Far Cry 2 - Too Real?

[Blackcompany]

Recently I discovered Far Cry 2. Fantastic game. Huge, open world. Good assortment of weapons. Vehicles. Graphics are more than serviceable. Its a solid, a very good game.

I can't play it.

Its too violent.

I enjoyed Fallout. Especially FONV. Ditto for both Borderlands games, Dishonored and even Saints Row III. All of those feature violence. Borderlands and SRIII thrive on it. So why can I play and enjoy these games, while finding Far Cry difficult.

Context.

The theme of each game matters. Lets face it: if you're taking the violence in SRIII or the Borderlands games even remotely seriously, please, stop reading this and seek help. I mean that without any malice and with the sincerest concern for your well-being. The violence in those games is truly over the top - but the setting is so outlandish that it seems like cartoon violence to me. The same holds true for Fallout. Violence exists in these games, but the setting and theme place distance between the player and the violence through use of the context in which the violence takes place.

Not so in Far Cry 2. Running through a realistic, third world nation, blasting away at people with smuggled weapons while searching for malaria meds on a black market, simply isn't something I can enjoy. Certainly I can appreciate the excellent gun play, the open world, the lush jungles, the responsive vehicles. Everything about this screams "This is what Crysis should have been."

But I can't enjoy the game. The setting is, for me, too real. And thus, so is the violence. It seems somehow wrong to actually take pleasure in games such as Far Cry 2 and Spec Ops: The Line. This is admittedly a subjective line, and I am still playing the game in small doses, trying to suspend my disbelief, to place myself in the shoes of an actor performing a role. I might even manage one day. But I wrestle with the immediacy of the violence such a realistic, believable context creates.

I don't seek to draw some imaginary line. To claim that enjoying Crysis is okay "because it has aliens and a Michael Bay story" while enjoying Far Cry 2 is wrong because it lacks aliens and is more Tony Scott (may he rest in peace.) I won' condemn anyone for enjoying Far Cry 2 - its an excellent game. As for me, I have always wondered whether such a personal line existed, and now I think I might have found it.

Has anyone else ever experienced similar feelings? And believe me, I won't condemn anyone who has not. I simply want to foster intelligent discussion on the matter.

[DaftPunk]

This one is new xD

[sinister agent]

It gets worse. Just wait until you're fighting through a check point, having shot a few guys and thrown molotovs around, and run in to hunker down and wait while they run around looking for you.

Then you hear that South African guy you took a potshot at earlier slowly dying somewhere nearby, gasping in pain and saying "I don't want to die. I don't want to die. I wanna go home... I wanna go home...."

Far Cry 2 was so close to being a masterpiece. It's a real shame.

[dnf]

lol, is this for real? im more confortable thinking this is a bad trolling atempt

[dnf]

It gets worse. Just wait until you're fighting through a check point, having shot a few guys and thrown molotovs around, and run in to hunker down and wait while they run around looking for you.

Then you hear that South African guy you took a potshot at earlier slowly dying somewhere nearby, gasping in pain and saying "I don't want to die. I don't want to die. I wanna go home... I wanna go home...."

Far Cry 2 was so close to being a masterpiece. It's a real shame.

Killing african nutjobs in FC2 is just lame. Now killing thirdwordian guys at Max Payne 3 was a huge bloddy fun deal. Too bad about the dumbing down tough... Also, do you guys shoot at dead bodies in FPSs? For me, every fps should have this feature,including gibs(shame on you call of juarez)...

[gundato]

Yeah, for me, Far Cry 2 wasn't too much fun since it was too realistic. It took a long time to drive anywhere and I spent far too much time looking at maps of public transportation :p

But this IS something that has bothered me over the past year or two. The push for "photo realistic" graphics and even more gore has been turning me off.

[Faldrath]

Yeah, I "enjoyed" Far Cry 2 as well - it really does make you feel uncomfortable if you pay attention to what's going on, and that's its main value, I believe. I haven't played Spec Ops yet (just the demo, which I hope isn't very representative of the main game), but those are games that should appear every now and then to remind us of what we actually do in most games.

That being said, everything I read about FC3 suggests it'll throw all of that out of a window, so...

[Berzee]

I see where you're coming from, Blackcompany, but it doesn't affect me that way...I think because (among other reasons) the hyper-aggressiveness of every single person outside the city limits, the way they're able to identify you instantly from miles away and realize in their hearts that the only reason they exist is to try and run you over...gives it a cartoonish "Ohhh computer games" feeling despite the muted, realistic setting.

I'm curious to know how long you've played? I think as you get deeper into the game you start to notice that the role you're playing is equally as absurd as Crysis Man, in a different style. But maybe you've played a lot and not had that happen, I dunno. =)

For me, something like Hitman Blood Money gets a lot closer to the sort of violence that would cause me not to play a game, if violence alone were going to stop me (gore has stopped me before out of squeamishness, but that's another matter). In that game, you can and do kill people who (whatever their many faults) are not currently in a state of murderousness toward you, in settings that are far more plausible than even Far Cry 2. Some of the death animations are right up there on the "aghast" scale with the downed-but-conscious soldiers in Far Cry 2, as well.

[dnf]

Yeah, for me, Far Cry 2 wasn't too much fun since it was too realistic. It took a long time to drive anywhere and I spent far too much time looking at maps of public transportation :p

But this IS something that has bothered me over the past year or two. The push for "photo realistic" graphics and even more gore has been turning me off.

Gore? Where?

[Blackcompany]

Somewhat glad to know I wasn't the only one.

Also, I only played Spec Ops: The Line: The Demo, too. From it I gathered two things:

1. I could never enjoy this game, just because of the context, and
2. it should have been a movie, cause as a game, it sucks

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see The Line as a movie. The story intrigues me. But to take a game that weighty and heavy, and to basically make Gears of War - Middle East Edition, just...didn't sit well with me. On the one hand: dark, violent, a psychological thriller about the effects of killing former comrades whilst cut off from the world. On the other...a game. That's supposed to...be...fun? Great premise, but it didn't for me as a game.

Then again, maybe Faldrath is right. Maybe the manner in which I felt slightly uncomfortable playing this game is a good thing. Maybe that's part of the game's value. Whatever the case, it certainly made me stop and think about playing some Torchlight 2 or even some Runespell or Endless Space for a while. Something much less violent.

[gundato]

I don't know the demo of Spec Ops, but that game is DEFINITELY better as a game. But the entire point of it IS to make you feel uncomfortable. In fact, by using "normal" gameplay, it makes it hit all the harder.

The entire game is about making you uncomfortable in all the right ways. You should oscillate between "Holy crap, this is awesome. Look at that tank explode" to "Crap... there were people in there. And one of my rounds went wide and hurt a civillian. Oh god..."

Spec Ops isn't a "game" so much as an interactive story... that makes you want to never play an FPS again...

[Blackcompany]

I see where you're coming from, Blackcompany, but it doesn't affect me that way...I think because (among other reasons) the hyper-aggressiveness of every single person outside the city limits, the way they're able to identify you instantly from miles away and realize in their hearts that the only reason they exist is to try and run you over...gives it a cartoonish "Ohhh computer games" feeling despite the muted, realistic setting.

I'm curious to know how long you've played? I think as you get deeper into the game you start to notice that the role you're playing is equally as absurd as Crysis Man, in a different style. But maybe you've played a lot and not had that happen, I dunno. =)

For me, something like Hitman Blood Money gets a lot closer to the sort of violence that would cause me not to play a game, if violence alone were going to stop me (gore has stopped me before out of squeamishness, but that's another matter). In that game, you can and do kill people who (whatever their many faults) are not currently in a state of murderousness toward you, in settings that are far more plausible than even Far Cry 2. Some of the death animations are right up there on the "aghast" scale with the downed-but-conscious soldiers in Far Cry 2, as well.

You nailed it.

I am not that far into it yet - only 3or 4 hours - and maybe the outlandishness of the setting hasn't really caught on yet. Didn't take nearly as long to catch on to it in Just Cause 2, but then that game was designed as a playground more than a game.

I will give it some more time over the weekend, see if it hits me. I suspect you are correct and that it probably will do so. In fact, now I think on it...the whole "bandit checkpoint" thing i mildly ridiculous. Right up there with the automatically-hostile bandits of Borderlands and Skyrim, to be honest. Even more ludicrous, in fact, since in this hyper-real setting, how DO they know they should shoot you from so far away?

Good points. I will keep at it, and maybe, just maybe, feeling a little uncomfortable with violence in gaming now and then, at age 33, isn't so bad a thing, really.

[Blackcompany]

I don't know the demo of Spec Ops, but that game is DEFINITELY better as a game. But the entire point of it IS to make you feel uncomfortable. In fact, by using "normal" gameplay, it makes it hit all the harder.

The entire game is about making you uncomfortable in all the right ways. You should oscillate between "Holy crap, this is awesome. Look at that tank explode" to "Crap... there were people in there. And one of my rounds went wide and hurt a civillian. Oh god..."

And now, when Spec Ops goes on sale over the holidays, I think I will grab it up just for this feeling. After the ludicrous violence of SRIII and Borderlands, I think a game that takes violence more seriously might be a welcome change. Especially if the outlandishness of FC2 finally does take hold and discomfort starts to fade.

[sinister agent]

For me, something like Hitman Blood Money gets a lot closer to the sort of violence that would cause me not to play a game, if violence alone were going to stop me (gore has stopped me before out of squeamishness, but that's another matter). In that game, you can and do kill people who (whatever their many faults) are not currently in a state of murderousness toward you, in settings that are far more plausible than even Far Cry 2. Some of the death animations are right up there on the "aghast" scale with the downed-but-conscious soldiers in Far Cry 2, as well.

The first time a civilian picked up a gun and shot at me, I ... well, I died. And laughed appreciatively, because that was unexpected and brilliant. But the second time, I saw him pick it up. And I saw him point it at me. And I shot him first. And I felt terrible.

Now I exploit it - if I have a witness, I toss them a spare gun, and dare them to pick it up.

I also agree with you about Far Cry 2 - the cartoonishly psychotic aggression of absolutely everyone you meet weakens both the gameplay and the "my god what have I done" factor.


A couple of years ago, I was playing (I think) Call of Duty World at War with a then-housemate. It was enjoyable enough, but we came to a bit where we were faced with some German troops who'd surrendered, and were standing in a subway entrance, helpless, while the game equipped us with molotovs and sat there waiting. And I searched the whole level for some way to, y'know, accept the surrender and not bloody execute them, and by the most horrible means possible too.

I was very unhappy about that one, and not in a "ha, a deconstruction of what I'm doing, nice" way. My housemate's view was "yes! Burn the nazi bastards!", which is particularly odd given that he was Irish, so it's not like there was bad blood.

[SirKicksalot]

I always felt there's a surreal vibe to it. It's Heart of Darkness from the perspective of the bad guys.

When I play it as fast and furious as possible, it's messing with my head. It gives me the same feeling as the first 25 minutes of Irreversible. It's exhausting, disgusting, ultraviolent, it makes me nauseous and I love it.

If you take a more relaxed approach I suppose you won't descend into madness so hard and fast. The harder you push, the harder it pushes back.

There is value to be found in negative emotions.

[Casimir Effect]

There's been a good few times in that game where after finding myself purposely wounding enemies to draw their friends out the help them then killing both, I've felt distaste. This isn't the tactic of leaving a body somewhere so a guard walks by and pauses over it long enough for you to take them out silently. This is relying on one entity attempting to help another, then punishing the former for their mercy. That's not something I've found a lot in games.

The hyper-aggression of the enemy does detract somewhat but I always feels it becomes justified quickly enough as you become this bogeyman character. The guards/mercs hear of this asshole who goes around killing and maiming, sniping and stabbing all to further his own agenda. I know I'd shoot first if I was them.

[Berzee]

I will keep at it, and maybe, just maybe, feeling a little uncomfortable with violence in gaming now and then, at age 33, isn't so bad a thing, really.

I think that's a good idea, and I also think...well, I hope my post about the absurdity wasn't an encouragement to just laugh it off as disguised silliness and get on with the shootin'. The shootin' is very good, and it's definitely gamey silliness with the respawning bandits and stuff, but then -- I don't want to color your perceptions overmuch with fanciful speculations, but -- I'll just say that it helps if I pay attention to my character's portrait or his hands every now and then. He's basically a hired gun who accidentally took the stupidest job ever (including Sinbad's job in "First Kid") and can't even back out of it.

It does get pretty interesting in the second act, but for some reason I always fade out around that part (doing good this time though! I will make it through!). Setting aside all of the dubious profundities, nation-wide road rage, and wince-inducing injuries -- there's also the much simpler truth that driving one an ATV up a hidden mountain trail to a hang glider which you sail to an inaccessible hut with diamonds and old sniper supplies that you noticed from the base of a cliff...is also pretty good.

The hyper-aggression of the enemy does detract somewhat but I always feels it becomes justified quickly enough as you become this bogeyman character.

Haha, that's true and I hadn't even quite paid attention to that before. I knew they were talking about me after they heard gunshots, but I didn't consider how long they had been talking about me. =P

Adding to the terrifying spectre that your character must be is the fact that he has that most powerful of all videogame protagonist superpowers -- the ability to spend most of the major cutscenes in various states of near-death, while stubbornly refusing to die from even narrative bullets.

[sinister agent]

There's been a good few times in that game where after finding myself purposely wounding enemies to draw their friends out the help them then killing both, I've felt distaste. This isn't the tactic of leaving a body somewhere so a guard walks by and pauses over it long enough for you to take them out silently. This is relying on one entity attempting to help another, then punishing the former for their mercy. That's not something I've found a lot in games.

I remember in Sniper Elite (the first one), passing through an area, taking shots at a few guards and moving on, then doubling back over old ground after making sure I'd killed everyone in one street. There I ran into a German soldier who was carrying one of the men I'd wounded. Game or no game, I just didn't have the heart to take that shot.

[NathanH]

I can't really say that I've ever cared about anyone in a video game that I hadn't consciously decided I wanted to potentially care about. If you see what I mean.

[Casimir Effect]

Haha, that's true and I hadn't even quite paid attention to that before. I knew they were talking about me after they heard gunshots, but I didn't consider how long they had been talking about me. =P

If you stealth the game you can often hear them talking about you before/outside of firefights, based on your Reputation. The Reputation system being another one of those things I think they really wanted to work on further and instead just sits there doing nothing.

I remember in Sniper Elite (the first one), passing through an area, taking shots at a few guards and moving on, then doubling back over old ground after making sure I'd killed everyone in one street. There I ran into a German soldier who was carrying one of the men I'd wounded. Game or no game, I just didn't have the heart to take that shot.

In the new Sniper Elite you would have beeb exhorted to try for a double dick shot or something, judging from what I've seen of that game.
Those moments in FC2 I'd weigh up if the fight was a necessary one - ie. my objective was in the area - or if I was just doing it for other reasons. If it was the latter then sometimes I'd let the guys live, feeling ever so slightly better about my videogame persona.
Other times I'd let the rescuer throw his buddy over his shoulder and then throw a molotov at them. These times were usually preceded by some prick in a jeep scaring the shit out of me.