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  1. #41
    Lesser Hivemind Node fiddlesticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Quick question:

    Why is adding a female protagonist "bowing down to the feminists?"
    You clearly don't know anything about real feminists. Here, let me enlighten you.

    It's time we learned the truth about these disgusting creatures!
    Last edited by fiddlesticks; 15-11-2012 at 10:35 PM.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    You clearly don't know anything about real feminists. Here, let me enlighten you.

    It's time we learned the truth about these disgusting creatures!
    Oh man. I forgot about Hark!
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  3. #43
    Network Hub Splynter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Oh man. I forgot about Hark!
    You've forgotten because her updates have been so depressingly sparse lately (well, maybe, I don't presume to know your mind).
    I take photos of space and talk about it sometimes: http://ofspaceandthings.tumblr.com Also, I am making a game for which there is a development log: http://elegythegame.tumblr.com/

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splynter View Post
    You've forgotten because her updates have been so depressingly sparse lately (well, maybe, I don't presume to know your mind).
    Best not to. It gets freaky-deaky up in there.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  5. #45
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    Remember when GTA IV was first shown off and people complained about the weird lighting on characters? Then the game got put back and when it was shown again it looked a little better. GTAV looks like IV but they properly fixed their weird character lighting shaders. There also appear to be more pedestrians and cars around, which was one of my big disappointments with IV. Time's Square, one of the busiest areas in the world had about 20 people in it.

    As for the wonderful feminism debate that's going on, here are my thoughts:

    Most of the exciting criminals in the world are men. And by exciting, I mean bank robbing, hijacking, gang drive by shooting mafia cop killers.

    A female protagonist would have missions where you work as a nurse for 10 years until finally someone notices that mortality is higher on the ward during your shifts. Or shoplifting. Or stabbing an abusive partner. Or working as an accountant and syphoning off cash.

    Simply writing the same old GTA guff but having the avatar be a woman wouldn't really work.

  6. #46
    Network Hub AlonePlusEasyTarget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickSocrates View Post
    A female protagonist would have missions where you work as a nurse for 10 years until finally someone notices that mortality is higher on the ward during your shifts. Or shoplifting. Or stabbing an abusive partner. Or working as an accountant and syphoning off cash.

    Simply writing the same old GTA guff but having the avatar be a woman wouldn't really work.
    Sexist! Put this man to the guillotine!

    Actually, they can take some inspiration from Bonnie or Honey Bunny from Pulp Fiction, just like the always do with the previous protagonists so it's not that unimaginable to include female playable character isn't it? If Trevor can be in this game so can the expy of the aforementioned characters. Especially with the mechanics of changing characters whenever you want (or so they said) it could create and show good dynamics of the partnership between playable characters.

    So it's actually possible to have female protagonist and I think it's a missed opportunity from Rockstar North.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlonePlusEasyTarget View Post
    Sexist! Put this man to the guillotine!

    Actually, they can take some inspiration from Bonnie or Honey Bunny from Pulp Fiction, just like the always do with the previous protagonists so it's not that unimaginable to include female playable character isn't it? If Trevor can be in this game so can the expy of the aforementioned characters. Especially with the mechanics of changing characters whenever you want (or so they said) it could create and show good dynamics of the partnership between playable characters.

    So it's actually possible to have female protagonist and I think it's a missed opportunity from Rockstar North.
    A Bonnie character would be very interesting. Kill Bill also has a fairly interesting cast of female criminals: The Bride, O-Renn Iishi, Elle Driver. Or any of the female cast in Firefly are good as well. It very much is a missed opportunity.

    It also shows lack of imagination. A well written character is interesting despite gender, ethnicity, etc. I feel good female characters are rare because games and movies tend toward stereotypes and tropes.

  8. #48
    Network Hub AlonePlusEasyTarget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binho View Post
    I feel good female characters are rare because games and movies tend toward stereotypes and tropes.
    And most of the good female characters are in adventure games (maybe also because of it's easier to flesh out characters in this kind of games) which are usually potrayed as the protagonist. I guess it's the relaxed nature of the genre or large percentage of the demographics are female so that's why they can afford put female in the lead. But both sandbox and the usual point-click-adventure have something in common, the ability to tell the story through interacting with the world so like I said it's definitely not impossible.
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  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickSocrates View Post
    A female protagonist would have missions where you work as a nurse for 10 years until finally someone notices that mortality is higher on the ward during your shifts. Or shoplifting. Or stabbing an abusive partner. Or working as an accountant and syphoning off cash.
    Oh, I don't know about that. Go down to the local nightclub district in my city and you'll see plenty of females fighting with each other and mouthing off better than most guys, livin' the THUG LYFE BITCHEZ. Better yet, come out on duty with me!* You'll suffer plenty of abuse at the hands of drunk bogan female patients.

    *Personal safety not guaranteed.


    No but in all seriousness, anecdotally of course, I've noticed that females taking on a more "masculine" form of violence and anti-social behaviour seems to be rising. Recently I went out to look after a rave party. We had about 20 or so patients for the entire night (it was a fairly small crowd of only about 800), all of them absurdly intoxicated. 18 female, 2 male. Most of the female patients threatened us, screamed, hurled abuse, and one of them tried to throttle me at one point when I wasn't even doing anything. By comparison out of the two male patients, only one of them threatened me. It's a pattern that seems to be repeating lately, and it's not just people in their late teens or 20s either - I'm seeing it in the 40-50 age bracket too.

    Of course this is just my experience and by no means am I saying this is how the world works and the feminine female is dead, but I don't think that the traditional "softly sweetly sneaky" female killer is the only possibility.

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    The world is upside down,men are becoming more feminine and females more manly.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    The world is upside down,men are becoming more feminine and females more manly.
    How are men becoming more feminine?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlonePlusEasyTarget View Post
    And most of the good female characters are in adventure games (maybe also because of it's easier to flesh out characters in this kind of games) which are usually potrayed as the protagonist. I guess it's the relaxed nature of the genre or large percentage of the demographics are female so that's why they can afford put female in the lead. But both sandbox and the usual point-click-adventure have something in common, the ability to tell the story through interacting with the world so like I said it's definitely not impossible.
    Well, you do make a good point about why it won't happen: pandering to perceived demographics. Look at all the outrage at the mere suggestion of a female GTA protagonist from the Angry Internet Men. Imagine the death threats Rockstar North would get if they actually went through with it.

    Besides, it's not the action, violence or sexism that really puts women off. Anecdotally, my girlfriend's favourite movie is Inglorious Basterds and she enjoyed playing through L.A. Noire with me. Mad Men was quite a hit with women as well, despite the rampant (intentional, integral to the show's message) sexism.

    I think it's the vibe of "boyish" immaturity that puts most girls off. GTA has always felt like it was mainly made for boys, buy boys. Despite there being women on the dev team, and women who enjoy playing it.

    Or am I the only one who got that vibe?

    Back on topic, the footage is looking pretty good though! GTA is one of the few franchises which doesn't feel done to death. Maybe it's because they actually spend time on each iteration. It's worth noting that 3 Mass Effects, 2 Dragon Ages and countless CoD's and MoH's were made between the release of GTA IV and the announcement of V...

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binho View Post
    I think it's the vibe of "boyish" immaturity that puts most girls off. GTA has always felt like it was mainly made for boys, buy boys. Despite there being women on the dev team, and women who enjoy playing it.
    The GTA games prior to IV pretty much were just that. GTA IV went to some lengths to get out of the immaturity of the series (Vice City made a good attempt but still fell short, no less entertaining though) but promptly screwed it up with sledgehammer parodies and "BIG AMERICAN TEES TEES" being thrown around every time things started to get serious. Niko was a fairly good character and at times the game took on a fairly bleak and serious tone... then went and shit in its own nest as if someone went "Guys we've gone three whole minutes without making an immature joke, quick, write one in!"

    On the other hand, Red Dead Redemption didn't seem to suffer from the same issue. If GTA V moves more in that direction, it might turn it around. But the series is so focused on violence, crime, and dicking around that I doubt it'll shake it.

  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    How are men becoming more feminine?


  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binho View Post
    GTA is one of the few franchises which doesn't feel done to death. Maybe it's because they actually spend time on each iteration. It's worth noting that 3 Mass Effects, 2 Dragon Ages and countless CoD's and MoH's were made between the release of GTA IV and the announcement of V...
    GTA is not just a video game.

    Every game ends, but GTA goes on.

    The justice turns and we turn with it.

    Cops disappear, gangs take over.

    But when I go, there Rockstar is - my library, my system, my achievement.

    GTA 5, Inevitable.

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    That's prepubescent, not feminine

    edit: to be honest he looks a lot like James Dean in this picture. James Dean that's been driving around with the top down.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    I said men, not boys.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  18. #58
    Lesser Hivemind Node DigitalSignalX's Avatar
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    After the horrible PC launch of 4, I feel Rockstar has some good will to earn back for the franchise. Even today, top end gaming rigs struggle to run it with all settings on max, but they have finally allowed us to get rid of the social club. Not even to mention the snub for Red Dead Redemption. I love GTA4, and I'm optimistic for 5, but they better get their ducks in a row on launch or their credibility will suffer even more.
    All times I have enjoyed greatly, have suffered greatly, both with those that loved me, and alone.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSignalX View Post
    After the horrible PC launch of 4, I feel Rockstar has some good will to earn back for the franchise. Even today, top end gaming rigs struggle to run it with all settings on max,
    I dont know if any of you have heard of this. Someone from Hong Kong emailed Rockstar for high spec requirement issue, and Rockstar OFFICIALLY replied that they simply did not expect us to play it with the currently affordable PC hardware back then, that it required a future PC of at least 2 year advancement to run satisfactorily.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    And, thus, a customer support email became the company's abusive business plan.

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