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  1. #701
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yes, much even, I'd say.

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    I am no fascist! I lead the charge with my soldiers
    I was thinking more down NKVD / WH40k Imperial Guard lines... but yes, in reality I think your Leonidas-like approach to death and glory is inspirational enough

  3. #703
    Obscure Node pomps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Hoc View Post
    Something else I want to bring up that worked great with Charlie was moving out quickly. We had one, or two, sundies ready at almost all times, which meant that we could leave bases in 30-60 seconds (I think our record last night was at around 15 secs). This ensured that we were always focused on the task at hand, and that we were able to get to the next base before the enemy had the opportunity to prepare. And it worked excellently, all in all.
    I was in Charlie squad last night, and this is something i always try to do, pull another sundie. And it works so well.

    One thing ive noticed though, is alot of sundies pulled within RPS, dont have babysitters, which at times are much needed. And also dont have repair/resupplies enabled, which can be a MASSIVE help on the field.

    And finally, have you ever come across a sundie column? I have.

    3 repair equipped, and one resupply equipped, parked in a huddle and one deployed is very hard to destroy in the right positions, anyone fancy trying it out?

  4. #704
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    The problem with the ammo cert is that it goes in place of the mineguard. I'm rolling ammo, but I think everyone else is basically rolling mineguard.

  5. #705
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    Right, following on from my speech at the end of the meeting last night, I think StratGir seems like a great opportunity to get some mentoring going (especially as PLing the StratGir beast is a different, and much more fulfilling, role to directing the herd on any old night).

    So I'd suggest a scheme something like this:
    First hour, experienced StratGir PL (So I'd go with Me, Ride, Eso, Quanta if he isn't too rusty). Takes the lead. They also have a mentee (or maybe two) sat in channel with them, with a whisper set up to just the mentee. The mentor makes an effort to talk through what they are doing and thinking, basically thinking out loud to the mentee all night. After that hour, the roles switch, and the mentee takes over leading the platoon. The mentor remains in channel and whispers for at least the next hour or so, as a source of advice when needed, and while generally keeping quiet (<b>don't</b> make strategic suggestions unless asked!), occasionally making small nudges (eg: "you haven't shouted to all for a while" or "you need to tell Charlie if help is coming or not") where appropriate.

    At the end of the second hour, we can either carry on as it was, or hand over to someone else again.

    So, people up for this?
    Obviously, I'm willing to do the mentoring, although I probably will have to keep it to the two hours.

  6. #706
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    I would very much just like to be squad lead tonight, I'm a bit burned out on platoon leading.. Also, I could mentor squad leaders that should be totally fresh people that want to lead basically that can be in my squad. That would mean I need a somewhat experienced comms person. Totally willing to give up my leading and grunt it as well, if someone new or less experienced wants to take it (just expect people not offering themselves to lead based on last few weeks, prove me wrong!).
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  7. #707
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I'd love to do this, BUT... I'm not sure if I can make it tonight. There's a dance workshop in Gothenburg this weekend with international teachers and plenty of international visitors. Dancing all day and all night, all weekend, so tonight is probably going to be family time.

    But I'm up for this next time for sure!

  8. #708
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    I might be able to step up, but I don't think I can be online much before 20:30 CEST (19:30 Dewi Time). I might be able to swing 2015 CEST.

  9. #709
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    im not rusty, just need an update on comm protocol.

    will try to make it on next week.
    Last edited by QuantaCat; 04-04-2013 at 11:53 AM.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  10. #710
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    20.30 CEST is the starting time anyway so.. Boris and CMaster take a stint each as PL? Or someone else to take CMasters spot perhaps? He has PLed about as much as me.
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  11. #711
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    I had fun, thanks guys. Intersquad comms was short and sweet this evening, thanks for that.

    My tactical map for the Ikanam fight I started just after it began getting hot, after which a lot more lines got added:

    ikanam.jpg

    The reason I post this is I found it was a good tool to keep 6 squads organized in my head.
    Last edited by Boris; 04-04-2013 at 10:19 PM.

  12. #712
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Did you manage to get all squads on the new SL+radio = 2 people paradigm this time?

  13. #713
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    I think so. Not sure about Echo and Foxtrot as they were formed mid combat.

  14. #714
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Alright, that's good then! There was some worry that it might be hard to find 2 people per squad interested in being part of the chain of command. Seems it wasn't that big a problem, then?

  15. #715
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Last night, after the event reached its end, we had a sort of debriefing about it. During that, I expressed my frustration about the night's operation. I have to admit, and I apologise for that, that I was bitter and harsh in my criticisms of the evening. Partly due to a series of technical problems that had me restart the game four times, so ending up in four different squads, and probably not getting into the rhythm. But that also means that my impressions of the night come from more than one squad, so in that sense shed some light into our whole modus operandi. Thus, here is the inflammatory opening: I strongly feel that last night was a low point on how we sometimes fail to recognise and properly allocate our assets.

    Before that, I want to say that this is not a criticism of last night's leadership. Both PLs and all the SLs and Radio Officers tried to do their best. Especially since the majority were new leaders, there were ofcourse some hiccups, but for the most part I think everyone managed alright. But there is something wrong with how we operate, and it frustrates me that new leaders feel obligated to operate like that. To reiterate: this in not about individual leaders, but about the outfit's MO as a whole.

    My main gripe is that, as an outfit, we have the urge to go and cap the whole continent by ourselves. In a game where each continent holds up to 2000 players (and because of the alert, last night's Amerish was probably close to that), we treat the rest as if they are poorly scripted NPCs. So we send individual squads all over the place, where we ghost cap, looking sheepishly at a bar slowly etching towards the victory techno. If we succeed, hoorah, nothing was achieved. Whether we hold that territory depends on whether we manage to defeat the main enemy forces, denying them the ability to recap. Often though, the enemy responds to at least one of those ghost caps, so the serene contemplation of the progress bar is violently interrupted by a volley from a squadron of ESFs and the sudden appearance of half a platoon or more of enemy forces, with the ghost-capping squad having no viable reaction, and no hope for reinforcements. It achieves nothing, it depletes our resources, it bores people, and it forces them into an unnecessary defeat.

    Especially last night, at one time we had squads from North Grove down to the Bastion and Rockslide. I heard there were some good fights, where Alpha and Bravo were reinforced by MDK. I don't know, I wasn't there, and why were they reinforced by some other outfit and not our other squads, especially on the night where we had half a dozen of them. And even more frustrating, in a night where a lot of new leaders stepped up, supposedly to learn. "Here's 12 giraffes, go graze-y".

    Even worse, we are one of the largest Vanu outfits, and especially last night probably the largest or the second largest Vanu force on Amerish. Yet we managed to turn our numerical advantage into a loose collection of late night ghost cappers. The TR were advancing, and the NC were sneaking up from the south. We could be the spearhead against the TR, the wall against the NC, the crucial force, that arrives at the field and deals the decisive blow. On Esamir, where we all defended Eisa, we held a numerically superior force. Half of the NC alliance was there, and they couldn't get it, because we were a concentrated force. Still we were taunted in chat. "You hit somebody with your fist and not with your fingers spread" (Heinz Guderian). We should be the ones at the centre of an advance. We should be the ones the other outfits call in to deal the decisive blow. We should be the ones stopping the enemy advance, so that other outfits can counter-attack. If the other outfits are defending, we should be the ones appearing at the flanks of the enemy.

    Sure, some areas need to be capped. But we should coordinate with our allies. Ask some other smaller outfits to do that. Or if we have to, make sure that it doesn't greatly depletes our force of assets. And always have a back up plan. I really don't understand the point in sending a squad over to what is essentially a gamble. "If it's empty or lightly defended, we cap it, if not, oh well". If we don't care that much for that particular region, why send the squad in the first place? And if we do, if that is important, then where are the reinforcements if the enemy manages to realise the importance of the region and responds in time?

    And finally, since once a week we have the opportunity to roll with 5 or 6 squads, how about just for a change, we try to do some combined arms operation? Just for the coolness factor, although it will also be effective. Just picture it, 3 squads of infantry holding the line and then advancing, with 6-10 magriders and lightings, and scythes and liberators overhead, all in the same battle. Or a massive gal drop with a full air squadron as escort. This game offers the opportunity for such moments, and yet we frequently go for 12v12 "capture the flag" matches. We should always be looking for the big fights. And that can happen with us pushing hard, and with other outfits on our flanks, so that the enemy cannot slip by. We pin him down, we confront him, and we destroy him.

    We often fight concentrated, and then often emerge victorious, or at least give them a bloody nose. But that does not happen when we hastily all redeploy back at a region already under attack and spawn camped, because each squad was wiped out when they had the misfortune of trying to ghost cap in the way of the enemy advance.

    Sending squads to capture half empty bases works only after we have managed to push back the enemy, or when the squads are within short distance of each other, and able to quickly go and reinforce. It works when we have the initiative, or when we try to claim it, by probing for the main enemy forces. And we should not trickle in. As individual squad members should coordinate and stick together, so must squads. Squad members cover each others' back, and squads should cover each others' flank.

    Sorry for the negativity (and the incoherence), but I strongly feel thus: the Hydraffe must die. The sooner, the better.

    tl;dr: Great individual leading, but something's wrong with our leadership philosophy. "March divided, fight united"
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 05-04-2013 at 09:04 AM.

  16. #716
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    I agree, but I did not have that experience last night. Alpha was victorious.

    Regarding combined arms, next time we do stratgir or just squad play, let's have the SLs present themselves in what they prefer to do - infantry, armor, air. I personally will always be playing 90% infantry for example (preferably with galdrops), which means someone that likes to be in a vehicle is better off somewhere else.
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  17. #717
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I think we shouldnt limit ourselves to one tactic. Lets just do as is required to "win", ie. take over the territory we intend to.

    Sometimes that involves defending a spot with all we have. sometimes it involves spreading out.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  18. #718
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    The game has changed a lot at primetime though Quanta. It is now more about pushing back enemy platoons and defeating them at preferable places then just capping territory. Eclectic has a point in this, since we do need to stick together more to be effective.
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  19. #719
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm not buying that it's not about me. I like the Hydraffe, it's a valid tactic and I think it saved Amerish last night.

    I had all of you spread out because each territory was only enemies detected at that time. I'm not about to take an enemies detected location with 70 guys.

    The first plan on Amerish was to secure Mekala. So, take the outlying territories, then go on the base itself. The problem was, the base wasn't defended. I believe it was Delta who were there first, and they came back to me with that there was very little resistance. As soon as the second squad joined in there they said they had the base and it was just waiting for the timer to cap. Should I proceed to send the other 4 squads to that location just so we can stand around united in a glorious combined arms waiting game?

    The entire TR was at Sungrey amp station, and I wanted to force them to leave by taking a whole bunch of their territory. Take the Ikanam bio outlying territories, take ikanam bio. It worked, we forced the TR to abandon Sungrey and we had a good fight at Ikanam.

    Why were we reinforced by MDK at the Bastion? Because the RPS squads I ordered to come failed to get there before them. Believe me, I wanted to consolidate our squads at that location, but sometimes the squads just don't or can't respond in time. We didn't think "oh lets ask MDK, fuck RPS".

    I made a lot of mistakes last night, but I think going Hydraffe wasn't one of them.

  20. #720
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I think we shouldnt limit ourselves to one tactic. Lets just do as is required to "win", ie. take over the territory we intend to.

    Sometimes that involves defending a spot with all we have. sometimes it involves spreading out.
    Especially on prime time, the metagame has evolved on Miller beyond territory. It is mostly about destroying the enemy forces, gaining the momentum, then sweeping regions as the opposition is forced to respawn from one spawn camp to the next. Spreading out works only in two ways:
    -Before encountering the main enemy forces, as a way to probe them and force them to fight in a favourable place and time. This entails keeping our forces close by (or having the logistical means readily available) so that they can concentrate on the decisive point.
    -After the enemy has lost the momentum, and is unable to concentrate his forces timely and orderly. At that point the game usually becomes a sort of "whack-a-mole" (which I mispronounce as wuakamole :P) with sunderers and galaxies.

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