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  1. #21
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    Well...that....was emotional. Christ....

    Kad feels very much likes he's been through the ringer over the last hour and a half.....thoughts below...

    I went with the lose the arm option and all the 'really? you sure?' pauses made me think that perhaps it wasn't the best idea after all, but I thought I'd be committed, plus there was the *faint* chance that it might of meant Lee would make it (although I wasn't under any illusions that things would remotely pay out).

    Fortunately under like a lot of you do gooders I didn't have Ben holding me back (he was walker food last episode), but I did (needlessly) lose Kenny when I dropped Clems Walkie Talkie into a hole and he had to dive in to save Christa who was trying to recover it. There was an option to say ignore it, and I'm kind of curious as to how that would of played out, though I doubt that impacts on the final sequence and invariably you still end up getting separated from the rest of them.

    I thought the face off was great with the mystery man, though I knew what to expect from the bowling bag. Wasn't sure what to make of his 'raise a family' comment (was he saying what I think he was saying?), but sure wish I had the other arm to choke the bastard faster.

    Kind of pissed at the save game bug issue in that I stopped Clem from eating the meat at the farm, but somehow he believed that she had (continuity error maybe?).

    I told Clem to stay high and look out for Christa & Ovid. The post credit scene had her wandering through a field and spotting two figures walking in the distance, but it wasn't clear whether it was them, though they clearly noticed Clem (which was kind of annoying).

    I was kind of hoping that Molly might re-appear in this episode as she seemed like an interesting character to take over from. Though I guess that would of been too much of a Deus ex machina moment (still would of been cool).


    Anyway. Frankly pretty damn outstanding job by Telltale. Bar a couple of dodgy action sequences in the third game (I suspect you know where I all mean) I can't really fault it as a game, especially in terms of the narrative drive. Really do hope that they sell enough copies so that a second season is viable because I honestly prefer it to either the comics or the TV series. Great voice acting all the way as well.

    I'm gonna miss Lee big time. I hope that dude gets some good job offers out of this as he has a great hero voice

    Replicants don't cry, however I did find my optic lubrication system malfunctioned a bit towards the end there.

    CLEMENTINE!!!
    Last edited by Kadayi; 21-11-2012 at 10:02 PM.

  2. #22
    Network Hub Protoman's Avatar
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    My choices:
    First of all, I cut off my arm. Cutting my arm actually kind of felt better, because there was just this extreme suspense about whether or not it would work. I was actually kind of surprised it didn't. I saved Ben, which, after kenny's death scene, didn't seem like the best idea. Although I think Kenny stayed to help Ben because he didn't want Ben to die hating him. Or something like that. One of the most sad scenes in the game for me... And I went on the sign first too (does that change anything?) I actually didn't steal from the car, so when I saw it I didn't know what to think. Of course, he's just insane, so he STILL called me a thief, even after I explained that I didn't do it... "The story is tailored to how you play" my ass. Clementine killed the stranger, and in the end I had clementine shoot me.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Well that was good stuff.

    My choices:

    Cut off my arm (made the mouse awkward to use!) having not seen any of it I wasn't sure if it would help or not but I thought at least it would make the others trust me for longer.

    In the previous episode I'd regretted persuading both Ben and Kenny to come, I knew it was going to end up in trouble. Felt that Ben's speech when he cracked at Kenny was really rather moving and in it's own way a worthwhile send off considering what was about to happen to him. Actually would be interested to here from anyone who was on their own or just had Kenny with them (was that an option?). What goes on then?

    Would be intrigued to know what happens if you say that Omid and Crista should cross the sign first. I assume it's a null choice and that they both get over and you are forced to climb down from the same side (making the whole bit a little pointless but they need a contrivance to get you on your own and they might as well make you feel like it was down to you somehow).

    I have to say I'm embarrassed to note that I didn't see the head in the bag until after the stranger was dead. Having not killed him (I presume due to the lack of arm and a slight pause thinking "do I really want to throttle what is an essentially innocent man that my group drove over the edge (not me, I didn't steal)?" I actually had a moment of thinking "fuck, what have I done I've made Clem an actual killer. A 9 year old girl. I'm a terrible person." Normally like Buemba above I'd say I'd rather they didn't make him absolutely crazy but in this case it was a bit of a relief in that the guy was a danger.

    I made Clem shoot me. It was horrible but I'd done it for Duck (and as Lee pointed out, the girl at the motel). I did take some time over the choice but she said she didn't want me as one of them so I took her at her word. I felt simultaneously terrible yet oh so proud of her.


    So what to say about the series? Great narrative, some fantastic characters (one of the few flaws was not enough Omid!). Obviously the choices are for the most part irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but they do affect the journey their, your feelings towards other characters (and there's towards you) and the referencing back makes the thing feel a whole lot more . . . "realistic" isn't the word I'm looking for but you know what I mean. It has done the illusion of choice far better than a lot of other games. It did what the Mass Effect games failed to do and didn't allow you to "game" the system, any attempts to do so would still lead to negative consequences that would feel like your fault. Indeed, me having Kenny along was perhaps an example of this. I appealed to family to make him come (I think he would have refused otherwise) but bearing in mind Lee's relationship with him (I kind of liked him but the two of them hadn't always seen eye to eye), I should probably have just let him make his escape but no, I wanted to have all the people, because that's best right? I'm glad that a game has had the balls to do this, I've been wishing it would happen more often for a while. Plus I'm really glad they had the option to turn off the notifications of how comments would make characters feel, as this was one of the few things I thought Alpha Protocols conversation system did wrong.

    Conclusion, I love this sort of "choose your own adventure" type bigger budget interactive fiction. The "game" or "non-game" debate doesn't concern me too much. Indeed the three games I've played that have done this best (this, the aforementioned Alpha Protocol and Masq) either have very little game (this), no game (Masq) or work in spite of the game (Alpha Protocol). That said I think what I'd really like to see is a good action adventure with this type of narrative structure and willingness to make the player feel horrible at times.
    Last edited by Lambchops; 21-11-2012 at 11:39 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    So what to say about the series? Great narrative, some fantastic characters (one of the few flaws was not enough Omid!). Obviously the choices are for the most part irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but they do affect the journey their, your feelings towards other characters (and there's towards you) and the referencing back makes the thing feel a whole lot more . . . "realistic" isn't the word I'm looking for but you know what I mean. It has done the illusion of choice far better than a lot of other games. It did what the Mass Effect games failed to do and didn't allow you to "game" the system, any attempts to do so would still lead to negative consequences that would feel like your fault. Indeed, me having Kenny along was perhaps an example of this. I appealed to family to make him come (I think he would have refused otherwise) but bearing in mind Lee's relationship with him (I kind of liked him but the two of them hadn't always seen eye to eye), I should probably have just let him make his escape but no, I wanted to have all the people, because that's best right? I'm glad that a game has had the balls to do this, I've been wishing it would happen more often for a while. Plus I'm really glad they had the option to turn off the notifications of how comments would make characters feel, as this was one of the few things I thought Alpha Protocols conversation system did wrong.

    Conclusion, I love this sort of "choose your own adventure" type bigger budget interactive fiction. The "game" or "non-game" debate doesn't concern me too much. Indeed the three games I've played that have done this best (this, the aforementioned Alpha Protocol and Masq) either have very little game (this), no game (Masq) or work in spite of the game (Alpha Protocol). That said I think what I'd really like to see is a good action adventure with this type of narrative structure and willingness to make the player feel horrible at times.
    Well said lambs. Couldn't agree more (also a huge AP & Masq fan here). I kind of feel a bit sorry for the writer of Spec OP:The line because tbh I thought that was a well written game, Vs most of the forgettable dross this year but unfortunately it kind of pales in comparison to TWD which I'm thinking is certainly the most impactful title I've played this year.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Haven't played Spec Ops yet. might pick it up if it's going cheap when the Christmas sales roll around.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    So was I the only person who had Christa slice the arm off?

    Also, anyone else get this?

    The Medallion of the Imperial Psychopath, a Napoleon: Total War AAR
    For the Emperor!, a Total War: Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai AAR

  7. #27
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    Yeah it did the same with the earlier episodes I found as well (though later on they appeared correctly). Amazing how divided the votes were that time (even if we can't see them).

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    I also had that person do that thing.

    And the messed up statistics screen seems to happen when it's sparkling new. I got it the first time, before I replayed the last scene.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Also, reading more comments above, was it would seem that not many people were saved from the Stranger by Clem shooting him in the head. So much for that hidden meat cleaver.
    The Medallion of the Imperial Psychopath, a Napoleon: Total War AAR
    For the Emperor!, a Total War: Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai AAR

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumarole View Post
    So was I the only person who had Christa slice the arm off?

    Nope, I did that too. I didn't know you could do it yourself.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Well, I'll be honest, i found the last episode completely dissatisfying, and i loved everything else up to that point. I guess I just felt railroaded.
    Spoils follow I guess
    It wasnt even dying, or having to leave clem alone it was all the "xyz will happen NO MATTER WHAT" things and scenes were you are literally given 1 choice, that's not choice.

    Its charm started to run out by the roof where you realised the 1 thing you could do, and it continued from there.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 22-11-2012 at 01:25 AM.
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  12. #32
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    FUUUUU-

    Chopped Lee's arm off. It might've cured him, although it was a while ago. It didn't work.
    Since I picked them up I regretted saving Crista and Omid. But, this episode, I realised I needed them.
    Ben was dead and deserves to be dead, glad to hear he gets his comeuppance if you let him survive the clocktower.

    Kenny didn't want to come with me, but got locked in the boathouse. Died for Crista.

    I liked the talking part in the attic. Although why Kenny let Crista down most of the bottle I'll never know. Foetal alcohol syndrome much?

    Got separated from Omid and Crista at the sign. Lee's one man army was nice, although I died on the last one and had to do the whole thing again.

    Tried making the Stranger understand that I did what was necessary for the group. But apparently I'm a monster for leaving Lily out to dry and stealing his loot.
    Then he started talking to the head and I was all "Fuck that yo". Nearly failed the choke QTE but Clem shot him.

    Had Clem meet Crista and Omid at the train station.
    Had her handcuff the walker, go for the gun first, then shoot Lee when it was dealt with. Reasoning: She might have to do it again later. Better she learns now than become Kenny later.

    Wondering if anyone actually sent O/C for the boat. Or if you can finish without them/ start the chapter without Kenny.


    -UUUCK.

    Is anything else of TellTale's this nice a story?
    I play a fair few visual novels, this is probably the best one so far.
    Last edited by Barnox; 22-11-2012 at 01:50 AM.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Well, I'll be honest, i found the last episode completely dissatisfying, and i loved everything else up to that point. I guess I just felt railroaded.
    Spoils follow I guess
    It wasnt even dying, or having to leave clem alone it was all the "xyz will happen NO MATTER WHAT" things and scenes were you are literally given 1 choice, that's not choice.

    Its charm started to run out by the roof where you realised the 1 thing you could do, and it continued from there.
    A degree of premeditation doesn't make agency irrelevant. You're railroaded into predetermined outcomes all the time in real life.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKicksalot View Post
    A degree of premeditation doesn't make agency irrelevant. You're railroaded into predetermined outcomes all the time in real life.
    Exactly, it's still a story with a definitive path. You get a degree of control but there are some things entirely outside of your control. Attempting to do a more dynamic story would result in far too many plot branches which would either make the next season far too complex (for them to effectively work on and deliver episodically) or result in pruning/declaring one path to be the canonical one, eliminating choice.

    I'm guessing Helio found it dissatisfying because it marks the end of season 1 where all the plot points get tied up, similar to how ME3's decisions ultimately boiled down to the war readiness score (except without the adequate plot resolution). But that's the point of the final episode!

  15. #35
    Network Hub Protoman's Avatar
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    On the subject of choice:
    I understand why they did this stuff, but episode 3 still gets to me. For one, they shouldn't have killed Carly/Doug that early. I chose to save Carly and she then proceeded to get like 3 lines total in episode 2 and die halfway through episode 3, in an event I had both no opportunity to stop and was really out of character for Lily. It just didn't feel good, partially because I felt like the writers were going "I have to write double the lines whenever Carly talks? Screw it, let's kill her..." and also because that just didn't seem like something lily would do. It was just stupid. Next we get to the train and, of course... Lily asks me to run away with her! So I go outside to grab clementine and get outta there, and THAT WHORE TAKES OFF WITHOUT ME! At least make Kenny go in and kill her or something, ffs, Lily just had this sudden personality cataclysm where she acted like a dick to everyone despite how nice you were to her. Other than that one bit, I was fine with the way the plot moved.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    So what, we just expect a logic tree prune every series? Down to 3 to 5 functionally identical endings? I'd sooner series were unconnected than that trapped.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  17. #37
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    I'm guessing Helio found it dissatisfying because it marks the end of season 1 where all the plot points get tied up, similar to how ME3's decisions ultimately boiled down to the war readiness score (except without the adequate plot resolution). But that's the point of the final episode!
    I'd say the big flaw with ME3 was that they tried to make a multiple choice ending out of what should of been a linear one (your mission is to go to mount doom and throw the ring into the fire), by tacking on a multiple choice decision at the end in an unsatisfactory fashion.

    As regards the narrowing of choice with this episode. I'd say there's generally only ever been one way to solve most of the game play puzzles through out the series. Certainly they've been slightly more convoluted in earlier episodes, however I think half the point was to put emphasis on the fact that you're really in a tight spot and that there's no going back.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    Nope, I did that too. I didn't know you could do it yourself.
    Yeah likewise. Seemed like the most sensible way to do things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnox View Post
    FUUUUU-

    Had her handcuff the walker, go for the gun first, then shoot Lee when it was dealt with. Reasoning: She might have to do it again later. Better she learns now than become Kenny later.

    I had Lee cuff himself and had her get the keys first. I thought she might only have the chance to get one before the walker freed itself and partially for her (she needs the keys to get out) and partially a streak of selfishness in Lee (if he's going to turn he doesn't want to hurt anyone). Retrospectively this was daft as she could have just grabbed the gun and shot the walker, but there was no guarantee there was bullets and I didn't fancy forcing her to mash Lee's head in with the bat in the same way she admirably dealt with the walker when it did get loose (at which stage I was seriously regretting being a handcuffed one armed man!).
    Last edited by Lambchops; 22-11-2012 at 08:14 AM.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    So what, we just expect a logic tree prune every series? Down to 3 to 5 functionally identical endings? I'd sooner series were unconnected than that trapped.
    If they had a legion of artists and designers and lots and lots and lots of money you might be able to do that, but otherwise there has to be some point of convergence. It's a game, it's still bound by its own rules and constraints, it isn't real life where you can make up your own decision and have the world react accordingly. Even then in real life plenty of decisions don't really change how things progress, but it may change a few minor things. How do you think they should have managed this, bearing in mind that it costs money to have actors do things and animators turn it into stuff on the screen.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    They could have had 5 distinct post credit scenes, based on how you raised her and circumstances.

    No? Sure that'd meant much extra art
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