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  1. #121
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    That is absolute utter crap. So many advertisement campaigns go the total opposite way of telling people what the product or service is about.

    Guinness are well known for having ads that have essentially nothing to do with their drink, which are much more known for being weird and cinematic and eye catching, and would have their logo right at the end. What does and irish drink have to do with the image of a surfing wave turning into horses? Nothing, but you're going to stop and look at it if you see it. Tells you nothing of the taste of the drink, the type of people who drink it.

    The United Colours of Benetton ran years worth of campaigns that had absolutely nothing to do with their clothes, but would have their logo on the billboard. What does a new born (and I mean just born) baby have to do with chinos? Nothing. But you've seen it and you'll remember the ad and remember the company.

    Apple ads tell you almost nothing about what you're getting, most of the time they're going to say something like "It's arrived" and show the product. How much memory will I get with the new generation iPad? The ads on tv aren't going to tell me, but I might wander by an Apple store and go in to enquire, only to have one of their sales people sell me the wonders of owning an iPad.

    So no, the GTA V ad doesn't fail because it doesn't get directly to the point of "This is a video game in which you will steal cars that handle like shopping trolleys and shoot people and eat hot dogs to regain health and slowly move from one island of missions to another island of missions". Because that would be a crap trailer. But it does tell you this is a story that you might be interested in, buy our game!
    Hmm. I agree that's how it's done. I'm not convinced it works. I mean ... there's some sound psychology behind "awareness first, details second" ... but if you fail to condition the audience toward anything except sheer recognition as so many stupid advertisments do ... well, I'm still waiting for advertisers to realize that even the lowest common denominator isn't going to buy their crap just because some weird-ass add involving sumo-wrestlers and lemons and random crap tried to subliminally suggest they buy it. I hope they don't ... ineffective, short, sometimes amusingly surreal adds for products I don't care about and never feel any more or less inclined to buy? I certainly prefer those in the middle of my TV show than informercial-style stuff. Even if the latter does better to actually sell a product through more effective manipulation methods.
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  2. #122
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    That is absolute utter crap. So many advertisement campaigns go the total opposite way of telling people what the product or service is about.
    And how many of them are actually successful? Can you count them on more than one hand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Guinness are well known for having ads that have essentially nothing to do with their drink, which are much more known for being weird and cinematic and eye catching, and would have their logo right at the end. What does and irish drink have to do with the image of a surfing wave turning into horses? Nothing, but you're going to stop and look at it if you see it. Tells you nothing of the taste of the drink, the type of people who drink it.
    When was the last time you saw that ad though? They've taken a much more direct "We have a drink that you'd probably like to have" approach recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Apple ads tell you almost nothing about what you're getting, most of the time they're going to say something like "It's arrived" and show the product. How much memory will I get with the new generation iPad? The ads on tv aren't going to tell me, but I might wander by an Apple store and go in to enquire, only to have one of their sales people sell me the wonders of owning an iPad.
    Those are poor commercials, but at least they actually make it clear what type of product they're selling: a tablet. They're bad commercials because they only work for people who already know what the iPad is, but they're awful at attracting possible new buyers. And that's what they need if they want to keep shareholders happy so don't expect this strategy to stay for long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    So no, the GTA V ad doesn't fail because it doesn't get directly to the point of "This is a video game in which you will steal cars that handle like shopping trolleys and shoot people and eat hot dogs to regain health and slowly move from one island of missions to another island of missions". Because that would be a crap trailer. But it does tell you this is a story that you might be interested in, buy our game!
    And that's all it says - there's a story but nothing else. If I didn't know what GTA was already I'd think it was a new animated movie. It's good for building hype only with people who already know the product, and that's not good advertising. If it works it's only because they've garnered such a large cult following like Apple, not because they're showing an enticing game. And that's not going to work in the long run because only going after your previous customers doesn't please shareholders. You have to attract new ones.
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  3. #123
    Lesser Hivemind Node Gorzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    And how many of them are actually successful? Can you count them on more than one hand?
    Many, on this day an age a sense of curiosity can be much more effective than a blunt explanation. If somebody feels compelled to find out what something is, then it'll be better than just telling them.

  4. #124
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    And how many of them are actually successful? Can you count them on more than one hand?
    I remember all those ad campaigns better than any "regular" ad campaign for something like McDonalds burger of the month.

    When was the last time you saw that ad though? They've taken a much more direct "We have a drink that you'd probably like to have" approach recently.
    FYI - Guinness' latest ad can be viewed here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URxLYupra5s If you can tell me what that directly has to do with "we have a drink that you'd probably like to have" you can have an internet hi-five or internet cookie.

    Those are poor commercials, but at least they actually make it clear what type of product they're selling: a tablet. They're bad commercials because they only work for people who already know what the iPad is, but they're awful at attracting possible new buyers. And that's what they need if they want to keep shareholders happy so don't expect this strategy to stay for long.
    So GTA V doesn't make it clear it's a video game? And people don't already know what GTA is? Come off it.

    And that's all it says - there's a story but nothing else. If I didn't know what GTA was already I'd think it was a new animated movie. It's good for building hype only with people who already know the product, and that's not good advertising. If it works it's only because they've garnered such a large cult following like Apple, not because they're showing an enticing game. And that's not going to work in the long run because only going after your previous customers doesn't please shareholders. You have to attract new ones.
    Here's what you're not seeing. The GTA V trailer has launched, mostly on websites. Most people who see it are going to be visiting those sites. They get talking, they share it around, it makes it way out of the main gaming websites and into some other news sites. Then Rockstar send out GTA V posters around the world. They might even do something like put a massive one up in Times Square and suddenly FOX news are talking about them at prime time. Now everyone and their grandmother has heard about the game. Because everyone will call it a game, because it will be advertised as a game, as it is being advertised as a game, by a games company, making games, for games consoles, which play games. My mother, whose nearly 60 and was one of those people who thought moving the NES controller up would make Mario jump knows what GTA is. My little nephew, whose 8, knows what GTA is. He now knows there's a new one coming out. Why? Because there's adverts for it all over the bloody place. If my brother was to buy him that game, he wouldn't be a repeating customer.

    Look at the most recent CoD BLOPS 2 ad, with all those famous people in it. There's a version which shows no gameplay, but its loud, its fast, its got Robert Downie Jnr in it in a bad CGI jet fighter and its for CoD BLOPS 2. And it's everywhere. Why? To get people talking more and more about CoD BLOPS 2, a game that was already going to sell a million trillion squillion copies, so that more people will get caught up in the hype and just buy it. People who get caught up in hype tend not to think about buying things.

  5. #125
    every time this discussion comes up I have the urge to scream from the mountaintops READ THIS
    http://www.whatgamesare.com/game.html
    http://www.whatgamesare.com/2011/12/...me-making.html

    This guy has it fuckin' nailed down.

  6. #126
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Guinness are well known for having ads that have essentially nothing to do with their drink, which are much more known for being weird and cinematic and eye catching, and would have their logo right at the end. What does and irish drink have to do with the image of a surfing wave turning into horses? Nothing, but you're going to stop and look at it if you see it. Tells you nothing of the taste of the drink, the type of people who drink it.
    Guinness does not need to advertise. Who the hell doesn't know what Guinness tastes like or the types of people who drink it? Its ads are, thus, basically just goofing off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Apple ads tell you almost nothing about what you're getting, most of the time they're going to say something like "It's arrived" and show the product. How much memory will I get with the new generation iPad? The ads on tv aren't going to tell me, but I might wander by an Apple store and go in to enquire, only to have one of their sales people sell me the wonders of owning an iPad.
    Apple aren't selling products. They're selling self-image. Thus, they show snazzy 20-somethings being snazzy. The products themselves are unimportant.
    Last edited by Nalano; 30-11-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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  7. #127
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I remember all those ad campaigns better than any "regular" ad campaign for something like McDonalds burger of the month.
    Remembering the ad and buying the product/service it's for are two very different things.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    FYI - Guinness' latest ad can be viewed here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URxLYupra5s If you can tell me what that directly has to do with "we have a drink that you'd probably like to have" you can have an internet hi-five or internet cookie.
    The last one I saw was more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6e0N6c4K3k

    Admittedly, I don't watch much TV.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    So GTA V doesn't make it clear it's a video game? And people don't already know what GTA is? Come off it.
    You're becoming really good at missing the point completely. I'd give you a gold star if they had them for that since you want to get snippy.

    Here I'll bold the letters for you. The problem is it only works for people who already know what GTA is. It doesn't attract any new customers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Here's what you're not seeing. The GTA V trailer has launched, mostly on websites. Most people who see it are going to be visiting those sites. They get talking, they share it around, it makes it way out of the main gaming websites and into some other news sites. Then Rockstar send out GTA V posters around the world. They might even do something like put a massive one up in Times Square and suddenly FOX news are talking about them at prime time. Now everyone and their grandmother has heard about the game. Because everyone will call it a game, because it will be advertised as a game, as it is being advertised as a game, by a games company, making games, for games consoles, which play games. My mother, whose nearly 60 and was one of those people who thought moving the NES controller up would make Mario jump knows what GTA is. My little nephew, whose 8, knows what GTA is. He now knows there's a new one coming out. Why? Because there's adverts for it all over the bloody place. If my brother was to buy him that game, he wouldn't be a repeating customer.
    Again, that's only preaching to the choir. It's only talking to people who already know the product and most likely want it. It's meaningless to anyone who doesn't know what it already is. Fox News knows what GTA is because they reported all about the third one allowing the player to kill hookers. Your mother knows because she's probably played the first two and knows the name. Your nephew knows what it is because he's probably played them. It works like a charm for people who are already in the know, but no one else. Yes it works now, but it probably won't in the future if they want to attract a mass of new players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Look at the most recent CoD BLOPS 2 ad, with all those famous people in it. There's a version which shows no gameplay, but its loud, its fast, its got Robert Downie Jnr in it in a bad CGI jet fighter and its for CoD BLOPS 2. And it's everywhere. Why? To get people talking more and more about CoD BLOPS 2, a game that was already going to sell a million trillion squillion copies, so that more people will get caught up in the hype and just buy it. People who get caught up in hype tend not to think about buying things.
    But they wouldn't if they didn't know what it actually was. Again, it worked for the people who already knew it was a video game and a FPS. Anyone who didn't know what it was already was just confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Apple aren't selling products. They're selling self-image. Thus, they show snazzy 20-somethings being snazzy. The products themselves are unimportant.
    Completely true, but I kept away from that for fear of straying too far off-topic. Nevertheless I applaud you for that.
    Last edited by Shooop; 30-11-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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  8. #128
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Guinness does not need to advertise. Who the hell doesn't know what Guinness tastes like or the types of people who drink it? Its ads are, thus, basically just goofing off.



    Apple aren't selling products. They're selling self-image. Thus, they show snazzy 20-somethings being snazzy. The products themselves are unimportant.
    Anyone who hasn't had it in Ireland doesn't know what it tastes like!

    And you're right, Apple aren't selling products and Guinness doesn't really need to advertise, but so many companies at this stage don't. We all know who they are and what they do. Like Pepsi, who actually needs to be reminded this is a thing? Yet they spend millions on getting adverts with sports personalities around the world. David Beckham drinks Pepsi, drink it and be like him!

  9. #129
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Anyone who hasn't had it in Ireland doesn't know what it tastes like!

    And you're right, Apple aren't selling products and Guinness doesn't really need to advertise, but so many companies at this stage don't. We all know who they are and what they do. Like Pepsi, who actually needs to be reminded this is a thing? Yet they spend millions on getting adverts with sports personalities around the world. David Beckham drinks Pepsi, drink it and be like him!
    I'd love to go to Dublin and have a pint or ten, but until then I'll have to survive back here in New York for the time being. ;)

    I think a lot of the sponsorships, ad campaigns and the like from the big names who already have market saturation, let alone market domination, is mostly to placate their stockholders. Due diligence at finding your market and all that. No executive wants to be faulted for being complacent.
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  10. #130
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Anyone who hasn't had it in Ireland doesn't know what it tastes like!

    And you're right, Apple aren't selling products and Guinness doesn't really need to advertise, but so many companies at this stage don't. We all know who they are and what they do. Like Pepsi, who actually needs to be reminded this is a thing? Yet they spend millions on getting adverts with sports personalities around the world. David Beckham drinks Pepsi, drink it and be like him!
    Because they're always chasing after new customers. They know their old customers aren't going to live forever or possibly drink Pepsi for their entire life so they keep their name out there.
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  11. #131
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    Again, that's only preaching to the choir. It's only talking to people who already know the product and most likely want it. It's meaningless to anyone who doesn't know what it already is. Fox News knows what GTA is because they reported all about the third one allowing the player to kill hookers. Your mother knows because she's probably played the first two and knows the name. Your nephew knows what it is because he's probably played them. It works like a charm for people who are already in the know, but no one else. Yes it works now, but it probably won't in the future if they want to attract a mass of new players.

    But they wouldn't if they didn't know what it actually was. Again, it worked for the people who already knew it was a video game and a FPS. Anyone who didn't know what it was already was just confused.
    I can assure you neither my mother or nephew have ever played a GTA game.

    Just out of interest, how do you think the CoD franchise has managed to grow year on year and sell more copies of their games year on year if their adverts only work on people who already know what CoD is?

    How do all these new players find out what CoD is so they come along and buy the game? You'll probably tell me they've heard about it through word of mouth? But who did they hear it from? And where did the person that told them hear it from? Were a massive generation of kids born in the late 90s with an internal knowledge that one day CoD 4 would come out and they had to have it? Then they told the rest of us?

  12. #132
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    Because they're always chasing after new customers. They know their old customers aren't going to live forever or possibly drink Pepsi for their entire life so they keep their name out there.
    There's also the subconscious aspect: You may not think Pepsi's the best drink ever in the history of mankind, but if you keep getting reminded about it constantly, it'll be on your mind when you order a drink.
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  13. #133
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I can assure you neither my mother or nephew have ever played a GTA game.

    Just out of interest, how do you think the CoD franchise has managed to grow year on year and sell more copies of their games year on year if their adverts only work on people who already know what CoD is?

    How do all these new players find out what CoD is so they come along and buy the game? You'll probably tell me they've heard about it through word of mouth? But who did they hear it from? And where did the person that told them hear it from? Were a massive generation of kids born in the late 90s with an internal knowledge that one day CoD 4 would come out and they had to have it? Then they told the rest of us?
    They got their knowledge of what the games are from playing the previous games. The knowledge that another one was coming is all they got from the ads.

    And that's the thing - it looks successful because right now there's enough people who've played the other games to be profitable. But it won't work so well in the future because they'll need to attract new players.
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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    Here I'll bold the letters for you. The problem is it only works for people who already know what GTA is. It doesn't attract any new customers.
    Right, but how is someone who doesn't know what GTA is ever going to see the advert? It's not on TV, it's not going out before films, and it's not being pushed as an advert on games sites. It's only there if you look for it. It's only being targetted at current customers.

    One simple reason for that is that if you, the customer, have never played a GTA game, Rockstar don't want to sell you GTA V right now. Because it isn't out for a year. They'd rather sell you GTA 4, which you can actually given them money for right now.

  15. #135
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Maybe they just don't have the confidence in their gameplay mechanics. Maybe the game(?) is easier to sell based on its graphics. Maybe there isn't much to show.
    pass

  16. #136
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Right, but how is someone who doesn't know what GTA is ever going to see the advert? It's not on TV, it's not going out before films, and it's not being pushed as an advert on games sites. It's only there if you look for it. It's only being targetted at current customers.

    One simple reason for that is that if you, the customer, have never played a GTA game, Rockstar don't want to sell you GTA V right now. Because it isn't out for a year. They'd rather sell you GTA 4, which you can actually given them money for right now.
    To be fair, things that trend (god, I hate that I'm using that term) on Youtube tend to be seen by a wide variety of people.

    Also, I've been seeing a lot more traditional ads for video games of late: Billboards plastered on buses for AssCreed, constant TV spots for BlOps2, the whole nine. I fully expect GTA5 to have similar campaigns closer to launch.
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  17. #137
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    One simple reason for that is that if you, the customer, have never played a GTA game, Rockstar don't want to sell you GTA V right now. Because it isn't out for a year. They'd rather sell you GTA 4, which you can actually given them money for right now.
    That's a part of my point - it's not good advertising because it's only targeting very specific people when there's more potential buyers out there.

    I didn't say it won't work now, but it probably won't in the future when the previous customers stop buying and they need to attract new ones.
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  18. #138
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    They got their knowledge of what the games are from playing the previous games. The knowledge that another one was coming is all they got from the ads.
    That makes no sense. How do you sell a game of something to someone who has never played the previous games based on "their knowledge of playing the previous games". How has Activision managed to sell, year on year, MORE copies of the newest version of CoD? Are their fans that loyal to them that they're buying multiple copies to inflate the numbers?

    Black Op 1 sold over 5.6 million copies and MW3 sold over 6.5 million copies. Where did those extra 900K sales come from? The advertising of those games was nothing more than a Michael Bay trailer, yet it managed to pick up near an extra million players.

  19. #139
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    That makes no sense. How do you sell a game of something to someone who has never played the previous games based on "their knowledge of playing the previous games". How has Activision managed to sell, year on year, MORE copies of the newest version of CoD? Are their fans that loyal to them that they're buying multiple copies to inflate the numbers?

    Black Op 1 sold over 5.6 million copies and MW3 sold over 6.5 million copies. Where did those extra 900K sales come from? The advertising of those games was nothing more than a Michael Bay trailer, yet it managed to pick up near an extra million players.
    As you've said, advertisements.

    Also: Word of mouth, peer pressure, sponsorships and cross-promotions, discounts and bundles. Presumably all those Ecks Bawks players have friends. Snot-nosed, spoiled, pudgy friends, but friends nonetheless.
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  20. #140
    Network Hub SirDavies's Avatar
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    The Internet. A place where you can act like you know everything about any topic even though you are talking out of your ass.

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