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Thread: How much?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    MMOs are only marginally about the gameplay.

    MMOs are forum communities with GUIs. You play with other people rather than playing the game.
    This is why MMOs are enemies of gaming.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  2. #22
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    Just because you made friends(UK definition) playing a game doesn't mean the game is all about making friends.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    I've been playing WoW since 2007, and I did the whole hardcore raiding thing between '08-'10. Then I took a break to finish my PhD, more or less 10 months, and came back "casually", mostly to hang out with the friends I made there. So I second the whole "it's a nice, familiar place on the net" theme, because that's what it is, most of all.

    That being said, while there is a lot I dislike about Pandaria, the reworked classes are actually quite nice. I haven't had this much fun playing a warlock in quite some time.

    I did buy GW2, but then found out I don't have the patience to learn another MMO at this time. Maybe in the future.

  4. #24
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    I spent $20 on the retail copy of LoL. Didn't even know it was f2p, just looked interesting. $5 for two retail copies of D&D online (they had cards that were worth more), and full price for wow and 2 expansions, plus about a years worth of subs. Haven't paid for any in years though, and I probably won't again.

  5. #25
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    If it were a sandbox, free economy player driven full loot ffa pvp mmo with combat that can stand up to a proper fighting game (not god of war and tripe like that) (dream game) I'd be willing to pay 15 euros a month.

    In all other cases : nothing. In general, you'd have to pay me.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Just because you made friends(UK definition) playing a game doesn't mean the game is all about making friends.
    It does mean that different people play the same game for different reasons. Though that makes me curious to what Blizzard actually thinks WoW is all about. Aside from making obscene amounts of money, that is.

    And you'll have to enlighten me about the difference between a friend in the UK and a friend in the US.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I don't think I'll ever get into another MMORPG unless it's mechanics are drastically different and the setting appeals to me after playing WoW so much. PS2 is great because it's a whole different style of game and it's all just game, no "getting to level X before the game starts". I understand that GW2 is meant to be like that, but it's mechanics and fantasy setting look like I'd just be replacing WoW with it. And while it may be non-subbed, like I said earlier all my mates are already in the one place.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    And you'll have to enlighten me about the difference between a friend in the UK and a friend in the US.
    Brits have tendency to use "friend" very casually, and it seems to include everyone from actual friends to buddies to acquaintances.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Ten years ago, £35 + £12 subscription fee. Now? Nothing. Even disregarding my low opinion of current MMOs, the days when I'm regularly willing to drop that kind of cheddar on a video game are long gone.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    This is why MMOs are enemies of gaming.
    I honestly wonder about the kinds of people who get annoyed because they play MMOs like single-player games where random people steal all your kills.

    Part of me thinks they haven't gotten beyond the toddler stage of parallel play. Part of me think they may have Aspergers. Most of me, however, doesn't care.
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  11. #31
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    There's some prime nonsense in this thread - I suspect quite a few people here have either

    a - never played an MMO
    b - played one for 20 mins before something nasty happened to them(*)

    For me, MMOs offer a number of things

    1 - endless progress
    Yes, I LIKE that about them. Why? Well, when I put 20 hours into a single player game, all I have at the end of it is the knowledge I've played it - wheras - the same 20 hours in an MMO are progress on which I can continue to build until I get bored. This also means there's latitude in the game too - I can level-up or go PvP or farm or do trades or whatever - I'm not just doing 'Chapter 1' so I can do 'Chapter 2' and then finally 'Chapter 22'.

    2 - the game is alive
    I'm not logging into a 'stage set' into which I'm the only human (or maybe there are 2-3 other humans) - I'm logging into an actual world full of real people who will influence the game I'm playing. Part of succeeding in an MMO is learning to manage your relationships with other people - whether they are the randoms you do a difficult quest with or your guild mates of many years acquaintance. Sure you can play 'solo' but in reality, few people do.

    3 - other people see my progress
    I didn't put several hundred hours of effort into one character so he could get cool shoulder pieces - I did it so I could get those shoulder pieces and other people would SEE them (serverfirstmobile baby) :)

    4 - MMOs reward replay better than any other genre
    The number of single-player games I've completed more than once I can list on my fingers - and yet EVERY MMO I've played I've had multiple characters active - often multiple characters 'maxed out' in some way. The nature of the game also means having multiple characters has other benefits that most single-player games just can't offer - again it's more like a 'world' than a 'solo existence'.

    4 - they're cheap
    Whilst playing WoW I was spending £30/2 years (expansion) and £8 a month on subs but I don't buy any other games.
    Whilst I'm not playing WoW I tend to spend £30-40 a month on games at least - games I get bored of too quickly.

    They're not for everyone and the market has changed a lot (thanks to being dominated by one simply brilliant world for so long) but I don't regret 1 minute of the eons I've spent in MMOs - I have memories of things I've done which almost feel real - they happened with real people, the places are memorable to me etc. etc.

    (*) My first ever time in EQ I fell through the floor into a well - it took me a good 20 mins to work-out what the hell to do about that and I never really liked EQ after that :)

  12. #32
    Network Hub MD!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I honestly wonder about the kinds of people who get annoyed because they play MMOs like single-player games where random people steal all your kills.

    Part of me thinks they haven't gotten beyond the toddler stage of parallel play. Part of me think they may have Aspergers. Most of me, however, doesn't care.
    Surely it's more that they play them like games, and as games (in the narrow sense) MMOs tend to be shithouse. You said yourself that "MMOs are forum communities with GUIs"; is it really a shock that not everyone wants or expects that?

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    I've yet to meet a true MMO that I'd pay anything for. Most of them, you'd have to pay me to play, and considering that they actually feel like work that model makes a lot of sense to me.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MD! View Post
    Surely it's more that they play them like games, and as games (in the narrow sense) MMOs tend to be shithouse. You said yourself that "MMOs are forum communities with GUIs"; is it really a shock that not everyone wants or expects that?
    Surely you understand that everybody here can pick apart the mechanics of every single-player game on the market inside of four minutes because no game is honestly that complex on its mechanics alone?

    The games that last are the games you play against other people, and in the case of MMOs, you play with and against a lot of people in a system where the win parameters are nebulously defined. If you're looking for emergent gameplay, buddy, this is it​.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  15. #35
    Network Hub MD!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Surely you understand that everybody here can pick apart the mechanics of every single-player game on the market inside of four minutes because no game is honestly that complex on its mechanics alone?
    I don't, because that's simply not true.

    There are certainly single-player games that stand entirely on the strength of their mechanics. If by "pick apart" you mean all games can quickly be 'broken' and made trivial, that statement is self-evidently false. If you mean something else, what are you getting at? Some single-player games remain interesting for quite a long time based solely on the challenge of understanding and manipulating their mechanics to solve problems. (Examples: SpaceChem; Civilization, for a certain type of player; probably some RPGs, for a certain type of player.) Others offer a more physical challenge, the challenge of developing a skill that is enjoyable to execute and in the best cases can be improved almost indefinitely. (Example: Good racing games. Challenge-based platformers. Most good action games, really.)*

    (There are also plenty of multi-player games with well-defined win conditions that remain intrinsically interesting 'as games', not because of a meta-layer of social interaction. They require decision-making and/or execution that is challenging and that one can improve at, but that in practice can never be perfected. These games will continue to throw up new situations even from identical starting conditions, because a) there is no known best strategy, and/or b) nobody can execute that strategy perfectly. (Examples: Chess, any decent 'e-sports' game.))

    Obviously this is almost never the full story. We care about presentation, we are affected by cheap psychological tricks, we enjoy stories and worlds and social interaction. But games absolutely can be good at being games, and can be enjoyable largely or even solely on that basis.

    So, again, what is shocking or silly about hoping that MMO x might be a good 'game' in the sense described above, and feeling disappointed when it turns out to be a forum community with a GUI?

    *If you like, you can ignore everything relating to physical execution (arguably that's got more to do with "sports" than "games", though either way it is an element that videogames can do well but MMOs tend to be crap at, so I reckon it is relevant) rather than pure decision-making. You're still left with SpaceChem, Chess, Civilization, etc., which can carry my main point on their own.
    Last edited by MD!; 31-10-2012 at 08:03 AM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I honestly wonder about the kinds of people who get annoyed because they play MMOs like single-player games where random people steal all your kills.
    I honestly wonder about the kinds of people who play MMOs for the social aspect, since they're usually filled with the worst the humanity has to offer.

    And Brazillians.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    I honestly wonder about the kinds of people who play MMOs for the social aspect, since they're usually filled with the worst the humanity has to offer.

    And Brazillians.
    Every game community has a massive amount of "teh worst of humanity!" to it. Just like the internet is a terrible community. However on the internet you can be lucky enough at times if you do enough searching in the right place to find a smaller and better community. It also helps when you've friends and the game offers enough different play styles to suit peoples tastes, pvp, pve, both in casual and hardcore variants, exploration, professions, playing the economy.

  18. #38
    Network Hub bad guy's Avatar
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    I don't do subscription gaming because it feels like a chain.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    So far I've spent £50 on Guild Wars 2. Since release I've played 230 hours according to the ingame timer. Plus however many hours in the beta weekends and stress tests. I think compared to any form of leisure that has to be pretty good value.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    I honestly wonder about the kinds of people who play MMOs for the social aspect, since they're usually filled with the worst the humanity has to offer.

    And Brazillians.
    If I was all that concerned about "the worst humanity has to offer," I wouldn't play computer games at all.

    Sorry, but y'all are some fucked up people.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

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