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  1. #1201
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    Though my nasty RO experience certainly coloured my view of yesterday evening I all in all had a good time as well. Both with the special giraffe group (for the short time that I was present) but also with the main, chaotic, half-drunk mad group. I was bent over double several times from laughing

    I'm kinda torn between liking the banter of the big group and loving the more personal, tactical nature of the squad based play their own comms. There is, I believe, room for both but as Esoteric points out it also depends on someone taking charge. What I did notice is that after Esoteric asked for the second time (in chat) while I only saw 4 X's we ended up with a complete squad after all. Maybe a good many people don't wanna "stand out" and feel guilty for "leaving" the main group? Or maybe I am over analyzing...
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  2. #1202
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardancer View Post
    I really do not see the problem with yesterday you wanted to splitt off you got a bunch of guys the rest of the people online were either new players that wanted to see what we were up to or old players that just wanted to blow off some steam by drinking and mainly zerging about. There was no grumbling about people splitting off, hell it was encouraged but if people do not want to split off there is no problem. Sure the guys who really wants to will not get what they want but seriously did any of you get any kind of indication that people wanted a seriously play last night?
    Yes, all the things you say are true, and I could see that people were having a good time. Splitting off, at around 22 or whatever the time might have been went just fine, and we had a good time too. The problematic part for me was what came before these things. To be honest, it seems that increasingly, what I want (and a couple of others with me) might not be what the outfit in general is aiming for. Now, that is okay, and maybe I should move, or find some other group that wants to work more on strategy and tactics. But it seems like such a fucking shame, because when this group gets its game face on, we're actually getting rather good, and I really don't want to lose that. I don't really see how to solve it either, aside from me going off to play with other people on those nights when I want focus, and the hivemind wants to just relax.

    Damn, I'm becoming such a drama queen... :/

    OK, look, I don't begrudge any of you guys just shooting the shit and relaxing last night, I really don't. It's just so damn frustrating to have seen what this game CAN be, and then not get to have that on those nights when I have time to play without distractions. Sorry for becoming so emotional about this...

  3. #1203
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    Yes, RPS is not going to be deadly serious every evening that has never been the goal of RPS. We do however try to do serious shit and actually try to win sometimes but that is not going to be every night. Especially not a night that comes right after Call to Arms. Most people here wants to win as well, and we do. We have a pretty darn good squad/comms structure now. We have a few really good leaders and many good players that can turn the tide in battle. But that will not, should not be every night.

    And really, it is not like we did especially poorly yesterday? Sure we did overextend quite a lot on Amerish but we did hold our own even with the somewhat haphazard coordination and cooperation.

    But I get what you are talking about Eso I just think that yesterday was good, at least I needed that kind of PS2. Hell it was what I joined RPS at the start.

  4. #1204
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    I propose two things:
    -A war council. Not an outfit meeting. We discuss operations and tactics and what we want to achieve, how and to what degree we want to commit. These discussions will end if people have clear expectations of the outfit's capabilities and goals.
    -A one-time-only tactical week. With the exception of Wednesday, each day at 8pm we do tactical play. Sole goal to bolster the cohesiveness and efficiency of the outfit. The experience seems to carry over to the casual days. So if we drill ourselves how to stick together, how to move and how to place sundies, those thing will keep happening even during casual days. Normal operation will resume after that.

  5. #1205
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I have to add to that: the ns2 team was tight. toight. toight as a toiger.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  6. #1206
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I have to add to that: the ns2 team was tight. toight. toight as a toiger.
    My point exactly. We have people from NS2, from ArmA2, people that have organised teams for BF and other multiplayer FPS' tournaments. And yet their organisational and tactical experience doesn't seem to transfer.

  7. #1207
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Also, a single, simple but of significant impact change:

    From now one noone should ride in another squad's sunderer or galaxy.

  8. #1208
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I feel the need to clarify a couple of things, to moderate my previous posts somewhat:

    The play style yesterday was not entirely mindless, for instance Grible often pointed out that people should stick together, and not run off in ones or twos, and that's very good. We didn't do that two months ago! But I want MOAR! This intense tactical play is like some kind of drug for me. I'm really hoping we can find a solution somehow.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    I propose two things:
    -A war council. Not an outfit meeting. We discuss operations and tactics and what we want to achieve, how and to what degree we want to commit. These discussions will end if people have clear expectations of the outfit's capabilities and goals.
    -A one-time-only tactical week. With the exception of Wednesday, each day at 8pm we do tactical play. Sole goal to bolster the cohesiveness and efficiency of the outfit. The experience seems to carry over to the casual days. So if we drill ourselves how to stick together, how to move and how to place sundies, those thing will keep happening even during casual days. Normal operation will resume after that.
    I approve of these suggestions! Wouldn't mind sitting down with those who want, tonight, to talk through a couple of ideas that have been bandied about, concerning how to please all manner of players on any night of the week.

  9. #1209
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    I propose two things:
    -A war council. Not an outfit meeting. We discuss operations and tactics and what we want to achieve, how and to what degree we want to commit. These discussions will end if people have clear expectations of the outfit's capabilities and goals.
    -A one-time-only tactical week. With the exception of Wednesday, each day at 8pm we do tactical play. Sole goal to bolster the cohesiveness and efficiency of the outfit. The experience seems to carry over to the casual days. So if we drill ourselves how to stick together, how to move and how to place sundies, those thing will keep happening even during casual days. Normal operation will resume after that.
    I really like these suggestions. But if we go for a whole week of tactical play: can we please wait a couple of weeks before we do that? I really want to be a part of this, but real life issues mean that I can't get serious faced for the next few weeks.

  10. #1210
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LaKroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    When is the next outfit meeting?
    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    Wouldn't mind sitting down with those who want, tonight, to talk through a couple of ideas that have been bandied about, concerning how to please all manner of players on any night of the week.
    Next outfit meeting is tonight at 8 pm (UTC+1).

  11. #1211
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Oh, there you go then...

  12. #1212
    Network Hub Grible's Avatar
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    I should point out I wasn't drunk - although the last bottle of Marston's Pedigree was lovely thank you very much.

    When I joined in around half eight there was a main group under Oak and a handful of people, about five or so in each, Charlie and Delta'ing. It appeared that the comms situation wasn't working too well and that Oak was having difficulty keeping the platoon as a whole on target. After a few minutes (or longer - I find time quite subjective in game!) the Delta's and Charlies re-merged in mumble.

    Then the platoon as a whole did some fighting on Indar under Dewi - which I think actually worked fairly well and given that the lock was under pressure helped out the Empire. Then Eso, who was clearly looking for a more focused evening than the majority, asked about for others of a like mind and got around a half dozen who dropped into their own in-game platoon and mumble channel. I deliberately moved into the Alpha RO channel in order to stay in contact. The main group then spent about half an hour "pissing about" which was good fun, I thought, and actually (more by luck than judgement) helped defend Mao and push a bit south, resulting in cutting the TR off on Indar. I think this might be the time of the bad radio experience Frengler was talking about, I couldn't hear him very well and I think he was having issues hearing me and the link between the groups was broken for a bit.

    Then an Alert was called on Amerish, the specials moved over fairly quickly and after a bit of confusion coloured by Dewi's face going numb the main body moved over too, reluctantly abandoning our turkey shoot at Copper Ravine. By now Eso had appeared in my ear as the special RO and as people in the main body seemed to have blown off much of their steam we were able to fight fairly effectively out of a bad situation on Amerish. After a while Dewi went off and I inherited the platoon, still talking to Eso. Being quite tried and "day after-y" I think I lead them into a bit of an over extension, at some point the specials folded back in, we got cut of and hammered at a bio lab and everyone went to bed.

    It wasn't the best of nights strategically, but it was far from the worst, the splitting/rejoining seemed to work fairly smoothly.

    You can't make people be more serious - although I did do a fair bit of trying to get people to group up, and calling gal drops and getting redeploys and so on and the main group responded admirably, the fight at copper ravine was fantastic, with us holding off large numbers of tanks and air all while discussing beer, making puns and relating how Edinburgh is the best city in the world.

    I too love the tactical play with the rapid responses the covering each other and so on, and if I wanted to do that I would have joined Eso's squad, I actually considered it but then I got stuck in a ditch and that was just too silly to pass up. Swinging from one to the other is fine by me, I think the salient point here is that with the best will in the world, Dewi and I encouraging people to go, there were only a handful of people on last night to play in that tighter focused way, the rest were just chilling out with lasers.

  13. #1213
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    It was the first time I'd been on for a week, and I thought the split to a smaller squad for more focused (and a little quieter) play went as well as we could hope. It was fast, there was no grumbling or complaints, and the setup allowed everyone to play in the way they wanted to. I for one will sometimes seek the quieter group, but also enjoy the louder, more relaxed style depending on the mood I'm in, so as far as I am concerned the way things were organised was ideal.

  14. #1214
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    I should really offer my 2 cents here as I was main driving force behind the deviating-from-the-agreed-comms-rule thing.

    I had a blast night. Leading too (and my head was fine this morning Grible, Ha)! The sense that I got, pissed as I was, was that everyone in the big group (I don't like the term "main group" since it feels like the other group is less important, which is not the case at any time) was also having an awesome night. A purple giraffe to everyone who took part and joined in, you made it an awesome night, not me.

    Comms were split twice. The first time there were 6 people in charlie and a handful in delta. Delta was actually on another continent due to Indar queue woes. I spoke to Eso privately about remerging as 6 people in one channel didn't make sense to me and as far as I could see people were enjoying being in this big group. I might have pushed my agenda a bit hard; it just simply didn't occur to me at that point that those people may have wanted to split.

    I did encourage people playing the game how they wished after that though. I'd never hold it against anyone to enjoy playing a computer game they way they find most appealing, hell it's why we play the damned things. Overall I think the night worked out for the best for the most people, in both the big group, and the focused group. But I think that was because a little common sense was applied.

    And this is the point to my post here. In my opinion this debate about comms, should we split, should we not split yadda yadda is spiraling well out of control. We are here to play games. Fact. We are here to have fun. Fact. Every person experiences things and has fun in different ways. Fact.

    I appreciate the compromise of A+B, C, D channels, but it just doesn't make sense to force people to use it. And it works both ways. Let me give a couple of examples:

    30 people online, all 30 want to stay in the noisy big loud group because it's being a very entertaining evening. Going by the compromise 6 people are going to be in their own channel on their own. This detracts from their experience and could possibly affect their experience or "fun levels".

    On the other hand we could have 24 people online but 12 want to split their comms. This situation is trickier as it is all or nothing, but then other factors should be taken into account (e.g is it early evening, will more come online etc).

    The crux is, common sense. And, this is mostly to the BL's and beacons but applies to everyone, instead of asking to make split comms, just inform the platoon you ARE forming split comms and people are more than welcome to join you. This relieves the majority of making an open decision and thus the responsibility of it. You'd be surprised how quick people are to follow. Of course, discuss it with the current Pl either through tell or ask to speak in a private channel like I did with Eso.

    Everyone is entitled to enjoy the Outfit as they wish. Remember we are here for the readers first and foremost. Being an effective fighting force or a place for the masses to hang out are very much secondary objectives!

  15. #1215
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Agreed. This debate is so annoying.

    Anyone is able to suggest and do whatever they want. There is no forcing anyone to do anything. Mumble facilities are there to be used. If anything happens, it is because people have actively chosen to do it.

    In light of that, everyone's decisions and actions should be respected accordingly.

    If you have an issue with anything at all, either discreetly talk to the person/people involved or seek out Wibbster or Esoteric.

    No need for pre-evening comms prep. No need to organise anything in advance. No need to get worked up about anything at all. Just go with the flow. Nobody expects anything of you. The whole point is that you enjoy your gaming experience. If people branch off and do something that you dont agree with or dont want to be involved in, then dont. Leave that situation behind. You should respect and understand why and move on.

    People are always going to be open. There will never be any annexing or splitting off in terms of us as an outfit.
    Planetside 2 - NickTheNegligent // Steam - Nick

  16. #1216
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    If people want to play Serious Business Planetside, they should go ahead. They should not however, dictate how the rest of us play. This, for example:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Also, a single, simple but of significant impact change:

    From now one noone should ride in another squad's sunderer or galaxy.
    would be a complete 180 from the (great) lassiez-faire style in which RPS is currently run.

    Also, if there were to be a week of tactical nights and strategic comms, I'd probably run casual platoons for those who don't want to deal with all that jazz.

  17. #1217
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    If people want to play Serious Business Planetside, they should go ahead. They should not however, dictate how the rest of us play. This, for example:



    would be a complete 180 from the (great) lassiez-faire style in which RPS is currently run.

    Also, if there were to be a week of tactical nights and strategic comms, I'd probably run casual platoons for those who don't want to deal with all that jazz.
    It is not about Serious Business Planetside. It is about providing some structure in the chaos that our growing numbers are causing. 20 people in a casual squad works great. But it does not scale up. If we try a 2-hour tactical session for a week (and only a week) plus stick to moving with only and only the squad's transports, people will find it easier to know where they want to be. This way, no more stranglers, no endless discussions of where anyone should be, just by following some simple guidelines that will make everyone's life easier.

    Also, it is not that laissez fair, since our playstyle does not allow for much use of armour or aircraft. After all the subsequent buffs to AA and AV, and the introduction of the ESRLs and especially the MANA AV Turret, it is extremely difficult for aircraft and especially tanks to survive without support from infantry.

    I've been lead by you in a casual context, and you were brilliant and decisive, moving groups in support of each other, from different directions. And I agree with you, that usually when doing tactical, squads are not that supportive of each other as the casual groupings sometimes end up to be. I think that that is also something that we need to work upon.

    That is why I propose a week of tactical 2-hour sessions. Work out the kinks, find out what works on the squad and the platoon level. During this week, we should avoid for the most part on going after major strategic objectives, like locking continents and so on. Just play as per usual, only in a slightly more organised manner, where also more people can participate in the banter.

    I maintain that casual and tactical are not opposites and mutually exclusive. But we need a way to make it work. Enforcing either play style upon those who prefer the other should not be the only option. The two styles should be complementing each other. A casual platoon could work great in tandem with an air squadron, or a tank column or a couple of Shock Troops/SpecOps squads. But we need to work out a framework on how to achieve that. And trying tactical for a week, to work beyond squad cohesion and go to intra- and inter-platoon coordination would lead to that. Reducing the variables, we can more effectively discern the patterns and ways that coordination can be achieved, and this experience be transferred back to making casual and tactical work in tandem.

    It doesn't sound that relaxed or easy, but I believe that constantly talking about it makes it sound like that. I also feel that one of the reasons of existence of this outfit is to provide a gateway for the greater RPS community to Planetside 2. The sandbox experience, the social interaction of such a great number of players, the epic battles, the whole monty. If we put in this effort now, we'll have achieved providing such a gateway where everyone and anyone can come and join, and experience the game the way they feel more comfortable with, and also be able to explore other sides of it. ArmA2 and NS2 players to just hang out, FPS noobs like myself to frag, casual players to suddenly be fascinated by strategy and tactics.

    tl;dr: growing pains
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 13-04-2013 at 07:33 PM.

  18. #1218
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    To repeat myself.

    We need people to organise training sessions
    This is almost getting to the point of me needing to beg for this. We need it. Especially now we have so many new players. I am shit at the FPS mechanics in PS2 and so cannot do these myself.

    As for the comms situation. It seems to me a constant problem is that splitting comms, squad or compromise, requires everyone online to piss about in Mumble.

    The whole point fo the 'special giraffes' system was that those who want something other than a single messy channel extract themselves. Simply asking people to 'x up' in outfit if they want tactical play should give you some idea of how many people that night want that style of play.

    Edit: I have also so many times asked that we have "stop and start" moments at the beginning of peak playtime (about 7:30pm UK time). A time when we get a new PL, setup liaisons, organise leadership mentoring etc etc. A time when we can sort a comms system out that suits everyone who's online. A time when we can get a briefing and then set a time for a debrief (again, somthine like training that so many other outfits do that we don't).

    When I'm online, I try to make this happen. But I alone am not online enough to do this. it needs other people making it happen.

    There are a number of outfit habits we need to develop. Training and a "briefing / debriefing" system. Things I have been asking for since February.

    Please, tell me, what do I need to do, what do I need to provide (better claendar systems?) to make these happen? Because me asking for them is not enough...
    Last edited by Cooper; 13-04-2013 at 07:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  19. #1219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    As for the comms situation. It seems to me a constant problem is that splitting comms, squad or compromise, requires everyone online to piss about in Mumble.

    The whole point fo the 'special giraffes' system was that those who want something other than a single messy channel extract themselves. Simply asking people to 'x up' in outfit if they want tactical play should give you some idea of how many people that night want that style of play.
    And in my opinion this worked excellently and exactly as it should last night.

  20. #1220
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    I'll try to get myself up to speed with the Vanu guns in VR over the next week. My fiance is going to a 5-day conference so I have the luxury of sitting around in my underwear after work, drinking whiskey and maintaining poor personal hygiene for a while. No promises, but I can probably come up with some tips for handling the default weapons and suggested Cert paths for a starting player.

    As for tactics I'd love to see us set up a Light Assault Herd that can form and disperse as needed for dealing with some of the more difficult bases and terrain, but that's as far as I thought it out. The training sessions seem aimed toward newbies though, right?

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