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  1. #1041
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Stratgir could easily pull it off. Skill matters, but not much. Tactics and correct application of such in coordination between squads is what's needed.
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  2. #1042
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Actually, we have done it on several occasions. I remember clearly one time at Nott Amp, under your Platoon Leadership, Esoteric, holding off almost all the NC of Esamir.

    The difference here is that the DWG tactics weren't ad hoc, so the whole op was even more efficient and fluid. Skill of course, but also drilled responses and tactics.

    We do great things, but we do not discuss and analyze them that much, so the experience does not propagate through out the whole outfit.

  3. #1043
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    We do great things, but we do not discuss and analyze them that much, so the experience does not propagate through out the whole outfit.
    That. They planned what they did to the point of having the right classes in the right squads doing the right job. We plan what we do when we do it and as we do it and usually in reaction to something done to us.
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  4. #1044
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Actually, we have done it on several occasions. I remember clearly one time at Nott Amp, under your Platoon Leadership, Esoteric, holding off almost all the NC of Esamir.

    The difference here is that the DWG tactics weren't ad hoc, so the whole op was even more efficient and fluid. Skill of course, but also drilled responses and tactics.
    True, that was a moment of glory for RPS. Imagine what we could have achieved with more and clearer organisation up-front, or with the level of squad-play we've achieved in the last couple of weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    We do great things, but we do not discuss and analyze them that much, so the experience does not propagate through out the whole outfit.
    I seem to be the only one pushing for this, which saddens me, because I'm not always around on strat nights, or any other night when we've been doing organised ops. We really should have this as a standard procedure after any ops. Someone (me perhaps) should put together an agenda for these debriefings, so that there's no confusion as to what topics to raise for discussion. Something for the outift guide, maybe, along with comms and strat setups? (which reminds me, I should write something about strat/squad-play comms in that thread where Cooper requested input...)

  5. #1045
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    So since we are democratic and that and we have just mainly discussed for forever, why not just vote? Would appreciate people to just vote on this, takes like 2 seconds. I think the A+B - C/D seems most promising really, I know Cooper proposed that before as well.
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  6. #1046
    Activated Node Canuckde's Avatar
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    I like A+B - C/D for most nights, unless we have StratGir (either on Thursday or spontaneous decision)... A+B - C/D is like StratGir-Lite
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  7. #1047
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Just to re-iterate on a few things from last night in a matter-of-fact manner.

    1. I was already intending on splitting comms as there was a clear need to do so. The only pause in doing so was in waiting to return to the warp gate to form up and as I was desperately trying to set-up my Mumble short-cuts since the server change wiped them. I apologise for any confusion or frustration this caused, but I don't believe it was too significant.
    1a. I thought the system of Xing up (which I'll admit was also to give me time to sort out my Mumble short-cuts) in chat was effective. From a leading/communication stand-point, I thought A+B / C / D worked very well. My only issue was my own that, as I mentioned before, I didn't set-up a global talk-to-all which I would've liked to have done. I felt the relay of information between myself and SpecGir was fine.
    1b. The priority talking/volume was very helpful last night.

    2. I'd like to hope that I was clear in delivering orders, but if I wasn't, please call this out on me. I think the thing to bare in mind with the general chatter of where to go or what to do is that, unless it's the PL (or SL) saying specifically where to go AND moving the platoon way-point, ignore it. We obviously have an open comm system that enables chatter and discussion of strategy - I know I for one take advantage of this when not leading - but if you are not sure what to do, do call out your leader at any point. Apologies if anyone under me last night was unsure of direction.

    3. I think skill/tactically, we do rather well. I forget the name of where we held on Esamir yesterday evening before the platoon swelled in size, but there was something like 20 of us holding one of the single-point locations from a mixture of TR and NC forces and we held our ground valiantly. This included multiple galaxy drops and deployed sunderers at the same time. It was, really, rather quite bad-ass. The fact we happened to beat back PCG as one of those forces should make for a fun Thursday evening!

    If anyone would like to bring up anything I did last night, be it good or bad, please say so. Particularly the bad. I know I have a particular leadership style, but there will always be areas to improve. Obviously, after reading through the last few pages, feedback was good and it seems like some newcomers were able to hop in and enjoyed themselves (which is the main thing). I was pretty satisfied with how everything went though, especially considering we almost assuredly were a required force in taking Esamir.

    // I wonder if a good idea might be to have a thread dedicated to post-battle discussion, so that feedback can be issued on a case-by-case basis?
    Last edited by The JG Man; 09-04-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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  8. #1048
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Yeah, that was a sweet defence.

    The highlight for me was how we secured the Bulwark. At the start we attempted a gal drop, but we landed on top of a massive Vanguard column. Redeployed to the closest Ymir satellite, tried the usual haphazard approach, but then moved in with multiple sunderers. One deployed in a safe, fall back position, and the other two more aggressively. We also neutralised their armour efficiently, baby-seated our sundies, covered buildings and corners, called out every enemy movement. We adapted and we overcame.

  9. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckde View Post
    I like A+B - C/D for most nights, unless we have StratGir (either on Thursday or spontaneous decision)... A+B - C/D is like StratGir-Lite
    I guess it's worth being clear on this point: I don't think anyone is proposing we change how Thursday nights (or Monday/Wednesday) are run, this is only about what comms/tactics to use outside of planned events.

    I'm annoyed I didn't get to stick around to see A+B/C/D in action last night (and doubly annoyed because I volunteered for SL and then buggered off immediately, sorry all).

  10. #1050
    Activated Node Canuckde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordKiwi View Post
    I guess it's worth being clear on this point: I don't think anyone is proposing we change how Thursday nights (or Monday/Wednesday) are run, this is only about what comms/tactics to use outside of planned events.
    yup, but I also think that it would be possible to do spontaneous hardcore StratGir if a majority online felt interested in it.

    A+B - C/D just allows for a nice mix of Faff-Around-Gir and Strat-Gir... While letting both groups work together
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  11. #1051
    Activated Node Kyndylan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    3. I think skill/tactically, we do rather well. I forget the name of where we held on Esamir yesterday evening before the platoon swelled in size, but there was something like 20 of us holding one of the single-point locations from a mixture of TR and NC forces and we held our ground valiantly. This included multiple galaxy drops and deployed sunderers at the same time. It was, really, rather quite bad-ass. The fact we happened to beat back PCG as one of those forces should make for a fun Thursday evening!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Yeah, that was a sweet defence.
    I certainly enjoyed it! From my point of view, it's interesting that you hold that up as a specifically good example of squad play. I don't have anything to compare it against, as it was my first time in a squad, but it felt remarkably relaxed - it surely shouldn't be that hard to play like that every night??

    I kind of had it in my head that good squad play would involve lots of Yes Sir, No Sir, but that was totally not the case.
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  12. #1052
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: *********SYSTEM DOES NOT EFFECT EVENTS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM*******************

    In response to JG - yes I think yesterday worked pretty swell as well. I just wish we didn't have to pull up the old infected debate but I also realize that was my fault. It will not happen again and should not have to happen again.

    In regards to your third point, that defense is pretty much exactly how I like to play this game. We were like 15 people and worked very well together and helped eachother, attacked, fell back etc. That was really well done and worked very well.

    I really liked how quickly you responded to order requests and how decisive you were. The thing I took away that you should think of, and that I sort of went against you in, sorry, was the attack at Jaegers Crossing that you thought we should give up. We refused in Charlie and we held with CSG. I should've also said I was talking to them in Leader, but I thought you saw. Anyway that fight was fucking awesome.

    Kyndylan: That is a common and unfortunate misunderstanding by generally the people that do not like the system and do not join in, and I guess it sounds like it will be ultra srs when we describe it the way we do. It is not like that at all, it's rather that the way we "originally" or whatever play/played is very relaxed for PS2. SirHoc once said yes sir to me and I told him to stop, because that is really fucking weird. We are not military people and not crazy, so that should not be a thing we do.

    Squad leader will be a bit shouty, decisive and be the authority, but that's because that's the best way to cooperate in this game imo. That does not mean people are not allowed to take initiative and follow orders to the letter. Rather, the system should make people want to cooperate and take one for the team and such. And I think it does right now.
    Last edited by RIDEBIRD; 09-04-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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  13. #1053
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Pasted link to survey in-game and on Mumble now so more can see it, and not just the forum regulars.
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  14. #1054
    Network Hub CaBBagE's Avatar
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    So many posts on comms! I really enjoyed last night (I was in the A+B 'faffers'), especially the fact that we catered for all desired styles of play. I've not seen many people call out for slack/lax approach focusing when needed but that's what we had in A+B after the split last and it was the most fun I've had in PS2 to date. We came together when needed and got a bit floaty when not. Having a hard core strat for C/D (or just D etc.) seems like a great solution to fit different people's needs/wishes.
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  15. #1055
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyndylan View Post
    I kind of had it in my head that good squad play would involve lots of Yes Sir, No Sir, but that was totally not the case.
    I think as Ridebird says, it's not so much the following of the order, more how you do it. That defence, we worked our way into useful roles, called out positions, were aggressive, but not stupid. If you'll recall, I used positional smoke to mark the enemy sunderer at one point! We were able to prioritise threats and so on and so forth. If Battlefield has the Moments of something spontaneously brilliant, this is the PlanetSide equivalent.

    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    In response to JG - yes I think yesterday worked pretty swell as well. I just wish we didn't have to pull up the old infected debate but I also realize that was my fault. It will not happen again and should not have to happen again.
    I think that may have come from a lack of clarity as to the exact nature of the split. The fact it worked is obviously great, but that doesn't make that moment of indecision acceptable. The only person who can take responsibility on that is myself. And it's not a big deal, I'm not angry at myself that it happened, just know exactly how to proceed in the future! I want to make it abundantly clear that before you mentioned splitting comms, I was already intending on doing so. It's also why I made a point of saying to everyone when we temporarily folded in in Mumble that this was my decision to do so.

    The thing I took away that you should think of, and that I sort of went against you in, sorry, was the attack at Jaegers Crossing that you thought we should give up. We refused in Charlie and we held with CSG. I should've also said I was talking to them in Leader, but I thought you saw. Anyway that fight was fucking awesome.
    No need to apologise. It was clearly the right thing to do. It's what obviously broke the final vanguard of NC on Esamir. I'll put my hands up as well that I fumbled there. I was undecided if pulling out was a good idea and was reluctant in ordering a simple back-capping order, so the push to stay was very welcome. I'm sure people have heard me say multiple times, both last night and on previous leads, that I despise sending people into a grind. As soon as it's looking that way, I have a tendency to get out ASAP. I think I need to give a little more time than I usually do on making these decisions.

    Also, leader chat was being weird as hell. I was still able to view it after handing over Alpha SL, but it seemed to sporadically chirp up with discussion. I don't know if that was simply because it wasn't being used or if the game is broken. Or both.
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  16. #1056
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    Indeed tactical-comms DOES NOT EQUAL SERIOUS ALL BUISNESS YESSIR NO SIR. It is just a name for splitting into squad based communication when the main channel gets too chatty. It does not mean you have to be super skilled, or that you have to be silent. Hell just being 12 guys lets you talk shit more than a full 30 man channel does.

    This just cannot be stressed enough, beacuse sometimes the split comms can be silent like a morgue which I think is because people think it has to be deadly serious. Talk shit all you want, tell fun drunken stories of last weekend just be ready to listen to the squad lead and then keep on talking.

  17. #1057
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Hm, I can see the problem now...

    It is miscommunication. No, tactical/StratGir/whatever is not super-serious, or militaristic, or whatever. We are not such people. It's just a bit more focused and a lot more cooperative. And you don't have to obey to the Obersturmfuehrer or whatever. People take the initiative, make suggestions.

    Actually whenever I lead in such a setup, my squad is usually already doing what I was about to suggest, and often a lot of the guys and girls come up with better suggestions and plans. I'm not a tactical genius, nor they psychics. It's just that we are all a bit more focused, so the whole interplay comes a bit more natural. And this mode also allows for more social interaction, beyond relaying tactical information, exactly because everything seems to flow better.

    This is just my take, as a person that never played a FPS before and this is my first exposure to tactical play.

  18. #1058
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardancer View Post
    Indeed tactical-comms DOES NOT EQUAL SERIOUS ALL BUISNESS YESSIR NO SIR. It is just a name for splitting into squad based communication when the main channel gets too chatty. It does not mean you have to be super skilled, or that you have to be silent. Hell just being 12 guys lets you talk shit more than a full 30 man channel does.

    This just cannot be stressed enough, beacuse sometimes the split comms can be silent like a morgue which I think is because people think it has to be deadly serious. Talk shit all you want, tell fun drunken stories of last weekend just be ready to listen to the squad lead and then keep on talking.
    Actually one of my favourite squad nights was with you, Wardancers, leading the squad I was in on Amerish. It was brilliant, fluid, people still chatted (well, you had me and Cortosis there!), but we were cohesive, effective. You made great suggestions, lead decisively and clearly, and also readily took good ideas from the rest of the squad. That gal drop on top of the TR sunderer was amazing.

  19. #1059
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    3. I think skill/tactically, we do rather well. I forget the name of where we held on Esamir yesterday evening before the platoon swelled in size, but there was something like 20 of us holding one of the single-point locations from a mixture of TR and NC forces and we held our ground valiantly. This included multiple galaxy drops and deployed sunderers at the same time. It was, really, rather quite bad-ass. The fact we happened to beat back PCG as one of those forces should make for a fun Thursday evening!
    It was quite bad ass, but that is what happens when you have mostly experienced people playing together and you'll note we weren't using splitcomms.

  20. #1060
    Network Hub laldy's Avatar
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    Being totally silent on comms, no matter whether in 1 big channel or in "tactical/ strategic" set ups is counter-productive. As squad leaders and balloon leaders, we need and desire feedback on decisions (but not full blown arguments that achieve nothing except wasted playing time, we need to let the leaders lead), as well as suggestions, mood lightening discussions and informational call outs. Besides which, when almost everyone is silent it's bloody boring.
    On top of that, some of us, especially me, are physically incapable of remaining quiet or serious for any length of time :P

    All we ask is that when we need to give out orders, people give us the opportunity to do so, then go back to whatever they were talking about, whilst trying their hardest to achieve their current goal.

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