretz, Lena Headey, Susan Sarandon, John Slattery.

    Carrie Fisher was supposed to be the voice of the loudspeakers as well, but I didn't notice her.
    Last edited by Alex Bakke; 15-10-2012 at 12:07 PM.

  13. #13
    The whales are interesting, more so is water / the sea throughout the whole game.

    The sea and water in general are important. The sea gives Dunwall its power, through its links to the other islands and in the game's not so distant past through access to whales, and with them "trans", the driver of the industrial revolution. As the plague sets in the sea suddenly becomes a problem, rather than a source of power. The sea wall fails, and the industrial district floods. There is dramatic irony to the whaling industry drowning. The plague places the whole city at the mercy of water, Samuel says that there is no way in or out of the Hound Pits apart from by river, and it seems that the river is the only way around the whole city. There is also a link between water and magic, one of the bone charms allows you to recharge mana through drinking water.

    The water is the binary opposite of the city, just as magic is the opposite of the city's technology. The overseers try to suppress magic and the outsider, but it seems that they don't have a great deal of success. There is clearly an affinity between magic and whales, the runes etc are all made of whale bone. The whale is an intermediate between magic and technology, which it gives it symbolic power. Similarly the whale crosses between water and city.

    I think there is an argument that the plague is punishment for the city's avarice and exploitation of whales. The plague is introduced the Lord Regent yes, but there is also some suggestion in the game that the outsider pushes it to crisis point. At one point you find journal that states rats get much worse around one group of people after they are joined by a person carrying a rune. Rats are clearly of the outsider, Corvo can summon rats, Granny Rags uses swarms of rats etc. The outsider is like the sea, and therefore dangerous and chaotic, the plague is the undoing of the established power structure, but is not necessarily a force for good.

    I have a question, why are there so many dog cages everywhere?

  14. #14
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    Likely for Wolfhounds, but maybe they were reduced late production. Or just there for clutter.
    Could even be for storing/moving/trapping rats.

    About where the plague came from: It is explained ingame, if you explore enough.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnox View Post
    Likely for Wolfhounds, but maybe they were reduced late production. Or just there for clutter.
    Could even be for storing/moving/trapping rats.

    About where the plague came from: It is explained ingame, if you explore enough.
    Further than introduced by the Spymaster / Lord Regent? Do tell.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    My guess on the plague is that while introduced by the Lord Regent the Outsider/his agents had their hands in it, especially Granny Rags and her "birdies".

    I believe one preorder box contains a journal from "Granny Rags"/Very Moray with more detail on her background.

  17. #17
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    mbthegreat, very interesting thoughts regarding the link between magic, water, whales and the Outsider.
    There is also a lot of water in The Void.

    As for the plague, Sokolov brought it from his voyages but the Spymaster unleashed it on the populace, starting in the poor districts (where the disease is the most evolved, according to Giovani's diary, IIRC), no?
    I haven't noticed any hint that the Outsider might have helped spreading the plague.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Revisor View Post
    I haven't noticed any hint that the Outsider might have helped spreading the plague.
    No, but the connection between the outsider and rats is certainly there.

    On the subject of the outsider, if you take a step back and try to look at the events in Dishonored from his perspective you'll see that he experiences time much like a mathematical equation. You can change the variables and thus change the outcome, but the equation will always remain the same. Furthermore, I think he does know the equation, but doesn't have all the answers, because you can't really predict the unpredictability of the human psyche. By granting people his mark and creating chaos in the world he changes the variables of the equation and get's a new result.

    This leads me to believe that more than anything the outsider is an analogue to both the developers and the players. The developers were pretty honest with their intentions for the game from the very beginning. "We want to give players these tools, just to see what they'll do with it." In this case we, the players, are the variables in the equation. Similarly, the player takes on the role of the outsider himself. After playing through the game once and knowing how the story goes, you are invited to go back and redo missions. To try things you didn't try the first time or to do things just to see what happens.

    Also, did anyone else feel they screwed up the pacing of the storyline big time? Maybe it's the fact that they let you sleep once just to set up the outsider and his mark, but I'm pretty sure the game just blatantly skips ahead six days for no apparent reason. The story apparently takes place over the course of a couple of months, but I felt it all happened within a week.
    Last edited by Bork Titflopsen; 16-10-2012 at 02:24 AM.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    Also, did anyone else feel they screwed up the pacing of the storyline big time? Maybe it's the fact that they let you sleep once just to set up the outsider and his mark, but I'm pretty sure the game just blatantly skips ahead six days for no apparent reason. The story apparently takes place over the course of a couple of months, but I felt it all happened within a week.
    Seriously? I thought the same, especially as the dialogue with Hemlock/that noble guy hinted towards it, always excusing for asking one more thing of me, "giving you little time to rest" etc.

  20. #20
    Yeah man, I believe it was the transition between some of the earlier levels where they skipped those days.

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