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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Sorta like wanting to roll into a car enthusiast's meet with a sweet Challenger that you bought knowing absolutely nothing about pony cars.
    Well, the Challenger LOOKS great. It handling like a boat is just part of the retro experience!

  2. #122
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    This is the kind of thing I had in mind at least from the hardware side. It's an HTPC, but the same principles of maximising the performance potential through compact space can be applied to a mid-tower or lanbox:
    https://www.steigerdynamics.com/prod...-features.aspx

    What I wouldn't hav done - add a $1500 premium over the cost of the parts ... this is definitely targeted at the well heeled.
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  3. #123
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    It's not a viable business model if you take away the "premium"/profit.
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  4. #124
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    It's not a viable business model if you take away the "premium"/profit.
    Rather than do everything by hand, I would partner up with someone in the industrial manufacturing field, so we can figure out a way to have as much as possible done on an automated assembly. That $1500 mostly goes into paying the technicians in charge of doing all the intricate cable management, water cooling setup and leak testing. If you think of it as a web project or graphic design project rather than a PC, it's actually quite cheap (I generally freelance at $200 per hour for CMS or php module development, some photographers I know charge $2500 for 8 hour photo shoots)
    The ideal would be to keep the premium at below $200.
    Last edited by mashakos; 04-01-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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  5. #125
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    All that would do would offset the premium into the costs. You might be able to reduce it a bit because generally unskilled labourers don't realise how much skilled labour is worth, but they'd still have to be trained to assemble PCs which would demand training costs, and wage increases. Plus, you'd need a hardware manufacturer that manufactures everything you want to agree to do this.
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  6. #126
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    All that would do would offset the premium into the costs. You might be able to reduce it a bit because generally unskilled labourers don't realise how much skilled labour is worth, but they'd still have to be trained to assemble PCs which would demand training costs, and wage increases. Plus, you'd need a hardware manufacturer that manufactures everything you want to agree to do this.
    unskilled labour? what?
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  7. #127
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    unskilled labour? what?
    micky was assuming you chose the more cost-effective (in the short term) solution of "Assembly line with human workers"

    Long-term, robots (a truly "automated" assembly line) are more cost effective if you are doing mass production. In the short term, it costs a lot of money to buy the robots and to program them accordingly (not to mention factory space).

    There are stop-gap solutions that involve renting time from more generalized factories, but those cost money (and involve making sure the factory owners get their cut as well).

    Also: As I expected, even Dell uses the "assembly line with human workers" as well.
    http://news.cnet.com/2100-1003_3-5428990.html
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  8. #128
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    micky was assuming you chose the more cost-effective (in the short term) solution of "Assembly line with human workers"

    Long-term, robots (a truly "automated" assembly line) are more cost effective if you are doing mass production. In the short term, it costs a lot of money to buy the robots and to program them accordingly (not to mention factory space).

    There are stop-gap solutions that involve renting time from more generalized factories, but those cost money (and involve making sure the factory owners get their cut as well).

    Also: As I expected, even Dell uses the "assembly line with human workers" as well.
    http://news.cnet.com/2100-1003_3-5428990.html
    putting together a dell craptower wouldn't involve an expensive training program. Building something more complicated requires people with certain skills or a much better training at least, in addition to a lengthy and costly quality control process to make sure that the initial batches are up to scratch.

    There's no easy solution but to me personally that's the only exciting part about setting up a PC brand - exceptional quality (more importantly: performance) with low margins sold at profit for the mass market. Anything else would just be too boring.
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  9. #129
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    putting together a dell craptower wouldn't involve an expensive training program. Building something more complicated requires people with certain skills or a much better training at least, in addition to a lengthy and costly quality control process to make sure that the initial batches are up to scratch.

    There's no easy solution but to me personally that's the only exciting part about setting up a PC brand - exceptional quality (more importantly: performance) with low margins sold at profit for the mass market. Anything else would just be too boring.
    ...

    Okay then, your obsession is now considerably more expensive and even less marketable. Good job?
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  10. #130
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    ...

    Okay then, your obsession is now considerably more expensive and even less marketable. Good job?
    This thread kinda went from "doesn't this already exist?" to "there's a reason this doesn't exist."
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  11. #131
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    This thread kinda went from "doesn't this already exist?" to "there's a reason this doesn't exist."
    Well, I still disagree that you need particularly skilled labor to assemble even a "high performance" PC since it still boils down to "insert tab A into slot B". Mainly because the design and part selection would be done elsewhere.

    But yeah. The problem is that such a product would be targeting "knowledgeable" customers (otherwise you just make a fairly good rig and market it as Alienware or whatever) who could assemble it themselves (or buy the parts and pay someone to assemble it). So you can't charge TOO much on top of it, and your profit margins drop drastically. And for 99%* of the world, they don't need this product. So you can't make up for it in bulk


    *: I pulled that number out of my ass, but it is probably close.
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  12. #132
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    For Christmas, I got a new PC case and my mum took apart and reassembled my PC inside it.

    And she 'aint no PC techy. If you are knowledgeable enough to know why you want a PC over a console, you're probably knowledgeable enough to find out how to build one. It's really not that hard or even time consuming.

  13. #133
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Well, I still disagree that you need particularly skilled labor to assemble even a "high performance" PC since it still boils down to "insert tab A into slot B". Mainly because the design and part selection would be done elsewhere.
    you sir, are BLIND :)



    I don't mind the skepticism. Revolutionary products aren't exactly easy to grasp for the casual onlooker.
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  14. #134
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    You hear that Gundato? How does your casualness like THAT?

    HMMM?!

  15. #135
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    you sir, are BLIND :)



    I don't mind the skepticism. Revolutionary products aren't exactly easy to grasp for the casual onlooker.
    I've worked to assemble "super computers" before (at least, it counted as one five or six years ago :p). It all boils down to "tab A in slot B". All the difficult stuff is figured out LONG before you start assembling it (or an hour before you start fixing it :p)

    From your picture, it looks like two video cards mounted on a mobo, a power supply in the upper right, and a few tubes encasing the cables. Nothing spectacular.

    Seriously dude, you might want to research the topic. First you thought that an "automated assembly line" with robots was a good idea (it isn't due to the high costs). Now you think you need highly trained individuals to hook up a computer.


    The only hard parts to building a computer:
    1. Figuring out what parts to buy. This mostly just involves making sure you have a strong enough power supply and that your ram and processor are compatible with your mobo
    2. Attaching the processor to the mother board. This is the single "hardest" part

    Beyond that, all that is left is:
    1. Hooking everything up, which is almost exclusively "insert tab A into slot B"
    2. Move stuff out of the way to ensure proper airflow (or don't since the tolerances of most of the stuff you would be using are high enough that the cables shouldn't be an issue)
    3. Making sure nothing is exposed so you don't short crap out (again, trivial since all the wires and connectors are insulated)
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  16. #136
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    From your picture, it looks like two video cards mounted on a mobo, a power supply in the upper right, and a few tubes encasing the cables. Nothing spectacular.
    lmao, you don't even know what you're looking at!
    Two radiators
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  17. #137
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Congratulations, you have a water-cooled rig.

    Do you want a cookie?

    Honestly, this shit ain't rocket science.
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  18. #138
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    lmao, you don't even know what you're looking at!
    Two radiators
    Three water blocks
    two pumps
    1/2" water cooling tubing
    single sleeve cables cut to length
    Deepest apologies

    Insert the end of one water cooled pipe into the hole water goes through. screw tightly. Repeat with other end/

    GASP!!! I NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE FOR THAT!!!!


    Seriously mashy, you arent really helping yourself with this.
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  19. #139
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Deepest apologies

    Insert the end of one water cooled pipe into the hole water goes through. screw tightly. Repeat with other end/

    GASP!!! I NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE FOR THAT!!!!


    Seriously mashy, you arent really helping yourself with this.
    again, LMAO!

    Get back to me when you've actually attempted to put together a water cooling loop. Bonus points if you have figured out how to air bleed and leak test the loop in under 24 hours :)
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  20. #140
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    again, LMAO!

    Get back to me when you've actually attempted to put together a water cooling loop. Bonus points if you have figured out how to air bleed and leak test the loop in under 24 hours :)
    I've bullshitted a lot of people in my day. It comes with the territory when folks are paying you for your perceived expertise and rent's coming up.

    But if you're gonna flap your gums about the difficulty of a task, at least know your audience. It's getting kind of insulting.
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