Rab Florence talking out of his arse re: Industry vets killing Kickstarter

[Kadayi]

I'm not sure what's more hilarious about the rant. The patronising assumption that us gamer's are somehow all sheeple and that we're all going to blindly back every veteran kickstarter that going without assessment, or that the money would somehow magically end up going to more "worthy" projects if not to them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have a secret kickstarter fund I put money into every month. I only back projects I'm interested in (so far the only one being Project eternity). Albeit I've bought many of Mr Molyneux's games over the years and on the whole have enjoyed them (flaws and all) I honestly have zero interest in god games these days so I'm not feeling inclined to fund his Kickstarter. Fond memories of Elite, but there was nothing of any substance to David Braben's Kickstarter pitch and that's not enough to make me feel like opening my wallet.

[deano2099]

that the money would somehow magically end up going to more "worthy" projects if not to them.

Yeah I found that a bit weird. Raises an interesting question though. I for one would love to see Steam's monthly year-on-year sales for the few 'kickstarter boom' months. I'd imagine the effect was noticeable. And the Kickstartery-ness of Greenlight (opening it up to projects in development) can't have been an accident.

[Mohorovicic]

I'm not sure what's more hilarious about the rant. The patronising assumption that us gamer's are somehow all sheeple and that we're all going to blindly back every veteran kickstarter that going without assessment

Why is it hilarious - is it one of those "It's funny because it's true!" moments?

[Jesus_Phish]

Why is it hilarious - is it one of those "It's funny because it's true!" moments?

But it's not. Not every vet has been met with a carpet made of money and fans cheering. If that was true then Project GODUS wouldn't still be sitting at 33% of it's target. And the rest of Kadayi's statement which you've snipped out is also true, the vets aren't taking money away from "worthy" indie upstarts. The indie upstarts are proposing some boring games that people aren't interested in because they can already get them on iOS.

I backed Maia because it sounds good. I didn't back GODUS because it doesn't sound good. I backed Eternity because it sounds great, I didn't back "generic fantasy old school rogue like 8 bit retro isometric dwarf fortress game" because it sounded terrible regardless of it apparently having some guys who made old school games back in the day. I backed Wasteland because it sounded good, see the pattern here?

[Mohorovicic]

GODUS has 25 days to go, Molyneux is crazy, I snipped the rest because I didn't care about it, and congratulations you are the 0.01% who uses his head when making purchasing decisions.

No, wait a sec - what was your Steam backlog again?

[Jesus_Phish]

GODUS has 25 days to go, Molyneux is crazy, I snipped the rest because I didn't care about it, and congratulations you are the 0.01% who uses his head when making purchasing decisions.

No, wait a sec - what was your Steam backlog again?

So you believe that if we weren't all backing the Double Fine Adventures and Wasteland 2s of the world, we'd be putting all that money into small indie kickstarters? If it wasn't for the DFA and Wasteland 2 being on KS in the first place, the majority of us would have never backed anything on kickstarter and some people wouldn't have even heard of Kickstarter.

I doubt very strongly that I would ever have backed Neckro if I didn't back Double Fine, because without Double Fine I wouldn't have found it. And quite possibly they wouldn't have gone to KS, but perhaps launched their own fund drive on their website by selling beta access and early keys, like what the guys behind Amnesia did.

[gundato]

All of you are posers. I am a REAL hip kickstartery man because I learned about the site* with the Order of the Stick reprint drive. Nyeah!

Seriously though. Is it even possible for there to be a polite and orderly discussion on these boards without flames and personal attacks?


*: Actually, I learned about it from the full-game version of that flash game where you go back in time to fight the crab monster thing with a super beam gun. But that game flopped horribly and I forgot about it by the time I saw an account in my Keepass for the OOTS reprint drive.

[ColOfNature]

No. You numpty.

[Kadayi]

So you believe that if we weren't all backing the Double Fine Adventures and Wasteland 2s of the world, we'd be putting all that money into small indie kickstarters?

Indeed it's a completely absurd assumption. Also I'm not entirely sure I even like the idea of this kick it forward thing either. It sounds like welfare for indies. Kickstarter devs should donate 5% of their profits to other kickstarters? All very worthy, but wouldn't they be better off using that money to fund their own games instead? Makes a lot more sense to me, Vs finding themselves back on kickstarter again.

[ColOfNature]

Why "welfare for indies"? Why not "fostering the community that helped you to achieve your dream"?

[fiddlesticks]

I don't know why we expect the likes of Molyneux to do so.

To be fair, Molyneux himself is responsible for a lot of these expectations. He enjoys talking at length about his new games and the innovative features they possess. It leads to people becoming excited and then inevitably being let down when the finished product doesn't match the hype it created. If Molyneux was more restrained he wouldn't generate nearly as much cynicism, but neither would he be considered such a big figure in the industry, not these days anyway.

[Kadayi]

Why "welfare for indies"? Why not "fostering the community that helped you to achieve your dream"?

Community? Achieve your dream? You have been drinking the Kool-aid.

[ColOfNature]

I'm as cynical and misanthropic as the next man. I was just suggesting an alternative way of interpreting the Kick It Forward concept.

[Kadayi]

I'm as cynical and misanthropic as the next man. I was just suggesting an alternative way of interpreting the Kick It Forward concept.

Half the point of kickstarter is it's about crowdsourcing interest. If there's not enough genuine interest in a project to fund it then tbh, it's probably better off not making its target.

[ColOfNature]

But if someone who has successfully had something Kickstarted is interested in a project, why shouldn't they put some of the profit from theirs back into Kickstarter? There's no requirement that they should support any particular project, or even type of project. Pledging to the community (and there is quite a thriving little community building up around Kickstarter, however you feel about it) to give something back is, if nothing else, a nice gesture and likely to engender some goodwill - which isn't going to hurt your pitch.

[deano2099]

GODUS has 25 days to go

Thing is, like I said earlier, you can't assume the target set for GODUS is the actual amount of money Molyneux wanted. I'm almost sure he expected to hit the target in a week and follow-up with a plethora of stretch goals.

But if someone who has successfully had something Kickstarted is interested in a project, why shouldn't they put some of the profit from theirs back into Kickstarter?

On top of the 10% they already paid from their pledges?

[ColOfNature]

Well, not directly back to Kickstarter. Put some of their profit into backing worthy projects, maybe help the next round of hopefuls get their chance too. I think it's a nice gesture, is all.

[Lambchops]

I'm quite confused by that tumblr. It says it's a "fictional personal blog" but clearly contains a lot of Rab's actual opinions (love of Dark Souls and God Hand).

I can only assume he's going for the "exaggerated version of himself" thing like Matt LeBlanc in Extras. Which I guess is the only time that Rab Florence will be compared to Matt LeBlanc.

As for Kickstarter I backed DFA because I really wanted to see a new adventure game from Schafer and he has a good track record. I didn't back Molyneux because he has a track record of under delivering and I didn't back Braben because I never played Elite back in the day. I don't really think these devs are subverting Kickstarter though, as long as an indie has a good idea and manages to get some traction for it then they've always got a decent chance of making the money they need via Kickstarter.

[Kadayi]

But if someone who has successfully had something Kickstarted is interested in a project, why shouldn't they put some of the profit from theirs back into Kickstarter?

I don't have a problem with that. It's more the idea that they should be obliged to. That neither Braben or Molyneux have signed up to kick it forward is somehow a black mark against their characters is kind of lame.

[b0rsuk]

While Maia is not truly innovative (so far), it uses old and known elements in interesting ways. It's not just Dungeon Keeper in a different setting. The sci-fi alien planet setting really makes sense for this kind of game and provides additional challenges. Besides, there are few games which are actually hard SF. So in this way, it is very new. It's not a simple rehash.

Godus will most likely be funded, but I'm happy that people are skeptical about Molyneux and are questioning his capabilities and dedication to released games. He gets a reality check. It's not going to be massively overfunded.

I think "Kickstarter fatigue" is much smaller than people make it out to be. KS is not just remakes. Games like FTL are not remakes, but get overfunded. I especially love the fact that KS reverses the usual backwards mechanic: "Let's make a sequel with the first game's money." This old rule is as stupid as Peter's Principle ("Let's promote this guy to a new position because he was good at previous position"), which makes employees in coroporations end up on positions where they're incompetent or average, at best. In some ways KS is bad because it's not even preorder. In others, it's great because gamers themselves have the final say what is getting made. In developer-publisher model, they decide which game will get a sequel.