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  1. #781
    Lesser Hivemind Node madmoxxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    Yeah, there's a distinct difference. Some people manage to set a bad mood in one of a few different ways; whining and moaning, being "needy", laying blame on others for one thing or another, calling "bad leadership" when things go awry or too slowly or whatever, or just messing about too much. We all like to mess about to one degree or another, but there's a limit when it stops being funny and starts being annoying or awkward, and there are also times when it is less appropriate... (You are sometimes pushing the boundaries, but generally in good spirit. )
    Yeah, I know that, not proud of it. And I try not to annoy anyone, I want to make ppl laugh
    Don't want anyone to think I am a crazy bitch that doesn't take stuff seriously. I do when I want to and if we have to be serious I will be that too

    But anyway. I think it is good to kick ppl that not follow the 1,2,3 steps that RIDEBIRD wrote before. I think that will help us from too young or immature kids. Hopefully it will work
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  2. #782
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    Draft policy for dealing with problem players...

    Hey all,

    As mentioned a little back in this thread, Esoteric Reverie and I have volunteered to put together a draft policy that formalises how we deal with problem players. We have also put ourselves forward for enforcing it on the few occasions it is necessary. I have pasted the draft below, and would value peoples comments. Once we have something nailed down, I would suggest it goes to the next meeting for final agreement.

    Let me know what you think,

    Wibbster


    This policy is intended to handle situations where the behaviour of a member of the outfit consistently offends a significant number of the other members playing the game.

    It is not intended to replace the application of common sense. 99% of problems can and should be resolved with a word at the time. What follows is only meant where this has failed and problematic behaviour is ongoing.

    As a side note, a few members have suggested that we introduce an age limit, but there was opposition to this for the following reasons:


    • The outfit is organised as a way for readers of RPS to play together. There is no age limit in place for viewing the site, so there shouldn't be one in place for joining the outfit.
    • Immaturity and/or bad behaviour is not limited to young players. I have known very mature twelve year olds and forty year olds who behaved like toddlers.
    • This type of problem is going to be very rare. The introduction of an age limit would be like using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut.


    So, onto the policy...

    • If a player's behaviour consistently falls outside the bounds of what is expected, and this is agreed by a sufficient number of members then they shall be contacted by a responsible member of the outfit. What 'a sufficient number' means is up for debate. A suggested approach would be that this kicks in when at least two people have raised concerns separately, and these concerns are confirmed as reasonable by whoever is taking responsibility for following this procedure.
    • The exact method of contact is not important as long as it is done privately, but a separate Mumble channel would be preferable.
    • It shall be explained to them what the problem is, what they need to change about their behaviour, and that they are at risk of being forced to leave the outfit.
    • Agreement will be sought from the player that they will change their behaviour.
    • If they do not give their agreement then they are kicked from the outfit.
    • Even with agreement, the player's future behaviour needs to be monitored, and lapses will result in them being kicked from the outfit.


    We need to keep a record of people that have been kicked so that everyone is aware of what is going on.

    And that's about it.

    So far the following players have confirmed they would be happy to enforce this process on the rare occasions that it would be necessary. If anyone else wants to be included, then please let us know.
    - Wibbster
    - Esoteric Reverie

  3. #783
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    Draft looks good. Get a locked mumble channel called 'The Counselling Cupboard' maybe?

    Pretty much agree with everyone further up too. Keep doing what you do, Ridebird! We need leadership and you are one of the best, pretty sure that everyone appreciates your input. Just please don't burn yourself out if it starts getting stressful. Moxxi, the silliness is great, but the fact that you are good at the teamwork/listening side of things is also great. Think that both elements are important in the outfit, they complement each other.

    There is definitely room for teamwork training and tightening up on squad-play nights. Speed and responsiveness is something we should always be improving (redeploys etc). Personally I would like to see more organisation during the off-peak hours, when there is often a squad's worth of people online but no outfit group (tho this is the sort of thing I should probably just be stepping up and arranging myself).
    Last edited by Rizlar; 24-03-2013 at 08:29 PM.

  4. #784
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I remember being the sortof instigator of stratgir in a sense; it was me that ridebird referred to when it was first conceived: I absolutely hated the lack of voice comm control. everyone talking at the same time. So I shouted about that. and I lead stratgir soon after with mediocre success.

    My point is- I'm not trying to say that Im responsible for serious tactics in RPS, not by a long stretch- just that I equally desire to lead a tactical team i to battle. but I also want to mess around, talking about choppas and the maid and how hitler would have done it. (without jew; OMG I MAED A FUNNEY)


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  5. #785
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Draft looks good.

    Ridebird, you're a great platoon leader and I have the greatest confidence in you when you lead. I think what the problem is here is fear; people are concerned that if we go a little bit towards the more organised play that we'll carry down that path. Now, that simply isn't the case as we've been at this for a few months now, but it's an understandable concern. It's certainly not aimed at you personally, but at the nebulous being that is the outfit itself.
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  6. #786
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grible View Post
    If moving forward as an "Outfit" means getting a tiny bit more "professional" then I don't personally have a problem with it. What does that entail?

    Training?
    a Fixed comms setup and comms procedure?
    Set "moves" for taking a base/area?
    Squad internal co-operation? Covering each other, breaching rooms, staying together, load outs?
    I didn't really want to get in to these specifics yet, all I wanted was generally to check that my experience that most of us are okay with moving to a more organised thing was not just my opinion. You Grible was the first to say "I prefer split comms, but others.." etc, and made me consider that whole thing.

    I just want us not to limit ourselves because we MUST represent RPS. For example - age limit. I fully agree with it not being fair due to maturity and such, and I didn't think that through really. I do think the argument that RPS doesn't have an age limit is exactly what I mean though - we should not let ourselves be hindered by such things. Note - the age limit is just an example of this kind of argument made, I have changed my stance and I agree that it is not needed.

    As you say, we should let it mature. The "philosophical" side of the thing most seem in agreement with. In practice that just means such things as designated HR folks and some set procedures that help us in those few cases they are needed.

    I won't go in to specifics of what I am thinking of in what it means for gameplay, but yes, such things as learning to stick together and actively trying to do that is basically the jest of it.
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  7. #787
    Network Hub Grible's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you mean in reference to me there Ridebird. I do prefer split comms, but not all the time, what can I say - I'm a puzzle. - but I know that a few times there have been objections, I don't think I'm just imagining that? My only serious wobbly over it had more to do with timing than intent. I do not however like leading the platoon in a split situation.

    I suspect JG hit it on the nail a few posts back as to the overall mood. But with ~60-100 regular players and an average nightly attendance of a platoon at high water then we do need to think about the main bulk of the outfit not just the people represented here on the forums. The fact more peeps ought to be on the forums is perhaps another point!

  8. #788
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    It may not harm to change the outfit message to recommend that people investigate the forums. It's currently only serving as a cursory welcome and a reminder that we do things on Wednesday and Thursday evenings.
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  9. #789
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Seems that the ten or so people who have pitched in so far are pretty much on the same page, so far so good.

    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    It may not harm to change the outfit message to recommend that people investigate the forums. It's currently only serving as a cursory welcome and a reminder that we do things on Wednesday and Thursday evenings.
    I've just done just that. Let me know if you think it's okay.


    And to lay one issue to rest, I've had a chat with SecretPrototype. He has expressed ernest interest in playing with us and I'm willing to turn the other cheek. He has agreed with roughly the terms laid out in the draft Wibbster posted. He has been on Mumble tonight, though silently, and I expect no trouble. Let me or Wibbster know if there's an issue. But SecretPrototype, if you read this, you need to reply to /tells though, mate!

  10. #790
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    The in-game comm system is poor. Many people simply don't know about /tell or /reply. We also have plenty of people who sit in Mumble but do not speak - I don't think anyone has a significant issue with that. Many of those people do reply in platoon or outfit chat, which while hardly ideal, is certainly better than straight-up silence.
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  11. #791
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Today with some friends I played Terran, now I feel bad. I've shot at our own units. But they were on another server, so I don't think I risked killing any of you.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  12. #792
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    The in-game comm system is poor. Many people simply don't know about /tell or /reply. We also have plenty of people who sit in Mumble but do not speak - I don't think anyone has a significant issue with that. Many of those people do reply in platoon or outfit chat, which while hardly ideal, is certainly better than straight-up silence.
    Yeah, the systems are a bit opaque, especially if you're new to that kind of game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Today with some friends I played Terran, now I feel bad. I've shot at our own units. But they were on another server, so I don't think I risked killing any of you.
    But... why would you do that? Show your friends the path of enlightenment instead.

  13. #793
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I tried, they wouldn't drink the kool-aid
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  14. #794
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Pah. They were not worthy of Vanu's legacy.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    It may not harm to change the outfit message to recommend that people investigate the forums. It's currently only serving as a cursory welcome and a reminder that we do things on Wednesday and Thursday evenings.
    Really need to get a thread like this one sticky-ed so we can put the ground rules / basic operating manual at the top. >.<

  16. #796
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    who needs an emperor when you have divine intervention?
    - Tom De Roeck.

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  17. #797
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Grible - I meant that you were the first person that said "I _myself_ prefer split comms, BUT" and I then heard that same thing a good five times. That made me think. Finally I came to the conclusion that I have never heard a single person say that they personally did not prefer split comms when Mumble is messy. All I remember is a couple of people, JG being one, saying that they did not want to play in stratgir.

    The rather large majority seems to fear change in such a way that we move away from RPS or become more strict, when the truth of the matter is that I have started seeing it as we kind of all strive for more organisation, purpose and effectiveness and all are frustrated by the lack of it. All I wanted to say was that I think we, the regular players, should decide the way the outfit goes from what we want - not just basing it on either new players or some general thought that we MUST be a specific way.

    We are a good 100 regulars and we should decide what happens and push for the changes we want and need. That was the basic, more abstract, idea I wanted to air out, since I was quite tired of hearing the same old arguments without seemingly any real connection to members opinions.

    I think this game is highly pointless without some direction. Again, this does not mean hierarchy and/or strict orders. It rather means that we actually try to work together at all times. We currently are not a very cohesive unit and we very much lack teamplay. I also think 99% of the outfit prefers playing together in the sense that we are also actually playing beside eachother in-game.

    The simple solution for this that works is splitting comms and organising them by squad. This works. If we don't want to do this all the time, we need to train, practice and get across the idea that this outfit is about working TOGETHER - not just trickling in as single units with a common association with the tag [RPS]. I am sure that it can work when we are just in one platoon as well, but we need to foster the mentality of teamplay and community.

    I just wanted to clear the way for more teamplay since I have basically daily felt limited in this regard, as I did not want to say "GO HERE" unless we were in squad comms. My experience has been that ordering people on casual nights is a deadly sin and you are a horrible person for trying. I know you might think "that's not how it is!", but when every proposal you bring up is met with fear, you start yourself to fear to try to do something about it.

    For example, I was quite afraid to voice my opinion regarding more squad play last meeting, but to my surprise no one spoke out against it. This is what I mean - there is an irrational fear that we are moving in a way people do not want, when most people at least seem to want it.

    Now regarding the forums and those of us that voice our opinion - sure, we are small group. But everyone (at least SHOULD) joined via these forums and know of them. They are welcome to join in, but I think most are not very interested and would rather just play in the way we currently play. I don't think we should regard the silent majority as innate naysayers to proposed developments, but rather the opposite.

    To clarify.
    - I don't want any specific changes in organisation. I just want us as an outfit to do what is best for us.
    - We should limit invites to BLs and beacons to avoid recent situations.
    - HR team is a great idea and I am very glad someone else will handle that.
    - We should try to foster teamplay and to always work together, something that we can try to achieve by starting training drills where the goal is to work together as a firing line and a fighting force.
    - Our number one thing we lack in gameplay is aggression. This is why we get overrun by TR and NC outfits - they are aggressive and have medics to back them up. We need to work on this and the teamplay thing so that we are moving as one, always forward, relentless and unstoppable. This does not mean I or any one else will start calling our enemies various racial slurs, but rather that we PUSH and stick together. We are too passive.
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  18. #798
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    (everything he said)
    Well put, mate. I can't find a thing here with which I disagree.

  19. #799
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    Agreed with everything Ridebird said above. Wouldnt be able to put it any better.

  20. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    Snip
    I agree too.

    I prefer 12 or 24 man comms; I never feel like I can talk otherwise since I'd always be interrupting someone (except for specific game stuff like getting a mag gunner or warning about a max).

    I also prefer playing when someone has a plan, I think the more specific the better. I enjoy all the classes/vehicles mind you so I'm not likely to get told to do something I hate. I still remember the organised max crashing of the crown in galaxies several weeks ago, we may have died quickly many times but it was still glorious.

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