[VS] Strategic Giraffes: Thursday nights the Vanu get "a bit more organised"

[Sceptrum]

I was not in today's Strategic giraffe run due to work, but glad to read communications wise it seems to work nice.

A thought though; If the plan is to have dedicated fire squads, like AA, AT, dedicated medics, light assault rapid strike teams etc. maybe ask in a thread what people are aiming for when spending certs & SC? We have the "what have you certed for" thread, but it might be nice for PL & SLs knowing what the prefered roles for some members are.

Me personally, I'm aiming for Heavy Assault & MAX to be my main loadouts with focus on AA, AT & AI, with Medic & Engineer certed a bit into and weapons bought for situations that need them. Will also get some sidegrades for the Magrider and Scythe, so I can use them when needed (along with Skyguard Lightning). With this info, you would know you could put SceptrumVS on AA or AT duty as I got the sidegrades for it and cert points.

Editted for missing words and bad grammar.

[Tom OBedlam]

The Comms were much much tighter and it was far easier to work out what was going on whilst I was playing. Instead of have PL separate from everything and removed from play, could the PL simply be the person who orchestrates the decisions of a council of SL and fireteam leaders? That way, we could have four full squads capable of acting independently and cooperatively, whilst allowing the PL to get to play them game with the rest of us?

As for Charlie, I thought we were working pretty well together. Of particular merit was using flashes to scout ahead of the sundi so we had an idea what we'd be facing. Speaking of which, the aerial platoon were sensational to see in action. I looked up once and saw eight scythes in formation shooting over the roof of Tumas Tech, very inspiring!

[MrEclectic]

Last night was hectic for sure, and even frustrating at times, due to the TR zerg. Although that had its moments, as when we tried to push out of Tumas Tech Plant to the NW, but run head on into a TR tank column, with lots of infantry. Held them on the ridge, regrouped back at the Tech Plant, but then eventually got overrun there. Frustrating, but we stood our ground for a bit against overwhelming forces. There is satisfaction in that aswell.

As for the comms and order structure experience, I enjoyed it for the most part. I felt a bit more useful yesterday, and our SL BasicPaul (Delta Squad) did a great job of keeping tabs who was up and who was down, what the flow of the battle was, and calling people to specific tasks. Although, due to the zerg, we were dying a lot, and that was what determining who were in fireteam A (still alive in the thick of the battle) and fireteam B (just respawned, try to go around the ridge eg). And as for the rest of us in the squad, we were able to relay more information to the SL and to the rest of us, since the comms were clearer.

What I missed from the Serious Giraffes of last Wednesday was the bigger picture, especially when capping larger facilities. It would be nice knowing for instance that we go for cap point A, while Charlie pushes for B, and so on. But I do realise what a strain it must have been on the PL and the SLs.

All and all, considering that it was a sort of an experiment, conducted under the worst possible circumstances (zerg, plus I believe we faced a couple of well organised squads/platoons), it wasn't bad for a start.

[EsotericReverie]

Agreed with previous posters. Had a blast yesterday! Much cleaner comms and clearer directions. Delta squad was awesome! Big thumbs up to Paul and Nick and the rest of the guys for the tight coordination. It is not easy to both run a squad, keeping ahead of the curve, and try to "play the game" all at once.

I personally liked the infantry night assault of the amp station the best. All those heavies along the mountain ridge, firing synchronized volleys of plasma at the clump of armour outside the gate shields, medics keeping them alive, and the one engineer topping up ammo supplies. Fabulous!

Instead of have PL separate from everything and removed from play, could the PL simply be the person who orchestrates the decisions of a council of SL and fireteam leaders? That way, we could have four full squads capable of acting independently and cooperatively, whilst allowing the PL to get to play them game with the rest of us?

I believe the problem is that you currently have to be SL to be able to join the global command chat. But it is also very difficult to both lead a squad of your own, setting waypoints and giving orders and directions while also keeping an eye on command chat, the continent map and what the other squads are up to.

We need to be have platoon leaders be able to join command chat whatever position they're in in their respective squad, I believe. They'll likely patch this in sometime, I'd say.

[Sublett]

The 12 man comms corresponding to the 12 man squads were great in my opinion. Prefer it over the 24+ comms.

Squad leaders should utilize the waypoints a bit more, pointing out where to gather up for sunderers, what direction to attack bases from etc. Generally a SL just plot a waypoint down on the base and that's that. Could also be used to point out hostile sunderers when your on the defence.

And the platoon waypoint should generally just point out the big picture, like tech plants and bio labs. Then leaving the decision to the SL to go for specific bases around that point. Also the squad leaders choice how to approach that base, with gal-drop or sunderer etc.

The schyte squad was quite fun the first few minutes, but unable to sustain a permanent scythe squad due to time restrictions. I like the whole idea of having an aircavalry cover other squads but, think it's a decision that also should be with the SL, the same as a gal-drop or sunderer push.

Basically freeing up time for the PL to actually play some aswell, hopefully.. Though the main time constraint there I guess is the swapping people between squads.. Hopefully SOE fixes this soon so people can move between squads freely.

[EsotericReverie]

On major base assaults, I suppose the Squad Objectives upgrade could be useful to get clearer directions. It allows you to set Attack/Defend orders on a squad level by using the Q button on one of the base facility icons on your HUD (cap point, generators, SCU etc.) Don't kn ow if it can be used on enemies as well, to designate fire targets. Has anyone tried this?

[RIDEBIRD]

I thought that objectives thing was just for the entire world to see, but yes, if it works that way I'll get it.

If I'm going to be PL in the future of these things, I will run it as I did the day before yesterday, where I'm directing squads and playing in one squad. That way you get to shoot stuff but can give orders. It's quite impossible to be SL and PL at the same time.

I will be approaching a more independent way of handling things if so as well, so as we clear up the orders a bit more and make them more general. PL should be strategic, SLs should be able to handle the tactics part ("they're capping the external base - grab it/they have a sunderer over there - kill it").

[EsotericReverie]

I have the squad objectives stuff. We could try it out sometime, before you spend your hard-earned certs.
http://wiki.planetside-universe.com/ps/Squad_Objectives

[Jesus_Phish]

I agree with RIDEBIRD in that I think 12 man squads are just too small, particularly when you come up against a zerg. There's not enough places in a 12 man squad to fill all the roles required.

I also felt like classes and squads weren't being utilized enough. Perhaps its because people kept changing as the fighting went on or perhaps its because it wasn't needed or perhaps it just wasn't noticed. I don't think LAs and Infs were utilized enough in the roles they can play, hacking terms and destroying generators and generally sneaking around being pests.

Perhaps we need to make better use of fireteams and assign them to tasks before we get into a base rather than "ok, B needs help, lets go there".

If we're attacking a tech plant, we should decide before hand, what teams are going to what point and then they only leave if they're told to. I know it says you need 2 guys to cap B, but if those two guys had four more guys they'd be able to hold it a lot better if they get rushed by a HA.

It seemed we were still just going where the fight was, instead of following orders along the lines of
alpha squad - fire team a, take and hold capture point a, fire team b, take and hold b
bravo squad - fire team a, take and hold the first generator, fire team b take and hold the second generator
charile squad - fire team a, take and hold capture point c, fire team b, move together through the bases hacking or destroying terminals and AA.
delta squad - get in armour or air and support the platoon.

By the way, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or insult the SL or PL who all rose up and volunteered and led us, I'm just voicing how it felt to be on the ground.

[President Weasel]

The 12 man comms corresponding to the 12 man squads were great in my opinion. Prefer it over the 24+ comms.

Squad leaders should utilize the waypoints a bit more, pointing out where to gather up for sunderers, what direction to attack bases from etc. Generally a SL just plot a waypoint down on the base and that's that. Could also be used to point out hostile sunderers when your on the defence.

And the platoon waypoint should generally just point out the big picture, like tech plants and bio labs. Then leaving the decision to the SL to go for specific bases around that point. Also the squad leaders choice how to approach that base, with gal-drop or sunderer etc.

The schyte squad was quite fun the first few minutes, but unable to sustain a permanent scythe squad due to time restrictions. I like the whole idea of having an aircavalry cover other squads but, think it's a decision that also should be with the SL, the same as a gal-drop or sunderer push.

Basically freeing up time for the PL to actually play some aswell, hopefully.. Though the main time constraint there I guess is the swapping people between squads.. Hopefully SOE fixes this soon so people can move between squads freely.

The scythe squad was excellent, but needed:
1) More scythes
2) me having flares so I got killed less often
3) possibly a Forward Air Controller in charge, rather than a pilot. I don't know if anyone would want the job, however.

The problem we discovered was that it was very difficult for Nubbx to fly and to set waypoints at the same time, and it was very difficult for us to check the map and set personal waypoints while flying.
If we had someone leading the platoon from the back of a sundy, they could say things like "air support needed at Heyoka Tech, squad waypoint marked" and then we could easily open our maps and set the personal waypoint there, then "recon request of the amp station, waypoint marked" and then we could set our personal waypoint there and go check it out.
A couple of times we got recon requests but had trouble finding where we were meant to go - it didn't help that we spent a couple of minutes looking for the "[Something] Camp" we'd been instructed to find and not "[Something] Amp"

[bonkers]

Maybe we should put the flyboys together with a dedicated G2A squad so they also have kind of a safe zone where they can repair and lure enemies to, also the organizing could be done by someone in G2A.

Overall going back to 24 maybe isn't that bad of an idea because it would allow the leaders to split their forces. Sending six people there, there other six another way (flanking etc) doesn't cut it in many situations. We often needed larger numbers. So I think 24 people controlled by one "major" SL would be better.

[CALkulon]

Now that I can finally post after some activation email cockups, just wanted to say that despite being unable to make last night's action I'll be all over this in the future. Is there any sort of plan for the double XP weekend?

HyakuIchi in game by the way.

[CMaster]

OK, so I wasn't there, but collating the feedback, together with a few ideas:

• Maybe the PL should make more effort to be at the actual locations, even if that's just sat in a sunderer watching?
• I don't know what the numbers were like, but perhaps the dedicated infantry squads should be put in together, so warnings like "sundie behind that hill" or "tank column moving in from west" get spread around?
• Role Specialization - I don't think this wants to be overdone - my feeling is that each Infantry squad should make sure they have all the roles they need, and can swap around a few people as the tactical situation changes (perhaps have some people nominated to switch to burster max when AA needed?). A dedicated air squad seems good, although is it pure scythe for CAP, or a scythe and upgraded libby mix for a full set of air support? I think a dedicated armour squad would be good too, mix of upgraded mags and lightnings (5/2 or 4/4 mix), to break through enemy lines, smash turrets, force enemy inf inside for our inf to finish the job. If redeploying across the map, could join inf in the first round of gal drop.
• More feedback from SL/FTLs to the PL about the situations? How heavy resistance is, how much ground is being gained etc? Don't know how that actually was.

[laldy]

I enjoyed last nights activities, even though frustration set in at times due to constantly butting our heads against the TR's zerg.

In Bravo squad I feel I still had plenty of opportunities to attempt irreverent comments without disrupting Ridebird's orders, I only hope that this was true

I agree with the comments above that a single squad is not really enough folk to achieve anything on the ground in the face of determined opposition, and the subdivision of the squad to deal with individual objectives was counter-productive at times, in that it made it almost impossible to take and hold a control point for any length of time when only 2 or 3 folk were moving to a cap point.

In my never humble opinion, the platoon should always operate as a unit, with a possible subdivision into 2 infantry squads, an armour squad, and an air squad, with all heading to the same objective e.g. a tech plant.

On assignation of a target, the Air squad moves in first with the Scythes to establish air superiority and then maintain it. With possibly 4 of the Scythes dedicated to anti-armour operations (Libs are not as effective as a rocket pod carrier...and require too many folk to operate effectively within a platoon).

The ground units move in once AS is established, although they should get close enough to move in quickly (without exposing themselves to enemy air), and keep the sundies safe from A2G (with air maxs?), even at the expense of the infantry having to run 1-200 metres, led by our armour moving in to help deal with opposition armour and finally the infantry moving in (close behind the tanks).

All surrounding spawn/ teleport/ jump pads should be taken before heading into the main objective. At this point, half of the armour should actively be hunting for enemy sundies/ spawn beacons. We must cut off the enemy's ability to reinforce.
Once we are ready to assault the main cap points, only then should the infantry squads subdivide, with at least 6 moving to each cap point, even if it only requires 2 to actually cap it. 2 actually cap the point, the others cover the entrances to the cap point and protect the cappers.

[RIDEBIRD]

Think that sounds pretty great Laldy, but I also think that we should be able to split in two when needed. But yes, I think we all agree that 12 at one point is just too few. Will be going with 24 as a "squad" in the future, where the two seperate squads can stick together (as can fireteams) in infantry combat in the way that laldy describes.

I will probably split it up as follows in the future, and I think we will mostly be rolling together. Splitting up is good, but I think we need to mostly move together. Anyway, like this:

Alpha + Bravo - infantry. Rolling in sunderers and gals, spawning tanks when needed. Setting up spawn points. Securing capture points and other ground targets. Generally moves together but splits in squads of 12 when needed (inside a bio lab for example). I still think fire teams is just way too few people. If so the SLs will have to split themselves. Both of these are in the same channel on mumble.

Charlie - armor. Mostly mags with Sarons, an AA lightning or two, and some AP lightnings. Seperate channel on mumble. Leads the charge on the ground, covering the infantry. Hunts down enemy armor and sunderers.

Delta - air. Two liberators, eight scythes. Must have Dalton or Zephyrs in the libs, one pilot and one gunner in each. If that cant be organized, its an all scythe squad. Moves in and secures air superiority and most importantly scouts.

[RIDEBIRD]

Wrote a long post about how to organize it in the future, got ye old "moderator must approve" again, and apparently they never do, or that's just a bug.. Anyway, basically how laldy describes it is how I'll be going for it.

One important thing tho - I will be going for 24 in infantry squadron or whatever, then 12 as armor, 12 as air. I think you can achieve a lot with 12 people in vehicles, but infantry needs to be 24.

[CMaster]

So yeah, general feelings for the best are:
2 Squads inf, shared chat? Perhaps drop the fire team leader roles? Inf work together, but will split by squad where effective (eg Alpha on A, Bravo on C, etc?). Takes objectives on attack, defeneds objectives/provide AA on def
1 Squad armour. Priority on enemy armour. Supports inf assaults by AoEing grouped enemy inf and hunting down sundies. On def, tried to get good fire lines and hold back the advances up the hill. Self repairs?
1 Squad air. Priority one is clear the airspace. Priority 2 is hit enemy armour?

What if we have more than 48? Additional inf squad, air bumped into new platoon (but stays as working with the group through mumble). Alternatively, if we only have a few extra, say 3 or 4, we could have a dedicated recon squad. People who head out in scythes/flash at the PL's request to see what the situation is at likely targets. Hopefully reduces the chance of showing up somewhere to find that the Zerg is already there.
What if we have less than 48? Proportional reductions across the board, or should one of the sections (armour?) take the hit first?

Also - nominated Gal pilots and sundie drivers for each inf squad, to keep things simple for when the PL wants a move out?

Edit: In principle I'm willing to do the PL thing, but my previous bash at it (wed daytime) I was a little indecisive, and I don't know the maps that well yet, so somebody else would probably be better.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I had a good time last night, although I lost my way quite a few times.

Being colourblind though is a major, major ballache. I could distinguish two colours; one being Blurple and the other Greenyred. I was in a Purple squad which meant that squadnames looked exactly the same as normal friendlies, it was far easier to distinguish Greenyred names from friendlies, but quite difficult to distinguish Greenyred names from enemies.

The confusion was further confounded by the fact that purple squads waypoint was Greenyred, whilst the platoon waypoint was also Greenyred.

There's more... Apparently, once someone from purple squad is in a vehicle (eg, a Sundy), then their name turns Greenyred as well. Suffice to say, I think I made it into the correct Sundy twice.

On the positive side, it was great to team up with such nice people, and I'm sure the suggestions about platoon organisation will continue to improve the experience.

I'll be back for more, but I hope SOE introduce some element of HUD customisation as I was totally lost a lot of the time

[Sublett]

The scythe squad was excellent, but needed:
1) More scythes
2) me having flares so I got killed less often
3) possibly a Forward Air Controller in charge, rather than a pilot. I don't know if anyone would want the job, however.

I think that the real problem is that when the enemy take out your scythe, and you have 5 minutes left on the timer, what do you do? Some would probably wait it out. Others would join the random ground forces for a while, then try to find an air terminal and get back.. etc.
It becomes a bit random as to what your supposed to do once you are without your tool of destruction..

I do believe that the primary roll of the scythe squad would be to take out enemy liberators, since there is no good counter to them on the ground currently (usually too high up for burster maxes). "Liberator above Bravo squad" would be enough for the PL to direct to the scythe squad.



Also... I do think that the moto "keep it simple" should be applied more. A lot of complex ideas where people have dedicated roles and all... It should be more flexible in the beginning while people learn how the whole SL -> PL, joining squads, joining mumble thing works...

[Heliocentric]

God.. That's hassle. I remember someone made an nvidia settings file that simulated colour blindness and they showed screen shots of lots of big games.