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  1. #1
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    Why is it when I don't look at GPUs for a while the prices go UP!

    It's way past time I replaced my 5670 - it's a 512Mb model and my (soon to arrive I hope) 23" monitor will stretch it (it's soldiering along at 1440x900 but 1920x1080 is a step up it won't like, I suspect??)

    Problem is, every time I look at likely replacements, the prices seem to be silly. I generally aim to double the power of my last GPU - but to do that I'd need a 650 TI/GTX 460 or a 6870 which are WAY out of my budget (which is under 100 - preferrably some way under it)

    A 6770/5770 or 550TI wouldn't require a PSU upgrade - which would be nice - but fall short of the 'double power' thing by some way AND they aren't exactly cheap either. I can't remember when I lasy paid over 75 for a GPU - I think it was a Diamond 3DFX card (which I still have somewhere!!)

    I've always managed this trick before but it seems PC hardware is doomed to not get cheaper/better atm!?

    Am I missing some amazing deals somewhere? Even eBay seems short of pre-owned cards (I've had a few over the years, generally without issues but it is a risk if the last owner ran them hard or forgot to cool em of course)

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    The Radeon HD 7770 is going for 90 or so - and you get a MANSHOOTER thrown in free of charge!

    It's better than the 550 Ti and significantly cheaper than the 650 Ti which is only a little better.

    If you want something better than a 7770, I'd go for the 7850. Even more so now that you get a free manshooter as well.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    There have always been the Moon logic pricing on the highest end cards. But because of demand tapering as even an older gpu can handle nearly all the latest games, partially because of console cycles.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  4. #4
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    GPU prices are outrageous atm.
    hd4850 prices in 2009 still have a hd 7850 beat in performance / dollar. The bang for buck market hasn't seen any real value increase in 3 years.

    According to moore's law we should be getting 3x the performance, but since prices have ballooned the performance / dollar has stayed the same instead of going up 3x in the same market segment.

    I just went with a hd6870 ( 60 percent upgrade from my 130 euro 4870) for 160 euros last year to tie me over until something comes along that 'll be an interesting buy again.

    Beware of the 7770, it's an asthmatic memory bandwidth starved card and there is a huge performance gap between it and a hd 7850.

    Try to find a 6870 or 560ti (650ti is quite a bit slower, again, beware) for around 130 euros if you can find it , anything slower isn't exactly hot shit at 1080p anymore for newer demanding games.
    Otherwise you're going to have to shell out a lot more starting with the 7850 or gtx 660.

    For reference, a hd6870 gives me 40-75 average fps in recent games at 1080p with no AA and everything at highest settings (AO on medium if the option is there, that one always guzzles frames on high), I'd say that is the minimum you'll want to go for to not feel like you need another upgrade immediately.
    Last edited by Finicky; 06-11-2012 at 05:02 AM.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    My 560ti which I bought a year ago has gone up by nearly €60. They're also near double the price of a 6870.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    My 560ti which I bought a year ago has gone up by nearly €60. They're also near double the price of a 6870.
    Seriously? That's hilarious.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    have you seen the screenshots thread? Pick out the nicest pics and ask what gpu was used. If it's more than a year old you are likely to find a good bargain on ebay.
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  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    GPU prices are outrageous atm.
    hd4850 prices in 2009 still have a hd 7850 beat in performance / dollar. The bang for buck market hasn't seen any real value increase in 3 years.

    According to moore's law we should be getting 3x the performance, but since prices have ballooned the performance / dollar has stayed the same instead of going up 3x in the same market segment.

    I just went with a hd6870 ( 60 percent upgrade from my 130 euro 4870) for 160 euros last year to tie me over until something comes along that 'll be an interesting buy again.

    Beware of the 7770, it's an asthmatic memory bandwidth starved card and there is a huge performance gap between it and a hd 7850.

    Try to find a 6870 or 560ti (650ti is quite a bit slower, again, beware) for around 130 euros if you can find it , anything slower isn't exactly hot shit at 1080p anymore for newer demanding games.
    Otherwise you're going to have to shell out a lot more starting with the 7850 or gtx 660.

    For reference, a hd6870 gives me 40-75 average fps in recent games at 1080p with no AA and everything at highest settings (AO on medium if the option is there, that one always guzzles frames on high), I'd say that is the minimum you'll want to go for to not feel like you need another upgrade immediately.
    Eh, what? A 60% performance improvement for a 23% price hike. That's better performance/dollar (or eurodollar) in my book.

    As for the HD 4850, it was selling for $129 after the early 2009 price cuts. The HD 7850 is currently selling for as little as $160 with a free game to boot. Even if we ignore the free game, that means the 7850 is delivering FAR more performance per dollar.
    A 5850 is at least 50% better than the 4850. The 7850 holds at least the same advantage over the 5850. So you're getting easily over twice as much performance, for less than a quarter more dollars (even if we ignore the free game and, lol, inflation).

    You could perhaps have argued that there have been disappointing gains in performance per dollar. But arguing that there have been no gains? That's just not going to work.

    As for the 7770, it's true that it is significantly weaker than the 7850. But it's only slightly weaker than the GTX 650 Ti which costs significantly more (closer to the 7850 than the 7770, even though its performance is closer to the latter). And to top if off, the 650 Ti is the memory bandwidth-starved card, not the 7770 (at least to a lesser degree). The 650 Ti has a significantly more powerful GPU, but only 86 GB/s memory bandwidth to the 7770's 72 GB/s.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    My 560ti which I bought a year ago has gone up by nearly €60. They're also near double the price of a 6870.
    Old hardware goes up in price as supply runs dry and/or production numbers tail off (with reduced economies of scale).

    For graphics cards, it only rarely makes sense to buy anything but the newest generation at retail (at least after the sometimes "optimistic" launch pricing goes away). Second-hand is often a different story, but it does have the usual drawbacks.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Yeah, while I was thinking of going for a second for SLI, I'm just going to wait until the pricing of the newer models comes down from the initial launch price.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Eh, what? A 60% performance improvement for a 23% price hike. That's better performance/dollar (or eurodollar) in my book.

    As for the HD 4850, it was selling for $129 after the early 2009 price cuts. The HD 7850 is currently selling for as little as $160 with a free game to boot. Even if we ignore the free game, that means the 7850 is delivering FAR more performance per dollar.
    A 5850 is at least 50% better than the 4850. The 7850 holds at least the same advantage over the 5850. So you're getting easily over twice as much performance, for less than a quarter more dollars (even if we ignore the free game and, lol, inflation).

    You could perhaps have argued that there have been disappointing gains in performance per dollar. But arguing that there have been no gains? That's just not going to work.

    As for the 7770, it's true that it is significantly weaker than the 7850. But it's only slightly weaker than the GTX 650 Ti which costs significantly more (closer to the 7850 than the 7770, even though its performance is closer to the latter). And to top if off, the 650 Ti is the memory bandwidth-starved card, not the 7770 (at least to a lesser degree). The 650 Ti has a significantly more powerful GPU, but only 86 GB/s memory bandwidth to the 7770's 72 GB/s.
    That's not how EU prices are...
    4870 was 130 euros in early 2009 with directCU cooler, 4850 was 110.
    7850 start at 170 euros here (granted I thought it was still more than that it was a few weeks ago, the recent amd price 'drops' -I shudder to call it that, because it would suggest you get a good deal now, no you just get a slightly less insulting deal- have finally increased performance/dollar from 2009.)

    The 7770 and 650ti are both pathetic cards with horrible memory bandwidth, comparing a turd to a rotten tomato doesn't mean one or the other is suddenly worth anything.
    70GB/sec is just completely unsuited for 1080p with any AA.
    Just to remind you, these things have 60 percent less memory bandwidth than the 4870 that you could get for the same price back in 2009!

    But you are right , now that amd prices have (inevitably, they can only scam people so many people with a higher price for a higher product number) come down you can finally get some more performance for your dollar than you could in 2009.
    It is still sad just how little more you get for your money than way back then though.

    Maybe when the true kepler cards release the price/performance will trickle down do the midrange . The high end large die cards should be 30-50 percent faster than the current pseudo high end narrow bus width, low bandwidth , small die gtx 680, so the high end bang for buck should go up by 30-50 percent (unless they now plan for another pricehike to sell the gtx 780 for 1000 euros)
    Last edited by Finicky; 06-11-2012 at 11:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    To the OP.

    Perhaps it's worth waiting it out and seeing how your computer performs with the new monitor and if you can deal with whatever fps hit you take if any.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    The 7850 is available in Denmark for 1109 DKK = €148 = 119, and that's including 25% VAT and generally high hardware prices.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    To the OP.

    Perhaps it's worth waiting it out and seeing how your computer performs with the new monitor and if you can deal with whatever fps hit you take if any.
    This is probably the best advice - I know things will drop a bit but the only game I have which doesn't really 'work' on this PC is NFS: The Run (which I got for free anyway) which has massive peaks and troughs in it's performance which I suspect may even be down to my CPU (as the GPU doesn't seem that stressed and changing quality settings doesn't help).

    I was in a CEX today (yes, one of the staff had silly hair - yes I've had a bath since) and they had a selection of GPUs, the prices of which demonstrated the craziness of the market as-is (a GTX460, preowned, 95!)

    eBay has a notable lack of preowned cards too - I guess with nothing really tempting to upgrade into, people are sticking with what they've got...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    eBay has a notable lack of preowned cards too - I guess with nothing really tempting to upgrade into, people are sticking with what they've got...
    Yup. No reason for anyone to upgrade since the 560ti was released unless you are moving up to a bigger budget segment. People just aren't replacing their mid range cards with mid range cards, it doesn't make sense right now.

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