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  1. #761
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    also note: the ns2 team was great fun. looking forward to playing with them again soon!
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  2. #762
    Network Hub Felisc's Avatar
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    Hey guys. Felisc from the jolly ns2 troop here.
    Thanks a bunch for yesterday evening, everything was lovely and I had great fun.
    I don't think our "skills" translated in any particularly brilliant manner as there was so much information to process... Planetside 2 is a complex game ! My slow brain took its sweet time to ease itself with the mechanics.

    Thanks again Quantacat for your glorious squad leadership. And CMaster for your commanding. And er, moxxi for your driving, I guess ?

    So... any of you own NS2 ? Join us on Sunday ! Do it !

  3. #763
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    A Corps of Giraffes

    Post copied to the following thread. Please use that for discussion:
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...l=1#post288016


    Last night was amazing, and as many others and I have posted in the Purple Giraffes of Awesome thread, great job PLs, and especially CMaster.

    Nevertheless, this is the thread about us being more organised, so I believe that we should also analyse what worked and especially what didn't.

    I think we can all agree that the current setup we have does not scale up. Also, because of the communications overload, the PLs and SLs get overwhelmed, operational planning and tactical coordination is problematic and people in general log off after the evening's done with a headache.

    Our introduction of a RO has been extremely helpful in alleviating some of these problems inside a platoon. We need to scale that up to a multi-platoon plus specialised squads (SpecOps, Rapid Response Team/RRT, Air Squad etc). We need to consider introducing a general staff squad, a Tower of Giraffes, coordinating all our assets during multi-platoon operations. Or leading the Corps of Giraffes, if you will.

    My take on this:
    -Per squad, as now, SL and RO
    -Per platoon, a PL to coordinate the squads, and a RO to communicate with the Tower
    -The Tower is a separate Platoon consisting of:
    • One General Staff squad, where the SG and the TVA comms liaison seat.
    • One Air Squadron (this may be split into two squads, for better tactical coordination, eg "watch your tail" and operational assets allocation, etc)
    • One SpecOps/RRT Squad


    The General Staff squad will also act as a RRT squad, so that the SG can be present on the main front, seeing firsthand how the battle flows (and the SG get some playtime). He/she may also delegate some of the comms to other members of the squad.

    Under such a setup, platoons are assigned fronts, and have the freedom to tackle their operational objectives as seen fit. Strategic assets may be requested by the individual SLs and PLs, and assigned by the SG. Besides the SG communicating with the PLs, the General Staff may contain one Air Control Officer per Platoon. ACO will receive requests for CAP/CAS from PLs or maybe even SLs of a given platoon.

    This setup may sound complicated, but it is just a rough sketch, so we can work out the complexities and intricacies. Nevertheless, I believe that it will give a clearer picture of what our capabilities and disposition on the field are. And as for communication delay, under the current setup I hold that it is even worse, since people get confused, and conversations take too long until it is clear who addresses whom and about what. Also, under the current setup, it is very difficult to coordinate tactically on a platoon level (our squad level tactical play is coming along nicely), and operationally among the whole of the active giraffes for the evening.

    Especially for PLs, such a setup will allow them to coordinate tactically their squads the same way SLs coordinate their squaddies. He/she can request Alpha and Bravo to pin the enemy down, and Charlie and Delta flank from the sides, for instance. And he/she has only 5 things to worry about: 4 squads and one General Staff SG/RO.

    Same thing for the SG: he only talks to 1-3 PLs, one TVA Comms Liaison, one Air Squadron and one RRT.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 12-04-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  4. #764
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    The above setup also has another benefit: it standardises our communication process. On each tier, the leader coordinates his/her subordinates, and communicates to his supervising tier through a RO.

  5. #765
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    And I don't want to be the "I told you so" guy, but... On our first meeting, I had suggested the use of ROs, but people said it would be too complicated. Preparing for last night's event, others and I had suggested that the SG communicate only with the PLs, and not directly with the SLs. Again, it was considered too complicated.

    I strongly believe in a systemic approach to complicated problems. Every solution must identify the core functional elements of a workflow, and aim for isolation of individual functions and grouping of similar or closely related functions. That way, each component and each tier is only concerned with the messages going in and coming out, not what goes inside the components on its tier and the tiers above and below.

    I also believe in clear and well-defined frameworks, that are well understood and agreed upon by all those concerned. Any kind of system, team, grouping and institution that does not operate in such a manner, relies mostly on the effort and understanding of certain individuals. Their skills and comprehension of the framework do not propagate throughout the team. The team also has only a vague understanding of what goes on, relying on those members. Who then become incredibly powerful (not that they abuse that power usually, but it is what it is). When those members leave (got tired, new job, fed up with the game - it applies everywhere) their institutional knowledge and understanding vanishes with them. And it is very difficult for new members to fit in, after the initial period, because the institutional knowledge is hidden within certain individuals.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 12-04-2013 at 09:22 AM.

  6. #766
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    if you feel that the above fit into another thread, such as the organisation or perhaps the mumble one, do comment and I will move it there.

  7. #767
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    Alternatively,
    The supreme giraffe could handle the four platoons (maximum) while a radio operator could coordinate with allies. No?

  8. #768
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silgidorn View Post
    Alternatively,
    The supreme giraffe could handle the four platoons (maximum) while a radio operator could coordinate with allies. No?
    We already have a Comms Liaison role, distinct from a Radio Officer. Also, under my proposed setup we may try cool things, which we rarely do know, like combined arms with Close Air Support and Combat Air Patrols. We usually suffer from lack of air, and I feel our pilots don't get the chance to fly as much as they'd want to. Also, the SG will have one squad at his disposal at all times to do things like scouting, insertion behind enemy lines, etc, which may also be a preferred venue for our more sneaky members

    Under such a setup, we can also accommodate more play-styles. Casual, tactical, air and vehicle play, etc. Each supervising tier uses its available assets taking under consideration their capabilities, as dictated both by force composition and disposition, but also the particular preferences of each unit.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 12-04-2013 at 09:13 AM.

  9. #769
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    Anyway, i'm not sure i know how things work up of squad-leader/ radio operator, so i'm fully ok with about anything (out of coded communications, please).

  10. #770
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    So basically (if I get it correctly) the idea is that the leaders, be they SL/PL or whatever, don't communicate directly across channels? They make the decisions and the RO's for each leader (squad level as well as platoon level) receive orders from higher up and pass them on as well as communicate questions/sit reps back up the ladder. It sounds like a sound theory and closely mirrors real-life military comms setup (different from country to country of course). It should free up time and work from the leaders since they pass on what they want/need to the RO and can after that focus on formulating strategy/tactics for their squad/platoon rather than spend that time communicating directly.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  11. #771
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frengler View Post
    So basically (if I get it correctly) the idea is that the leaders, be they SL/PL or whatever, don't communicate directly across channels? They make the decisions and the RO's for each leader (squad level as well as platoon level) receive orders from higher up and pass them on as well as communicate questions/sit reps back up the ladder. It sounds like a sound theory and closely mirrors real-life military comms setup (different from country to country of course). It should free up time and work from the leaders since they pass on what they want/need to the RO and can after that focus on formulating strategy/tactics for their squad/platoon rather than spend that time communicating directly.
    Pretty much yes. Squaddies among themselves and to their SL, Squad Radio Officers among themselves and to their PL, Platoon Radio Officers among themselves and the SG or in this particular case the Tower Radio Officer. Same kind of logic across all tiers.

    If needed, when discussing grand strategy, leaders may pop inside the RO subchannel and discuss things directly with their supervising leader. This should be rare, only during lulls, and when planning the next op.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 12-04-2013 at 09:31 AM.

  12. #772
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Pretty much yes. Squaddies among themselves and to their SL, Squad Radio Officers among themselves and to their PL, Platoon Radio Officers among themselves and the SG. Same kind of logic across all tiers.
    I've seen it used before in-game (Bad Company 2 and BF3) and it worked beatifully. It might take some getting used to by the leaders but when it works it works great. The key to making it work are good RO's and judging by what I've seen (and read on the forums) we have some solid people who can pull it off.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  13. #773
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Opened up a new thread for strategic, operational and tactical discussions:
    A Corps of Giraffes:
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...cal-discussion

    If you'd like to discuss my post, or any matter concerning our strategy, operations and tactics, please use that. Sorry for inflicting crossposting upon this forum
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 12-04-2013 at 10:01 AM.

  14. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Sorry for inflicting crossposting upon this forum
    Never, just never cross the streams!

  15. #775
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Hello all, as Felisc mentioned above, those of us who usually play NS2 had a pleasure playing with you all, and I hope we get another chance to do again soon. Thanks to all involved in the organisation, and special thanks to Quanta, Pepper who were our RO and SL and also to CMaster who must have a giant brain to process all the information he was getting last night.

    Cheers! (if you ever get the urge to play Natural Selection, come join us, we'd love to have you it's half price on GMG at the moment /shamelessplug)
    Last edited by Sketch; 12-04-2013 at 07:09 PM.
    steam: sketch

  16. #776
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    yeah and moxxi for keeping us patched up.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  17. #777
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch View Post
    Cheers! (if you ever get the urge to play Natural Selection, come join us, we'd love to have you it's half price on GMG at the moment /shamelessplug)
    Sold! We'll see when I 'll actually be playing.

  18. #778
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    yeah and moxxi for keeping us patched up.

    Oh yes of course, woops thankyou for the heals too.

    @Eso, welcome, there is no going back for you.
    steam: sketch

  19. #779
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Bump so eclectic posts his plan in here!! And not in TACGIR.

    Things for you to consider MrE: You will likely have two platoons, or at least 1,5 not one. Plan for that. Consider that we have a lot of new people. And I think you need to scale back specificity, like 2 scythes in the air at all times. There's about a 1000 things that can go wrong with that plan. Keep it flexible.
    Find me on the Steams

  20. #780
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Tomorrow night, since it is Strategic Night, how about we do this:
    -Alpha: scout/intel/force recon. PL sits here. Alpha always moves about in the battlefield, identifying targets and coordinating the rest of the squads.
    -Bravo & Charlie: mechanised infantry. Maneuvers, mechanised infantry, armour, AA/AV batteries. Will act as support to Delta, watching its flanks, maneuvering with Delta as the pivot, acting as bound overwatch, etc. People that are interested in vehicle play join these.
    -Delta: shock troops/spec ops. Do it like Ridebird! The lunatics go here.

    Air Squadron:
    -Separate platoon, squad-strength, divided into two squads of 6. PL acts as Air Control Officer (ACO), receiving requests for CAP/CAS

    PL talks to the rest of the SLs. Alpha may have a separate SL that may also act as an XO when the PL is busy communicating with the rest of the SLs. I think we should avoid the usage of ROs.

    I'll do PL. I'd like Ridebird for Delta, Esoteric for Charlie, and how about volunteers for Bravo and AirSquadron? Also, an SG that is also Comms Liaisons. SG makes strategic decisions, like what, but not how, we are going to hit next and how we coordinate with the TVA. PL decides logistics and battle plan. SLs execute the battle plan, coordinate their squad on the field, and keep providing sitreps and requests for reinforcements.

    Under this proposal, major land grabs will be a bit trickier to pull. Instead of going wide, this setup is intended for going deep into enemy territory. Allied outfits could be requested to pull a TVA-wide hydraffe. We will split on occasion, but will always try to do that as a building step into concentrating in force from different directions. Last night, when we managed to reach the NC WG just by building momentum, was addictive!

    PS: I also think that the above setup could work in defence. Bravo and Charlie perimeter security, Delta counter-attack, Alpha moving about, scouting for sunderers and spreading chaos.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 17-04-2013 at 02:21 PM.

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