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  1. #801
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksempac View Post
    I thought about this, I would add some stuff to the SL guide :
    - Before the beginning of the operation, ensure that all SL leaders can communicate to each other, through their whisper key. No squad should leave if one SL isn't responding to others SL. (Btw, is the whisper key limited to your unit ? or can you talk to all SL regardless of units ?)
    - Get an idea of who is on your team : Gal pilot, Medics, Engineers, Infiltrators, AA capabilities are things you're gonna need during the fight, so better check that you have people able (and willing) to fulfill theses roles. It's also a good way to introduce yourself, be friendly and get to know people before the fighting start.
    Actually, I would even get as far as to recommand a standard squad requirements. Something like "you need 2 medics, 1 engineer, 1 infiltrator, 1 gal pilot in your squad". I do not have enough experience to offer the best set-up, but that something we should think about, so that every squad can be efficient and self-reliant. If you get a squad where no one is willing to play medic (or nobody asked them to), you're starting with a disadvantage.
    Although personally I agree, this is not the way the outfit is set up, there is no required progression or predetermined squad composition. But we can always make sure that we check squad composition and ask for volunteers to switch classes. At least we have this going on for us: people always show good humour and will, and will adapt if requested. It's just that we have not developed the reflexes to do that without going through that.

  2. #802
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Yes I definitely agree we shouldn't force people to change classes. The most important thing is that the outfit is fun for everyone. That's why I said "people able (and willing)". I would much rather leads an unbalanced squad where people enjoy what they do, than force them to play a class they don't want to play that night.

    My idea was more about avoiding 3 situations :
    - You have 6 people who wants to play the same important class X in Alpha, but none in Bravo. You should swap some people between the squads (whereas currently, people joins randomly) before the fight actually begin.
    - You lack a critical capability and you don't know it. Ex : no one in your squad is an experimented Gal pilot. You should know about that, and do something about this (swap with others teams) before the fight.
    - People are willing to play an important role, but you didn't ask them to do it, so they don't know they are needed. Let's say you have one guy (let's call him Charlie) who like playing engi/medics. You already have 3 people playing engi that night and no medic. If you check your squad current set up, you will be able to spot the inbalance, and ask if someone wanna play medic, and Charlie will say "yeah ok, I will do that".

    Theses are extreme situations, but they do happen, because most people don't check their teammates classes/don't see what is needed. Again, if I ends up with an imbalance but everyone prefers to keep their current class, then I will roll with that. But at least, I will know I lack capability X or Y.
    Also the "standard squad requirement" would be more like a guideline for newbie SL ("what is a balanced squad") than a strict requirement. If the standard say "you need 2 medics", and you have 1 or 3, you know your squad is more or less ok.
    Last edited by Ksempac; 03-05-2013 at 11:09 PM.

  3. #803
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    Haven't attended a StratGir night for a while, so might be wrong, but regarding group compositions it seems like we should always be able to get a good mix of classes in any given squad. Most of us have a few classes we play (if not all of them), so I don't see that it will ever be necessary to switch people around in squads just to get a balanced group. Specific requirements might be trickier like needing infs/bursters/galaxies, but it is more a case of just making sure someone pulls one.

    Basically, in my experience it seems a case of encouraging people to check their squad's composition and try to fill any gaps, or reminding people to pull specifics.

  4. #804
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Squad composition should be something the Sl keeps an eye on.

    Rather than mandating compositions, I'd agree with Eclectic. There's enough willingness that we can just ask when it is needed. Forcing people to do things is not something that fits well with how we roll.

    We do excpetionally well with asking niceley and being willing to help out. Let's stick to that.
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  5. #805
    Activated Node zekone's Avatar
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    Do you find that people play certain groups of classes? E.g. engineers often also play medics, or heavy's also play MAX's? I can't see any consistency myself, though it might be good for people to try to think of a way to group the classes they like so that they can easily describe them to an SL, e.g. "I love to be in the thick of combat" or "I enjoy supporting roles", to give SLs a brief overview of who is in their squad.

    Could this even be something that's asked at the start of an event, so the SL would ask people in turn what classes they enjoy, before setting off for the evening's festivities? Rather than trying to remember exactly which class everyone plays, I think it'd be easier to remember "zekone likes supporting roles".

  6. #806
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    Oooh, squad lead guide

    - Finding good fights and keeping your platoon entertained is immeasurably more important than holding territory or winning alerts or keeping locks. None of those things matter beyond e-pride. None of those things are why people have logged on to listen to you talk for several hours straight. If a fight is massively imbalanced in either direction, you should have no qualms about pulling everyone out and setting up on the other side of the map or on another continent.

    - Abuse the shit out of squad deploy to shuttle your platoon around without a five minute transfer window at the warpgate.

    - If you squad lead a lot, invest in Squad Beacon to get it down to a 90s cooldown, and invest in Ejection Seat for your Scythe. Inventive beacon placement will win you a surprising number of stalemates.

    - Ignore the cap points until you've secured the vehicle terminal and got a Sunderer. Getting on points is rarely hard; getting a safe spawn often is.
    Last edited by cfftble; 04-05-2013 at 04:18 AM.

  7. #807
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    Oooh, squad lead guide

    - Finding good fights and keeping your platoon entertained is immeasurably more important than holding territory or winning alerts or keeping locks. None of those things matter beyond e-pride. None of those things are why people have logged on to listen to you talk for several hours straight. If a fight is massively imbalanced in either direction, you should have no qualms about pulling everyone out and setting up on the other side of the map or on another continent.
    Good point, but with a caveat. Imbalanced to our favour may just mean that the odds will be even at the next region. Imbalanced to their favour may mean that we are holding them down, or that we are not doing as well as we can. TRAM never goes for a fair fight. The moment they meet significant resistance, they call in everyone:

    We should do the same, especially with the upcoming lattice changes.

    Also, fun is a balancing act. Depending on the night, it might mean anything from derping about to finding the most challenging fight.

    As for the e-pride comment, keeping in mind that this is just a game and nothing more, pride in our outfit, faction and achievements should always weigh heavily in our decision making. Also, besides in-game rewards, there is a developing metagame, and especially on Miller a significant part of it is that Indar is Vanu. All Vanu, and especially this outfit, were forged during the defense of Indar, the Party at Scarred Mesa Skydock and so on. TRAM and NCTO were formed as an answer to the initial Vanu cooperation. Vanu cooperation won the UES. Our rank for Platoon Leaders, Balloon Leader, came up as a slip of the tongue during an exhausting extended session, where after three days we capped all three continents.

    Finally, it is an outfit policy, agreed upon during outfit meetings, to support TVA and the VS in general. If anyone disagrees, bring it up during the next meeting. It is not an anathema. This is a game, and we should have fun. Also, this is a community, so everything may and should be discussed openly. If exploring the developing metagame does not sound like fun to the majority of our members, then we should change our policy. Until then though, every SL and PL is expected to operate towards the current democratically decided upon goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    - Abuse the shit out of squad deploy to shuttle your platoon around without a five minute transfer window at the warpgate.
    Generally agree, but it depends. Sometimes redeploying to the WG breaks the flow, and thus the concentration, plus it waste times. Other times though regrouping and starting fresh is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    - Ignore the cap points until you've secured the vehicle terminal and got a Sunderer. Getting on points is rarely hard; getting a safe spawn often is.
    This. Very much this. The most dangerous weapon system in the game is the Sunderer. Because it spawns everyone and anyone. Also, there is not such a thing as enough Sunderers. One is none, it will be blown up. Two are none too, the second will be blown up after the first. Three we can make do with, now we have a chance for some flanking. Fou or more, now we are talking. Hack the terminals, always go for the terminals first. And when defending, destroy the terminals.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 04-05-2013 at 06:32 AM.

  8. #808
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion going on here! BUT, I'd still really like some more feedback on this checklist, even if that is just to say you think I'm a silly bugger for proposing the need for a bloody CHECKLIST, of all things. So, I repeat:

    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    To streamline things for next time I've composed a suggestion for a checklist that we can use when setting up for Strategic Thursdays. I find that the setup takes a lot longer thatn it should, and I believe that having a clearly defined procedure for it could cut down on the confusion, this always turns into.

    Do you think this is a good idea? Is this the right things to do? Did I miss anything, include things that are uncnecessary?



    Preparations:
    • Before the event, read the guide for PLs. It contains the most important things you will want to do be a good PL.
    • Make a plan. Decide on something to do, at least a first objective.


    What you will need:

    • One liaison to keep contact with TVA and other outfits.
    • At least 4 SLs, who really should read the guide for SLs.
    • One RO for each SL, who should read the guide for ROs.
    • Two of these ROs should be platoon leaders for the platoons, to offload all of the management duties, allowing you to focus on leading the group.


    Setup:
    • Assign SL/RO pairs to at least the following four squads: Alpha, Bravo, Echo and Foxtrot. Make sure everyone knows their designation.
    • Get Alpha and Echo ROs to start up one platoon each. Have them invite their SL and the other SL/RO pair (alpha+Bravo and Echo+Foxtrot), so that each platoon contains two squads.
    • Platoon 1 is Alpha and Bravo (extensible to Delta), platoon 2 is Echo and Foxtrot (extensible to Hotel).
    • Have all SLs open outfit recruitment for their squads. Make sure they include the word "stratgir" and the squad name (Alpha, Bravo, Echo or Foxtrot for the first four squads) in their recruitment description.
    • After recruitment has been opened, you can verify that squad names are correct, and then join either one of the platoons. Ask to be put as SL in a squad of your own, so that you get access to leader chat.
    • Now that recruitment is up and people are dropping in, have SLs join the RO channel. Brief your SLs and ROs on the general plan for the first foray into the wild and point out any things that you want them to keep in mind.
    • Remind SLs that they have a private channel to the other SLs in their unit!


    Moving out:
    • Before setting the herd loose on the world, take a minute to address everyone. Say hi, present yourself and your action plan, so that everyone knows what is going to happen first. If there's anything in particular you want people to try, let them know.
    • Start rolling! Once out in the wild, follow the general guidelines of the guide to PLs, and try to delegate as much as possible of any management work to other people.

  9. #809
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    Oooh, squad lead guide

    - Finding good fights and keeping your platoon entertained is immeasurably more important than holding territory or winning alerts or keeping locks. None of those things matter beyond e-pride. None of those things are why people have logged on to listen to you talk for several hours straight. If a fight is massively imbalanced in either direction, you should have no qualms about pulling everyone out and setting up on the other side of the map or on another continent.

    - Abuse the shit out of squad deploy to shuttle your platoon around without a five minute transfer window at the warpgate.

    - If you squad lead a lot, invest in Squad Beacon to get it down to a 90s cooldown, and invest in Ejection Seat for your Scythe. Inventive beacon placement will win you a surprising number of stalemates.

    - Ignore the cap points until you've secured the vehicle terminal and got a Sunderer. Getting on points is rarely hard; getting a safe spawn often is.
    Need to take these (very good!) comments into account somehow, without making the guide to long.

  10. #810
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Triple post going here, but there is really no-one who has any kind of feedback on the checklist two posts above this one?

  11. #811
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    inventive bacon placement!
    - Tom De Roeck.

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  12. #812
    Network Hub AlfieV's Avatar
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    It's not so much feedback on the checklist (i've never been a PL so can't really comment, other than they all seem sensible enough), but one of the first things to be done on any organised night should be to pick a continent to fight on and let everyone know.

    There's nothing worse as a grunt than hanging around/messing around for 20 mins waiting on comms etc getting sorted out, only to find that you're on the wrong map, and there's a 15 min queue to get to the right one! The time it takes for PL/SL/RO to test comms and go over the plan, should be the same time that grunts use to get to the right warpgate.

  13. #813
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Excellent feedback, Alfie! Added to the checklist. As a subscribing member, this is very rarely an issue. Though it might be during the month of May, come to think of it...
    Last edited by EsotericReverie; 06-05-2013 at 02:17 PM.

  14. #814
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I dont have any advice for PLs other than sometimes you need to ignore calls for falling back and trust your defending instinct. calls from grunts and sls I mean.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  15. #815
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yeah, that is a good point, Quanta! We often pull out a bit too soon, when in fact, we could win a battle with a little bit of planning and coordination. Also, don't hesitate to ask the SG to reconsider a redeployment if you have a feeling that you might be able to break a stalemate or hold off an offence. It is possible that the SG just wanted you to go somewhere where you'd be more effective, in which case staying might still be an option. It may also be that you are desperately needed somewhere else, in which case you should go immediately of course.

  16. #816
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    After last night's CTA's, I made a similar post in the thread, but it's probably better suited to be here I'd like to echo what Quanta is saying.

    I was in Platoon 3, Delta. At several points in the night we were being called away from fights that we were either winning or that we could've acted as an effective tar pit to be called in to "prepare" a bases defences for a fight that never really happened. I believe this happened because the PL possibly didn't actually ask us what's going on and just decided we needed to move.

    An example of this is that we alongside another squad or two where holding off a push through tanks, infantry and air from TR at Indar Comm Array with pretty good results. We were winning, they didn't even have a single point. Then we got told to come back to prepare Quartz Ridge for a fight so we did. We lay down our mines, got out sundys and repaired the turrets. Then the fight never came. After five minutes we were eventually told to move again. At some point, Quartz Ridge did finally get pushed on, but they never got near the door. Ridebird took delta into enemy lines where we took out several beacons before getting moved elsewhere again.

    Something similar happened with Old Auraxium, where delta got sent backward to help cap I think Stronghold and as soon as we got there, got the terminals and started flipping points we were told to abandon it. At that point I'd had enough and called it a night.

    I guess the point of this is either to just vent or to bring awareness that either the PLs need to ask for reports before reassigning people from fights they can win or RO/SL need to inform the PLs that pulling out would be a mistake.
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  17. #817
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    I was in Platoon 1 so i can't comment on your situation, but giving periodic reports to PL and carrying messages from SL to PL is the RO job.

    I know that when SG asked for the second mass Gal drop of the night, my squad was in a winning fight not too far from the Gal drop objective so i asked my RO to tell PL that it seemed to make sense for us to stay (and we wanted it) .
    PL replied that he was up to us it was ok either way. So he stayed (and btw we saw all your Gal flying over us that was awesome)

    So i don't know what happened for you, maybe the PL had major objectives you weren't aware, or maybe he wasn't aware of your exact situation, but the thing you have to remember is that it's always possible to ask clarification /suggest things to your PL
    Last edited by Ksempac; 10-05-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  18. #818
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    That was probably because of Ridebirds flying. He flies like he's hyped up on coffee, it's kinda awesome. He also presses f-12 to take screenshots then gets confused when the gal starts to drop out of the sky.

    And I know in some cases it is required to fall back or to move out to a new location, but at no point did any of these calls seem right or urgent.
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  19. #819
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    After last night's CTA's, I made a similar post in the thread, but it's probably better suited to be here I'd like to echo what Quanta is saying.

    I was in Platoon 3, Delta. At several points in the night we were being called away from fights that we were either winning or that we could've acted as an effective tar pit to be called in to "prepare" a bases defences for a fight that never really happened. I believe this happened because the PL possibly didn't actually ask us what's going on and just decided we needed to move.

    An example of this is that we alongside another squad or two where holding off a push through tanks, infantry and air from TR at Indar Comm Array with pretty good results. We were winning, they didn't even have a single point. Then we got told to come back to prepare Quartz Ridge for a fight so we did. We lay down our mines, got out sundys and repaired the turrets. Then the fight never came. After five minutes we were eventually told to move again. At some point, Quartz Ridge did finally get pushed on, but they never got near the door. Ridebird took delta into enemy lines where we took out several beacons before getting moved elsewhere again.

    Something similar happened with Old Auraxium, where delta got sent backward to help cap I think Stronghold and as soon as we got there, got the terminals and started flipping points we were told to abandon it. At that point I'd had enough and called it a night.

    I guess the point of this is either to just vent or to bring awareness that either the PLs need to ask for reports before reassigning people from fights they can win or RO/SL need to inform the PLs that pulling out would be a mistake.
    As PL 3, I asked for reports. Half of the time they just never came. I'm sorry you had a bad time, but if I have poor information I can't make correct decisions.

    I have no idea why you were defending at Quartz Ridge, in the time I was PL I gave no orders to defend that. Platoon 3 was on the eastern side of the map up until the mass gal/tank rush to Indar Excavation. Were you not in some other Platoon?

    Another thing is, even if we are winning a fight it does not mean we are helping. A lot of times we were ordered to pull out of a winnable fight because the territory was soon to be cut off or otherwise made irrelevant.

  20. #820
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    This all happened after that gal/tank rush to Indar Excavation and then as well after you left for the night Boris, sorry I should have clarified that.

    The fight at Indar Comms was not unwinnable or pointless. We held them away from it before we were told to pack up and leave and effectively gave them Indar Comms so that we could fight them one base down at Quartz Ridge. There was no cut off and it was a defence that we were told to leave. I'm not the only person in the squad who was unhappy with the decision but we followed our orders on it.

    And of course if you don't get info you can't make the best call. If people read through my comment they'll notice I also said that the RO/SLs can also be at fault for not relaying information back to the PL.
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