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  1. #1101
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    On the one hand, I know that naming people is considered impolite. But on the other hand, I have no idea if any of the suggestions in this thread relate to me because I'm not being named.

    I don't presume to speak for everyone, but if any of this is about me I'd love to see my name being mentioned.

    I hope it's clear that while I am quoting Ridebird's post I only do so to illustrate the general feeling I want to quote and that I'm not specifically talking to or about Ridebird.
    I like your ordering style. In fact you are among those leaders, as well as Ridebird, Laldy, Grible and others, who alter your tone and raise your voice, so it becomes even more apparent when you are discussing things or just chatting, and when you are actually issuing an order.

    And now that I come to think of it, this is one more reason to do that: by altering the tone and volume of your voice, you convey even more information than what is just being said.

    As for naming, well, yes, that word is sometimes followed by "... and shaming", so I can see the association and hesitation some may have. But addressing someone specific and discussing things in a constructive and polite manner is a different thing, IMHO.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 10-04-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  2. #1102
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    Regarding multi squad tactics and orders, that is something I find to simply not work. Hence compromise comms. PLs should keep AB together and C/D are already split.
    This should not be the case. And we should not resign to the fact.

  3. #1103
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    Regarding the more low key leaders I reckon eso could help out since he is low key but still clear and decisive. You don't have to shout to be heard.
    You think so? That's good, I was thinking I might have been a bit too timid and/or conversational, but that may be mostly when I'm feeling a bit unsure of the next move. There could be a difference between how I talk to you when you're SLing and how I speak to other squads' ROs, though.

    I think, as Eclectic pointed out, that altering tone of voice slightly will emphasize that there's something different coming. Repetition is also good, as has been mentioned. Requesting acknowledgement might be a good plan, I should start doing that.

    Something I did yesterday, PLing during squad-play, was to request sitreps from squads, Bravo, then Charlie, then Delta (I was in Alpha, so no need for sitreps from them). Spontaneous sitreps were a bit sporadic, so I felt the need to ask from time to time, and looping through squads, prompting each RO in turn, seemed to work much better than asking everyone at once.

  4. #1104
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about the whole naming thing impolite since The Incident TM and realised either I am weird or it's a cultural thing, because I have no issue with just straight up naming people if it's needed. Especially regarding constructive criticism. Stop dancing around for fucks sake, just spit the name out and go to town. As long as you're not being a total dick (which I might have during The Incident but hey) it's fine. I would much appreciate that people rather just say what they think about me other then say SOME PEOPLE and you have to guess.. Been loads of times when I've felt general negativity in my general direction that people just haven't said, and I really dislike that.

    Eclectic: Well, if you want to split AB, be my guest. I will rarely be in those channels if ever, so it wont bother me

    I just find it extremely messy to have two squads at two spots doing two different things and that most of the time people don't check their squad and go to one of the locations.
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  5. #1105
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    For the record, I too am fine with direct constructive criticism. Any other kind should not be given, I think. Any input should at least be followed by a "I didn't like it, but I don't really know what to do about it" type of thing.

  6. #1106
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Constructive to me implies that you have some feedback along the lines of "instead of that, do this" rather then "this was bad but I suck and I don't know what you should do better".
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  7. #1107
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    Yes, Eso, you're an excellent example of how quietly assertive can work just as well as raised voice. Can't put my finger on why it works when you do it - certainly most other PLs veer towards the other end of the spectrum when giving orders - but it does.

  8. #1108
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Armchair Giraffing

    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    Eclectic: Well, if you want to split AB, be my guest. I will rarely be in those channels if ever, so it wont bother me

    I just find it extremely messy to have two squads at two spots doing two different things and that most of the time people don't check their squad and go to one of the locations.
    What you are describing is more operational than tactical. What I was referring to was how we should have for instance Alpha on overwatch while Bravo advances, or Charlie and Delta doing leapfrogging, etc. This works best with 12-giraffe comms, but we need to work on coordination between squads.

    A clarification (since I seem to be the only using the concept of operations as an intermediate tier between strategy and tactics - it is though an established and separate one in military analysis):
    Strategy: We need to neutralise a TR lock on a highly populated Esamir. We have just the necessary pop and the adjacency to crucial territories to also go for the tech plant. We decide upon this strategic course, since we have the means and the opportunity, and it will deny the TR their prowlers.
    Operation: First step is to take Eisa tech plant, and that means capping the adjacent territories first, so Alpha go to to Echo Valley and Bravo, Charlie and Delta go to Saerro. Echo Valley task force will gal drop, while Saerro task force will move by land.
    Platoon level tactics: Bravo set ups a fall back sundy NE from B, across the road and behind the embankment. Supports from the north side of the embankment. Charlie and Delta leapfrog across, and try to get additional sundies closer, from the south side of the road, near B. Then they all converge to the tower, and after securing it, Charlie moves for C. Depending on resistance, Delta reinforces.
    Squad level tactics: Bravo places the fall back sundy in a safe position, and has heavies and engies suppressing and destroying enemy armour that is moving north from the tower, as well as the gun turrets facing towards its position. Charlie suppresses infantry, covering Delta as it crosses the road.
    Operational consideration: Alpha is encountering greater resistance in Echo Valley, so the SG/PL might consider moving Delta to reinforce.
    Strategic consideration: Everything is moving along nicely, and VS population increases in relation to the TR one. Perhaps try for a continent lock?

    The operation continues with the platoon converging on Eisa. A follow up operation might be securing Freyr, or a bio lab, or switching focus to the NC. Which one is dictated by strategic analysis of enemy and allied disposition and logistics.

    When doing mixed comms, the two separate squads could always undertake the tasks that require more squad level tactical coordination, and yet the SLs of all the groupings can still coordinate effectively on a platoon level.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 10-04-2013 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Vain attemps at clarity

  9. #1109
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    Constructive to me implies that you have some feedback along the lines of "instead of that, do this" rather then "this was bad but I suck and I don't know what you should do better".
    Yeah, "constructive" is a bit more restrictive than what I wanted to get at. Maybe "respectful" or "tactful" are better words. It is often apparent what must change, but not always how, and I feel it's better to say something than to say nothing at all. Just do it so noone getshurt or angry.

  10. #1110
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    Agreed, lets just name those that may need it. I have no idea if I am in the list, if so I would like to know what I am doing wrong, and I can imagine others would to.

  11. #1111
    Can I get added to the outfit? paranoydandroyd

  12. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by paranoydandroyd View Post
    Can I get added to the outfit? paranoydandroyd
    join mumble when you're in-game and ask for an invite. unfortunately, the game doesn't allow inviting people that aren't online.

  13. #1113
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    So can we set the Compromise COmms as standard then? And set up that as the default channels etc. 18 have now voted, 16 for compromise. The link again:
    http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BWNLQMZ

    May I also encourage all that wish to play in smaller squads to please speak up now. We need to crush that fear as it still persists.
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  14. #1114
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    So can we set the Compromise COmms as standard then? And set up that as the default channels etc. 18 have now voted, 16 for compromise. The link again:
    http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BWNLQMZ

    May I also encourage all that wish to play in smaller squads to please speak up now. We need to crush that fear as it still persists.
    Yup. Think we should. I've updated Mumble channels for platoon 2 as such:
    Attachment 2984

    Not sure if we should move these channels actually into Platoon 1 instead, but there were a lot of people in there playing, so I didn't want to mess with it just now. It's easy just to move the channels at any time.

  15. #1115
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    Purple Giraffe to Onthemoll for instigating the usage of smoke at Grey Haven tonight. The combination of smoke and infantry helped us push back and hold against a much, much larger TR force. Was great fun, and kept me play for thirty minutes more than I had planned.

    BGTLmf5CEAA_Lu5.jpg

  16. #1116
    Lesser Hivemind Node sinomatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Repeating orders in a tactical situation is often impractical. The pace is fast, so if the squad members aren't at the positions they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be, the opportunity will be most likely lost.
    I've rarely seen the pace be so fast that there isn't time to say something like " Repeat: Alpha to point A, Bravo destroy the generator". As you say, if the squad members aren't where they're supposed to be then opportunities can be lost, but I'd argue that those 2 or 3 seconds of (albeit abbreviated) repeat orders saves time on the hanging around waiting for people to get into transport or troops catching up from far behind.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    [...]those leaders, as well as Ridebird, Laldy, Grible and others, who alter your tone and raise your voice, so it becomes even more apparent when you are discussing things or just chatting, and when you are actually issuing an order.

    And now that I come to think of it, this is one more reason to do that: by altering the tone and volume of your voice, you convey even more information than what is just being said.
    This. If you're very involved in the game or you've just zoned out of chat or whatever, a sudden change in tone, language and volume is much more likely to catch my attention.

    Personally I'd quite like something like "Break! New orders: Alpha I want you to go to x and do y........Repeat: Alpha to X". I know everyone has their own style, but when it comes to the actual delivery of the orders I could really do with something particular to listen out for.

    EDIT: That smoke at Grey Haven was a beautiful thing. My shiny new NV scope came in rather handy.
    Last edited by sinomatic; 11-04-2013 at 03:19 AM.

  17. #1117
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    May I also encourage all that wish to play in smaller squads to please speak up now. We need to crush that fear as it still persists.
    I'd personally prefer to be a smaller squad. Based on the (for me at least) chaos of everyone in one channel, where I quickly feel overwhelmed by the amount of chatter, I think I could perform better that way. And as I've said multiple times it would also encourage me to speak up more.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  18. #1118
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    If it needs to be repeated then yes, bring on more squad play.

  19. #1119
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Yes Frengler, what I mean is that I am kind of tired of being the person that calls for us to split off and start the whole thing about every time. With the new system everyone should feel secure to propose that.
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  20. #1120
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    Yes Frengler, what I mean is that I am kind of tired of being the person that calls for us to split off and start the whole thing about every time. With the new system everyone should feel secure to propose that.
    Yeah, I can understand that frustration. As I said I'm personally more for being split into squads on Mumble but I am the not the kind of person who'd at the moment dare suggest it while we are actually on Mumble. I've read (briefly) through some of the current/older discussions about comms and judging by the latest comments it seemed to me like an issue that was more or less over and done with. So I've kept my opinion to myself for fear of flogging a dead horse.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

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