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  1. #1
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    Butlerz' Squad Tacticz Discussion -- Infantry


    Her launcher fired a boxing glove at someone , by the way. Higby pls?

    So! been daydreaming about squad leading and actually doing so for most eveningz this past week.

    But for the most part, I've been completely baffled by infantry tacticz in reality, thus the uzual "whichever class you feel comfortable with" I tend to say. It'z not quite az eazy az "AP Tankz and Skyguardz, ammo sundy, done." I think.


    Anyway, I've come up with some infantry tacticz revoling around a point/objective in a base, and I'd like some feedback and suggestionz for tacticz too -- really, any information about leading infantry would bee great.

    Theze squad ideaz are sort-of like the Lancer Squad I've been in beefore; a decided compozition and small battle plan/procedure.

    So, here are some likely silly squad ideaz from a clueless newbie leader;


    Point Holderz



    MAXimum Camping!

    4 MAX, 4 Heavy Assault, 2 Medic and 2 Engineer.

    They'd likely gal drop or simply crash a point building in an attempt to hold it, and after that, it'd bee a case of simply defending it with overwatch on entrancez. Medicz and Engiez staying safe, ofcourse.

    This meanz that at the very least I'd have a full squad to hold a point, otherwize I wouldn't bother really, and just find some other niche specific support task to do for alliez who need the help if I have my eye on a base.


    Hunting Squad



    Don't actually uze your pistol while flying, you silly soldier you.

    Light Assaultz and Infiltratorz.

    I'd likely assign the infiltratorz to radar/recon and sniping from remote locationz; towerz etc. , so they can pick off enemiez from flanking anglez.

    The LA would likely bee often ordered by me and bee the most micromanaged of the squad ; unlike alpha with itz "hold point until further orderz" eaze, I'd likely have bravo trying to move about a lot uzing waypointz to mark nearby buildingz/roofz to occupy, flanking locationz to jump into the base to start hunting from, and calling them to the point or to rescue/pull sundererz (no medicz make this important, and hooray for hacking and beaconz).

    Do you think this would work? I'm sure they'd die often, but I'm also sure they could have some very decisive momentz by dropping C4/Grenadez/Troopz on and beehind enemy pushez, and flanking iz alwayz a good thing to have when you can manage it. I imagine the point holding squad would absolutely love it if light assaultz started ambushing a point-crashing enemy squad from beehind by entering beehind the attackerz, too.

    Would you like some C4 with that MAX crash?


    Vehicle Support



    No steam trading card art goodness for vehiclez so far? :C


    A mix of engineerz and heaviez.

    Typically, vehicle pilotz would go engineer, but I'd appreciate 1 or 2 more for the ammo packz and turretz.
    I'd probably have half the squad in AP/Skyguard lightningz, with the other half guarding a shield deploy sunderer for (mainly) bravo to uze.

    Ammo and Rep sundiez az back-up would bee great, too; the heaviez could bee the pilotz too, so the lightningz dont uze nanitez and we don't have to mess about with vehicle ownership. Ideally they'd have bulldogz, ofcourse.

    The lightningz would have some fun farming the vehicle padz and guarding the sunderer from other threatz, the heaviez would bee a good force on the ground for anti-infantry (and wouldn't uze rocketz unless MAX or vehiclez appear during quiet momentz -- their priority iz anti-infantry).


    -----


    Ideally, we'd have enough people to put RPS on the map by having all 3 squadz filled out. Failing that, I'd enjoy working with friendly zerg by pulling off just one of theze (probably the vehicle support or hunter squadz).

    Like, I don't know about you, but playing for 760+ hourz meanz I'm pretty sick of holding objectivez in the way everyone seemz so fond of...

    I'd rather strike precisely than form a zergy frontline or yet more building camping, y'know?
    Last edited by SophiaButler; 30-09-2014 at 01:49 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Good discussion base! My 3 cents:

    Point holding is usually done with poor spawn options. Thus, 2 medics is a bit low, especially with 4 heavies.

    In the current meta, I would suggest sacrificing an engi (make sure the remaining one has maxed engi tool) and running 3 medics and 1 engi. This limits the probability of all medics dying in the same grande spam. However, this doesn't give space for an infil, and then you may as well not bother.

    Given how cheap (and especially given the no timer) maxes are currently, though, I would put in more maxes than heavies, giving something like 7maxes 2 medics 2 engies 1 infil. Heavies are good for some hot anti max rocket action, sure, but you know what else is good for that? Maxes with nebulas.

    That being said, the rezzability of heavies is excellent, and a room can be held well with a heavy heavy setup, sacrificing 2 maxes for another heavy and a medic, letting you res the room with grenades. Depends what kind of play you're after. If you can't protect against AV grenades then a max heavy run won't work but a heavy heavy run can work really well. Still want an infil, though.

    Generally, don't forget the infil. Enemy movement is the most important thing to know when holding.

    Regarding the point holding fatigue problem: I'm not there yet, but there are plenty of other strategic objectives to do than just holding points. I've long felt that the goal of RPS in defence fights is to render the enemy spawn options inhospitable, either by removing them or by cultivating useless spawn options turning their attack into a farm fest in our favour. These objectives save the base no less than standing at the point does, and can be more fun/viable for the current size of RPS in the engagement. During stratgir we can normally do everything, one squad on the point, one running around and a third bringing in tank backup.

    The one thing to look out for is finding battles for the sake of battles, in my opinion. This is ok for casual play, but it isn't what the game is about. Not that larger drawn out battles aren't fun, but the goal should always be to break the enemy; not farm it.
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  3. #3
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    I'd mirror Grumpy (damn for posting before me) about 1 infi in almost all base play. Esp. if there's an engineer in there that 1 infi can spam darts everywhere and seeing which door enemies are zerging from, means rest of squad can do better concentrated fire.

    LA squad might be good with only 1-2 infils circling around as snipers as spotters (possibly shoot the engies trying to fix the burning sundy, and i'm also thinking about if an excellent sniper could shoot and explode those C4 bricks that sometimes get dropped on sundy but the LA's die before exploding them). I love vehicle hunting as LA, esp. with smoke grenades on carbine).

    On vehicles: I love my AP lightning (the default veihcle for me to pull) and i do like my new skyguard, but i think as an outfit we'd need to practice and get more Air.
    If anyone wants to fly and i'm online, just ask and if i got the nanites, i'll most gladly be a wingman (even if terrible one but hey, i'll draw fire from you at least =)

  4. #4
    Network Hub SophiaButler's Avatar
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    Yeah, the infiltrator seemz important, and I think I'm going to try squad leading az one. The awareness an infil can achieve with sniping spotz and dartz seemz ideal for a leader. I'm not that confident with a rifle but, I'm not too bad either, I guess.

    I tend to call for someone to volunteer az infil uzually, so I guess I'll keep doing that (or go one myself). Sniping C4 brickz soundz fun, too, based on an episode of video game highschool I saw :P

    http://youtu.be/sAjKT8FhjI8?t=24m39s

    Also, how do the rez grenadez work? I've never touched them at all. Do they work differently on MAX than squishy?


    Really, I think I should just give up on holding pointz and run support squadz, they're more fun anyway. I'd love to have that LA/Infil squad picking off enemiez that are in grenade spam pozitionz, you know how much I love vehiclez, etc.
    The idea about mostly HA and more medicz seemz good, though. MAX are a bit.. ironman mode, really.


    Az for air, I'm going to bee running air squadz more often today. Likely not an entire air squad (I doubt we have 4 confident Lib pilotz and 8 confident gunnerz, or the finesse to avoid 12 scythez crashing into eachother while fighting a single target... or even, decent upgradez for our air vehiclez) but certainly something that can do precizion support strikez, single target assassination like sundererz and infantry blobz.

    It'd bee absolutely fun to have some lolpod or liberator air support to call in and protect with a skyguard/sundy blob ^^

    A propozal in the past haz been to have 2 fully operated libz (6 people, could cut down to 4 though) and skyguardz/ammo sundy set up at a nearby pozition. The libz would try to do bombing runz on enemy armour and if they encounter enemy air, they'd simply land and repair by the skyguardz.

    Ideally there'd bee an AP magrider too, to deal with enemy AA, but I'm confident that organized dual-liberatorz can take down a skyguard with focused fire beefore it takez them down. Whether I'm confident about RPS pulling that off iz another matter entirely; Other than a few, nobody seemz confident in piloting.
    Pretty much all 3 of theze are NSFW sometimez. Also very political. Also I'm a prideful, boasting bee about a lot of stuff.

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  5. #5
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    We've actually used forward operating bases (FOBs) a lot in the past as a repair/refuel/safe air space for an air squad, it works really well! We did one in a couple of inter-outfit big TVA events as well I think, providing a FOB for all of the VS air and that worked incredibly well.

    See also: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...nd-ground-crew

  6. #6
    Network Hub SophiaButler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    We've actually used forward operating bases (FOBs) a lot in the past as a repair/refuel/safe air space for an air squad, it works really well! We did one in a couple of inter-outfit big TVA events as well I think, providing a FOB for all of the VS air and that worked incredibly well.

    See also: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...nd-ground-crew
    Oh sweet, that soundz awesome. Though the plan outlined in the thread doez have the same problem with enemy AA; nothing to shoot that if it'z too strong for pilotz to deal with.
    Pretty much all 3 of theze are NSFW sometimez. Also very political. Also I'm a prideful, boasting bee about a lot of stuff.

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  7. #7
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    I'm considering going Hornets once i farm my next 1k certs only because of Skyguards. Maximum alpha out of short pop ups (2 people with hornets would pretty much instagib lightning that's standing still).

  8. #8
    Network Hub SophiaButler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graerth View Post
    I'm considering going Hornets once i farm my next 1k certs only because of Skyguards. Maximum alpha out of short pop ups (2 people with hornets would pretty much instagib lightning that's standing still).
    You'll hate the slow travel time, and the fact that you have to keep aiming in the exact same spot for them to fly straight after you fire. It givez them enough time to hit you, and they just don't work from long range at all either.
    Pretty much all 3 of theze are NSFW sometimez. Also very political. Also I'm a prideful, boasting bee about a lot of stuff.

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  9. #9
    With regards to the MAX hold point I would argue that the idea of doing a point hold is obsolete with the current meta, while they're effective in small fights against unorganised foes in a fight against a decent sized force or a organised force they're trivially easy to break. Most outfits now have methods to break these holds such as the standard MAX crash, concs or various other methods and since you're generally quite holed up theres no real warning that its coming other than a sudden surge of blue/red dots on the minimap; since the server is so large now due to the merge theres enough people to generally just brute force their way through onto a point as if theres one thing I've learned from playing Imperial Guard in DoW its that mass numbers can break through pretty much any defence if they have enough bodies to throw at it.

    You're generally better off doing Lane holds or setting up overlooking major access routes since then you can thin attackers down before they get to the point or have a chance to hit any support forces. They also give you somewhere to fall back too and continue fighting when you start to get overrun rather than the typical MAX/engi hold where once you start to die the squad gets wiped instantly.

    A full hunting squad would probably be effective at clearing its path but it would probably end up being a waste of manpower as they would need to stick behind enemy lines to be more effective than a standard group of players and they would mostly end up picking off small amounts of people or they would suffer heavy attrition. They would probably be good at killing Sundies but would suffer heavy losses on the way to the Sundy due to their sheer noticeability and may not actually be able to kill the Sundy at the end. A half hunter squad may be actually quite effective though, their smaller number should allow them to be slightly less of a target while not wasting resources. The major concern with it though is that LA's and infils are very squishy and tend not to last too long.

    Vehicle squad would work and is generally vital to any attack or defense against organized opponents, even on Esamir.

    One thing I would like to point out is that good infantry squadplay is generally quite organic, trying to stick to rigid structures or plans may work once or twice but generally isn't effective, you need to constantly adapt to your circumstances and be somewhat unpredictable. Plans and basic tactics are still good to know and use but they shouldn't be the core of your leading and if you're PLing SL autonomy is generally a good thing and stops you getting burnt out.

    www.squadside.com and https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGZ...XZZboN0-ZRp3_A are both quite good resources on squad/platoon leading but don't take everything others (including me) say without a pinch of salt as everyone has their own style that they use and get to work.

    If you're starting to get tired of the game and its general playstyle it may be worth taking a break and playing/doing something else for a few days/weeks, that way you should be able to stop being burned out before you actively start disliking the game.

    Sorry if this was grammatically poor/rambling/incoherent/aggressive/nonsense, its quite late and I'll probably make about 50 edits tomorrow.
    Planetside 2:JaggedMallard26 (VS), JaggedMallard27 (TR) and Jaggedmallard28 (NC)

  10. #10
    Network Hub SophiaButler's Avatar
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    It'z ok jagged, that seemed helpful

    About the MAX/point holding thing; ugh yeah. It'z just a zerg/grenade meta now. So yeah, I'll likely stick to otherstuff, like flanking and thinning enemy numberz on their way to the point. I do enjoy a good PPA or LA camp on a main route to the point :P

    Az for the LAz beeing caught; the idea iz that they run around outside the base with armour squad support, or away from the edgez of whichever roof they're on, so that they'll survive a bit better. Overall their role iz to essentially apply pressure from a flanking direction though, which they'll succeed at just by playing very aggressively to a waypoint I think.

    And yeah, it seemz like I couldn't have a really tight squad for infantry; it'z too fast-paced for anything beeyond "hold this room, move to next".

    Vehiclez on the other hand could totally manage an organized firing squad, very organized movement/formation, etc. beecauze of how slowly they die , and how eazily they can handle themself with focus fire.


    Also I just watched that attlas Armour Column and Harasser videoz, they didn't teach me anything new :B
    Pretty much all 3 of theze are NSFW sometimez. Also very political. Also I'm a prideful, boasting bee about a lot of stuff.

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  11. #11
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    I don't think LA's on a sundy hunt should be people overly worried about losses or attrition but more of a lightning strike to destroy strategic targets and areas.

    1 squad member goes pull a Valkyrie/Gal, fly over enemy sundy blob at 300m height (if too much flak, the pilot can just bail as well but for redeploy purposes would be nice if it'd survive), shit 6+ LA's with drifters and 2C4 each who destroy every single stationary vehicle within a 50m circle before they even drop to ground level. Redeploy if alive, repeat (or proceed to do other battle types).

    When valk came out (in the most shitty version it's been), we did some target hunting. Snipers? Drop on 'em, kill 'em, redeploy back to valk. 15 seconds for each sniper nest clear. Sundies? drift in air while dropping the C4's, if it destroyed sundy just fly around and redeploy from the air, if not i dropped to ground and killed new spawns until i died (not long in a heated battle) and again, back to valk. Same with tanks except those always die to 2 C4.

  12. #12
    Network Hub SophiaButler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graerth View Post
    I don't think LA's on a sundy hunt should be people overly worried about losses or attrition but more of a lightning strike to destroy strategic targets and areas.

    1 squad member goes pull a Valkyrie/Gal, fly over enemy sundy blob at 300m height (if too much flak, the pilot can just bail as well but for redeploy purposes would be nice if it'd survive), shit 6+ LA's with drifters and 2C4 each who destroy every single stationary vehicle within a 50m circle before they even drop to ground level. Redeploy if alive, repeat (or proceed to do other battle types).

    When valk came out (in the most shitty version it's been), we did some target hunting. Snipers? Drop on 'em, kill 'em, redeploy back to valk. 15 seconds for each sniper nest clear. Sundies? drift in air while dropping the C4's, if it destroyed sundy just fly around and redeploy from the air, if not i dropped to ground and killed new spawns until i died (not long in a heated battle) and again, back to valk. Same with tanks except those always die to 2 C4.
    Yeah, valkz seem great for drop strikez like that. In larger battlez I'd stick to a gal, though, and we've had that happen to us az an armour column recently; enemy galaxiez with flak armour surviving long enough to C4 us.
    Pretty much all 3 of theze are NSFW sometimez. Also very political. Also I'm a prideful, boasting bee about a lot of stuff.

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  13. #13
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    Did you get an answer on the res grenades? They don't work on maxes, this is one way that heavy heavy pushes can outperform max heavy ones, you can have 10 ehavies with 2 medics running after, taking turns to res the entire group with well placed res grenades.

    that's 8 entire wipes you just get back up from in optimal conditions. In effect, more like 3 but thats still a lot of force levelled at a point.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Graerth View Post
    I don't think LA's on a sundy hunt should be people overly worried about losses or attrition but more of a lightning strike to destroy strategic targets and areas.

    1 squad member goes pull a Valkyrie/Gal.
    I was referring more to the original idea of simply having them hunt on foot although the valk/gal drop is a pretty devastating tactic if pulled off properly.
    Planetside 2:JaggedMallard26 (VS), JaggedMallard27 (TR) and Jaggedmallard28 (NC)

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