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  1. #421
    Lesser Hivemind Node Feldspar's Avatar
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    In other MMOs I found that asking people to apply via a forum, although it did put some people off, was a way of sorting out who just wanted to join a guild/outfit/corp/flock from people who wanted to join a community. I'm not certain PS2 has an equivalent of the asshat who joins a guild so he can beg for money and babysitters through low level dungeons (I'm afraid I'm one of theose people who enjoy saying no), and I've not seen anyone in the outfit announce that everyone except them is doing it wrong and everyone should get their shit together and follow their example (well, other than PLs, but that's their job), and as this is the first time I've heard of someone getting the boot or anyone complaining about another player, we must be doing something right.

  2. #422
    Lesser Hivemind Node apricotsoup's Avatar
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    I've officered in a few MMOs and don't mind having to write a few messages explaining and then kicking people if others are reluctant to do it.

    It's worse if it's someone you've played with for a long time whose attitude has suddenly taken a serious change for the worse but this is such a rare occurance that I don't expect it to happen here (it happened in wow with raid structures and real life romances breaking down and spilling into the guild but due to this being a lot more friendly less structured type of affair we should avoid that entirely).

  3. #423
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricotsoup View Post
    real life romances breaking down and spilling into the guild
    Those were always horrible to have happen but also mildly entertaining when you look at how some of them occurred and when you have a wife screaming at her husband whose the GM that she just found out is diddling one of the healers on "business" trips and brings in "no wonder she gets all the priority drops!!"

  4. #424
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Never had that issue, thankfully. I have had the case of where a couple wants to join and demands to raid with eachother, and one of them is absolutely terrible.

    Then you have to kick that person and the other, actually good player, had to leave as well, but not after spouting endless hate. I did not very much care in those situations however, since it was just kind of hilarious.

    I doubt we will have these types of problems in RPS to be honest, as this is the most well functioning game community I have seen in a good while.
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  5. #425
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricotsoup View Post
    ... and don't mind having to write a few messages explaining and then kicking people if others are reluctant to do it.
    Neither do I, but I don't think I'm a Balloon Leader. If that were to change, then I'm up for the task as well.

  6. #426
    Lesser Hivemind Node Dewi's Avatar
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    My 2 Cents:

    I think inviting randoms shouldn't be as demonised as it currently is. Yeah you risk getting a bad egg, but we run just as much risk as someone from another RPS community joining and not gelling with the community as well. It comes down to psychology, in that people are more inclined to remember bad experiences than good experiences, as it was a self defence mechanism back in cave giraffe days to learn from your own mistakes; it's why "time flies when you're having fun".

    Now, I'm not advocating inviting every Tom, Dick and Harry, but I don't think this one bad experience should stop us from inviting randoms entirely, just like having one good experience doesn't make us go out and recruit the entire server.

    To weed out the asshats, any new recruit should join us on mumble, as is required for our bigger events (and quite frankly, why would anyone want to play an MMO of any description without speaking to people, verbally or textually), and interact with us directly. Lay down some ground rules (rule: "Be excellent to each other") and if these are not adhered to, politely say skedaddle and be done with it. If they persist in mumble they can always be muted until the purplest of Giraffes has a chance to ban them completely.

    Whilst yes, pricks exist on the internet, lurking in every corner, there are some amazing people out there just looking for a community like ours, and to deny them the chance to fight the good fight with us (and the same for us with them) is a bit unfair because one dude decided to be an ass.
    Last edited by Dewi; 13-02-2013 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Grammatical Misfortune

  7. #427
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Esoteric should be BL anyway, I nominate him etc etc.

    Also give beacons the right to kick!
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  8. #428
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    well, I think its clear that in matters like this, we turn to a certain group of people in RPS. I expect that group to change, of course, but I think it should be clear who gets to decide if it cant be solved "amicably".

    And no, beacons should not be allowed to kick. You dont have to play with that certain RPS member in your squad, if you cant handle him being in the outfit.

    Also, I dont mind taking care of the social stuff, but definitely not while playing as PL or SL.
    - Tom De Roeck.

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  9. #429
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    I think you said you could as well Boris, sorry. I did not realize you had kicking power either.
    What's there to apologize for? (I honestly have no idea why you feel the need)

    I thought I couldn't, and it seems I can't because I'm a Beacon (I think).

    Related, I've been PL a couple times, but only during off hours. I have no idea if my leadership is sound, so in general when the call comes up for a PL I respond with "I'll do it if no one else wants". Not that I'm trying to avoid being PL, but more out of a lack of confidence in my abilities -- I don't want people to leave if I'm a shit leader.

    PS: Moxxie should be on at all times to make the facility capture noise.

  10. #430
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    It was up for everyone to kick him for a good hour and to handle it. We were all in agreement that he couldn't stay. I asked for volounteers. I think Orius said he could but that he was not a beacon (can't kick). That was it.
    I am a Beacon, but I still wasn't given the option. I believe only Balloon Leads and above may do so.

    That said, how about we make the people who invite randoms responsible for their conduct up until they are deemed full members, by which I mean that if they are found wanting, they should be the ones to tell them why they are let go as well if that's how it turns out. Then the technical aspect of kicking may be delegated to a higher authority while ugliness is the specific individual's problem.


    ALSO: Esoteric has definitely proven himself as a BL and should be given the appropriate rank. And I'm not entirely sure about giving beacons kick privileges though, at least not according to Cooper's rank document which sets the bar exceedingly low to become a beacon (basically: have spawn beacon.)
    Last edited by Orius; 13-02-2013 at 02:49 PM.

  11. #431
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    It's Baloons and Cooper. Beacons can't.

  12. #432
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    And no, beacons should not be allowed to kick. You dont have to play with that certain RPS member in your squad, if you cant handle him being in the outfit.
    ???

    I don't think our beacons would randomly kick people.
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  13. #433
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Agreed with RIDEBIRD, I don't think beacons would start randomly kicking people. If someone did, we just remove them and add everyone back, which I think raises another important point about why everyone who wants to play with us should be registered to this site first, even if its through us telling them to go to RPS and find the info, so that everyone has a means to contact us through the site and put their input in if it's needed.

  14. #434
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Agreed with Dewi and Esoteric.

    We were pretty quick to spot that he wasnt exactly what we are looking for in an outfit member, so we nipped it in the bud. Given that, there's no need for any anxiety over an influx of people we dont know and who dont know RPS. As long as in the future, if things go south, we do it in a quick, clean and fair manner; like Esoteric suggested. Once it becomes an established procedure it wouldnt be such a "negative" experience (for us primarily) anyway. Meanwhile, we've potentially gained 50% worth of great additions to the outfit.

    I disagree entirely though, on the point that the ability to kick should be given to more or less everyone. To quote Molly Hatchet. We're flirtin' with disaster y'all damn sure know what I mean. There could be potential for further problems down the line. I trust and know that everyone here wouldnt go all Fascist on us and kick people and be an arsehat. (Unless Quanta gets blind drunk and puts on his best Adolf Hitler accent). But people who arent so active and established within the community are, in terms of personality, an unknown quantiy. It should obviously remain assigned to people who have proven themselves responsible, fair and mature enough within the RPS/PS2 community. A Balloon or Beacon, or trusted Giraffe at best, as i know there are a few who are, and i love you for it.

    In regard to the event though, i am a BL and was involved in it all. Though unfortunately not well informed enough to 'take over the situation' shall we say. Which like Esoteric, i will certainly do in the future. Personally i can manage /telling that person "it's not you, its me" etc. People of that outfit rank arnt always going to be in positions of leadership on any given night, such as myself last night. Though if i am not online, someone else of said ranks should step up. Now we all know via CMasters link from the original post who can, there's no grey area. It would be very helpful if those with the ability to kick either said they will, or that they dont want to.

    Suggestion: A "3 strikes and your out" policy (or something to that theme). Doesnt have to be implemented, it's just an idea, but it's a way for people to have a second chance and prove that they can be a good edition to our PS2 community. Unless of course, they do something completely heinous in the name of RPS.

    It already looks quite cemented, but i side with the whole "heres a link to forums" thing. As Esoteric said, it gives them a chance to read our exploits on here, gives them a feel for who we are as a community and if they want to be a part of it. Whilst contrastingly filtering through anyone that cant figure it out. As has been said already, they arguably wouldnt be best suited to our community anyway.

    Suggestion: I would like to champion that we roll with another platoon. I assume our name has grown and we are as recognisable as VS on Miller, as WASP are for NC and BRTD for TR etc. We should take advantage of this and open another platoon, name it eg. "RPS - Public Platoon - Indar Defence Force!" or "The RPS TA".

    - (Hopefully) means more people fighting where we need/want them.
    - Reinforces our name amongst Miller VS.
    - Gives leadership experience to any budding/current BL out there.
    - Rewards us as RPS, working within the VS community, as we saw last night with dedicated air cover, as these sub platoons could (and hopefully will) contain small organised outfits.
    - If anything, on some nghts it will be purely be a zerg platoon at our whim.

    DIG do this a lot. I have sat in a platoon of randoms on a few of their outfit outings and it works. They used Platoon In-game Comms to speak with us, but that's no biggie to set up. I would happily lead a rabble or indeed direct a union of smaller, squadish sized VS outfits. This could help build faction-intra-outfit-relations and also provide a stepping stone for "pubbies". If the PL happened to see outfit potential in one then they can always just invite from there. Or, join requests could be made. Hypothetically speaking, if we had the two platoons ("RPS and RPS - Territorial Army") working in sort of a symbiotic relationship, with the two's members' fighting together, side by side, bi-productivity could be that we inspire people with our badassness to want to join up that way. I say symbiotic relationship loosely. The Giraffes' resilience and durability are on par with messrs McClane and Rambo. But we all know extra feet on the ground is quite nice to have.

    I don't think there is any danger of loosing the identity we have as we grow. We might just become more spread out over squads and platoons. Instead of there being for example: Rotekian, MrEclectic, Marquise, Jaguar skills and Boriz in the same squad, i may eventually only have one or two of them and the rest be people we picked up on Miller along the way. Or, alternitavely, the new members can have their own platoon and we can be something of a "501st Vaders Fist" type thing within RPS. The originals, The immortals, The blueprint.
    Last edited by NickWhite; 13-02-2013 at 03:51 PM.
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  15. #435
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    PS: Moxxie should be on at all times to make the facility capture noise.
    This^

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  16. #436
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    That said, how about we make the people who invite randoms responsible for their conduct up until they are deemed full members, by which I mean that if they are found wanting, they should be the ones to tell them why they are let go as well if that's how it turns out. Then the technical aspect of kicking may be delegated to a higher authority while ugliness is the specific individual's problem.


    ALSO: Esoteric has definitely proven himself as a BL and should be given the appropriate rank.
    Also this^

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  17. #437
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickWhite View Post
    ...
    Suggestion: A "3 strikes and your out" policy...
    ...
    Suggestion: I would like to champion that we roll with another platoon...
    ...
    These suggestions sound good to me. It could be fun to take part in a pub platoon from time to time. I suggest we put one or two of our Beacons or Balloon Leaders as SLs beside whoever leads the pub platoon, and possibly add a squad or two from other outfits if there's anyone who wants to join us. Then we keep all of our people on Mumble, in the leader subchannels, so we can coordinate movements. Sounds like fun!

  18. #438
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    Remember that Beacon is meant to be handed out pretty liberally, to anyone who well, has a beacon and the willingness to use it. So it's not necessarily the case that those people are especially reliable.
    Also, I'm not sure if PS2 lets you adjust the rights that each rank has or not. It's quite possible that there are a five fixed ranks that you can just change the names of.

  19. #439
    Activated Node ata's Avatar
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    That guy last night was an utter tool, I did get a screenshot of some of his milder abuse in chat(before he'd even been kicked) just incase he decided to stir up any shit, totally the right decision to kick him.

    Apparently RPS is now on his hit list so we better watch out haha (I think he maybe did actually TK a few giraffes in a tech plant)

  20. #440
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    We have one rule here. It's on the outfit details page.
    No arsehats.
    The guy sounded like an arsehat. He got kicked. I don't think we owe him any kind of explanation.

    As for invites, I think the current rule works. I'll reiterate it:

    You have to ask on Mumble to get an invite
    Mic not necessary but please, please don't invite anyone who can't be bothered do something as simple as install a piece of software and look on these forums for server details. I don't expect everyone to have a mic. but we should expect everyone to know how to listen-in. There's little to no point joining an RPS platoon without Mumble.

    As for randoms. Well, I often get requests to join the outfit if I'm using /orders a lot or people start recognising [RPS] platoons on the field.
    My response is to tell them we're the outfit for rockpapershotgun.com and tell them to go to the website, check the forums, and find the details to join there. I tell them it's as simple as joining our Mumble server and asking, and that the Mumble details are on the forums.
    I get less than 20% of people who ask for invites in-game turning up in Mumble and asking for invites. Which is fine. If they can't be bothered joining our comms, I can'r see how they would, themselves, get anything out of [RPS]. We're Mumble dependent and not listening-in basically cuts you off.

    I do not think it's worth having people post invitation requests here. Even if that's common practice. I think the "get on Mumble and ask nicely" process works fine. We aren't weeding people out for skill or how much they will commit like -some- outfits. As for attitude, we can only weed that out after they start acting like dicks.

    We can't be an outfit solely for people who were using these forums before PS2. But we can expect everyone who wants to join to come through these forums to find out details.

    CMaster's right that by setting up everyone with invite privileges we have a pretty anarchic system here. That was always my intention. Apart from this one guy; are we having problems with this invite system? OR is it more that we can expect problems if we start actively recruiting from in-game?

    We need to remember how lucky we are with this community. It's incredibly rare for something as friendly & fun as we have here to have grown organically in the way this has. If anything, that guy serves as a reminder of how fucking obnoxious far too many people are. If we start any kind of recruitment drive, we have to keep this in mind. I think before we do anything in-game we should try to get a community spotlight on the RPS front page. I will sort this out as a priority come 1st March when I have time.

    I still really like the idea of PUG [RPS] platoons. I really enjoyed running them in the beta, and I know a few people here joined through that. I would welcome people trialing them and letting me know how it turns out. But let's avoid using them explicitly for recruiting for now. If people do ask, the process should be "we are the outfit for the rockpapershotgun.com community. Go check out the forums at that website" and leave people to work it out themselves. It's one of the most open recruitment policies I've seen in MMOs and let's keep it as open, but not more so. If they want something quick and easy, that's what's [DIG]'s 5,000+ outfit is for...

    Also: No for Beacons kicking. BLs should kick when they need to. I hope this recent occurence is a one-off and we'll not have to worry again. As for telling people why. Do we have to bother? Unless we start getting into a situation where people are being kicked and that kicking is deemed questionable by others, then we can ssume any kicks are because someone was being an obvious arsehat. Obvious aresehats deserve no explanation.

    Requests:
    Put people forward for BL.
    (BTW: Esoteric is already BL and has been for some time. Pretty certain someone put him forward a week or two ago, I agreed, and so counted my agreement as a 'seconded'. Probably should have posted to that effect. Oops.)It's a simple system. Someone recommends them, someone else seconds, they get a promotion. In my mind there are more people who deserve this position than have been put forward to it. But I've kept hands-off about just promoting people at my own will because whole point of the community putting people forward was that BL meant something. It meant the community recognised and appreciated your leadership.

    I realise only I can promote to BL: See below

    Questions
    1) Should we limit invites to Giraffe Beacons & above?
    Given we can probably guarantee a Beacon on at any given time, this seems like a decent option?

    2) Do we need more people who can promote to BL (at 'herd leader' position or something?)
    My rank gives me zero permissions above BL beyond changing rank permissions. However, BLs cannot promote other people to BL.
    It was my hope to develop a community of BLs who would welcome others into the fold, others who'd been recognised by the community for their leadership. What I didn't realise when setting up BL was that you can't promote to your own rank. Am I active enough in promoting BLs (which is basically all my rank allows me to do that BLs can't) or do we need other leaders
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