There is a reason there is both Folk and ARPS in the new name. Both owe a lot to one another.
There is a reason there is both Folk and ARPS in the new name. Both owe a lot to one another.
Last edited by harakka; 06-12-2012 at 01:35 PM.
Clips are fully loaded, and then blood floods the lawn
Well Phalax, JRides and even Nullkigan have mentioned many of the points I have problems with, so I won't dwell on those here.
However... The more and more I read about this the more I don't like the direction it's going, also doesn't help that some of you have this thing that is pure nonsense but more on that shortly.
The first thing I want to bring up is, you are "merging the groups" I don't see it like that. I see it essentially as I can not think of a better term right now as, the little group bullying the larger group and succeeding. For one when you merge two entities you DO NOT try to move the larger entity into the smaller one, why? Well because if nothing else you are creating more work for yourself than necessary.
The second point is, RPS and FOLK tell me which one is more likely to be known about? I'm sorry FOLK you may have been around since the Operation Flashpoint days (surprise! So have I) but I had never heard about your existence until I joined RPS for Arma sessions.
What about potential new players hmm? When I hosted the I44 session the other week I was really happy to see two new faces join us, and most importantly enjoy themselves and thus stick around. Where did they hear about our games from? My money is on the fact they read RPS and decided to see what the community around it does.
The third point and this one has bothered me for quite some time...
WTF is this Socialist Agrarian Utopia bullsh*t? Seriously if it's a joke fine but don't use it all the sodding time. The way it is being used for example would be like the following...
Say I like Star Wars for a minute, and I mean really like it. so I start sounding off about the "Glorious Empire!", ok yeah that's fine for a laugh I guess, except I now do it everytime I post/talk. Yeah it's not going to be long before it only pisses people off or worse makes them think you have some form of problem upstairs. You don't use the same knock knock joke over and over, otherwise people stop answering the door.
You don't use the same knock knock joke over an... Oh wait we've already done that.
But my main gripe with that at the moment is, this "merger" it's a BIG thing by the looks of it so DON'T use the unfunny BS when making an "important" annoucement about it. Write it in plain english as it stands I had to read that twice before I fully understood who did what, for example...
Wait... What?Bodge - As Minister of Supervision and State security I will be fielding any enquiries into party policy and managing content published by the party. I will also maintain the security and longevity of the General Secretary's incarceration.
This should have been...
See much easier to read and I know exactly what Bodge's role is in less than 2 seconds.Bodge - Manages the security of Servers and VOIP programs, responsable for mission uploading to the servers. Also around to help with any issues members of the community may be having.
As for those that are saying, "nothing is really changing!" then why make a big thing out of it to start with?
Somebody said they haven't seen any strong objections to all this...
Well here you go, you can consider my voice a strong objection. For what it's actually worth.
I really enjoy playing with both groups, and couldn't pick one over the other because they both offer a really great experience. I'd be the first to admit I'm not the greatest ARMA player, but neither group has ever made me feel lesser or unwelcome. The majority of complaints people seem to have is not liking the semantics or humour of one thing or the other, which just seems petty to me. A lot of the agrarian utopia stuff is chaff, and the jokes can be a bit naff at times, but it doesn't make me want to storm off in outrage, and even if it did I don't think 'I don't like your sense of humour' would vouch as a serious complaint.
The only place ARPS is being promoted on it's own is the occasionally "come play games with us" post on the RPS frontpage. Everywhere else ARPS and Folk tend to be mentioned as sister groups, for example Dsylexci's recommendation of other groups or the various times people have promoted the groups on reddit. (The I44 session has been mentioned a few times on reddit as well btw)The second point is, RPS and FOLK tell me which one is more likely to be known about? I'm sorry FOLK you may have been around since the Operation Flashpoint days (surprise! So have I) but I had never heard about your existence until I joined RPS for Arma sessions.
I'm sorry, but you're just guessing here and throwing weight around that you've got no proof to back with.
I get that you don't appreciate the humor. I'm surprised that no one ever raised this issue. There have been two boards, chats and easy ways to directly contact the hosts. Why did no one ever come along with a simply "hey I/we don't think the socialist joking isn't as funny as you might think, care to tone it done a bit"? If we had known that people strongly object to this kind of humor then the announcement would probably have been worded differently.
No, we don't think the Social Agrarian Utopia thing makes any fucking sense whatsoever, and it's not funny trying to politicise a group like that?I like mumble, I think that the running joke of the glorious communist republic is stale as hell and forces people into playing with AKs and shit all the time,So all this boils down to not getting the joke? Surely I can't be the only one that actually finds the socialist theme funny? It's satire, no one is actually forcing your to be a socialist, it's the opposite. It's making fun of "The Party" as it is basically dysfunctional and incompetent while pretending to have power (My god I hope Fer doesn't read this). It gives us something to shout about while charging towards T72s with Markovs. Maybe it's not that funny, but I can't understand how anyone could be offended by this, unless they really are from the politburo.a player culture based around this socialist agrarian revolutionary thing, a distinct perspective that seems to say, to me, 'you're not welcome unless you're willing to invest time in us.'
Anyway, it's just a game. Play, don't play, host, don't host. I enjoy running around with a Lee Enfield in Zargabad Safari just as much as team work in Tiger/Ferrad's workshops. Who cares if it's ran by Folk or RPS, I want more cool missions, more variety of mission, and more cool toys in missions. I would also support some kind of official after party after the end of serious stuff. I hope someone can make more "fun" mission since cholo and crazyrace are a bit old now.
Like thekev506, I too found FOLK through a recommendation made by Shacktac - a simple email to Fer and I was welcomed to the following Sunday session. I've only played with them for 3 months now and played my first TT session 2 weeks ago. The only difference I found in the sessions were about a group of 5 people who don't play on Sundays.
As far as I can tell, this MERGE can only benefit both groups in the long run -the fact that ARPS admins/hosts have been heavily involved in said merge just proves it's not a hostile take over by FOLK and has been carried out with both 'parties' involvement.
Is it due to the fact that the name FOLK appears first in the new name? lol
As for the 'party' jokes etc. It's clearly just a joke, something that you don't have to be involved in and easily ignored - it's not my cup of tea, so I just let it go over my head. In the end, I'm only here to play ArmA2 in a fun but organised manner and both groups offer this on two specified days starting at half 7 - if people find it such a struggle to complete a few more mouse clicks to navigate to a different forum/site - just turn up on said days at said times and PLAY.
I'm Respecting your culture!
Well I'll try to clear up on some of what I said as it seems some of it wasn't wrote in the best way, hold on.
The Socialist Agrarian Utopia Stuff: Perhaps I shouldn't have said "Bullsh*t", my apologies. What I was trying to get at, particularly with the Star Wars reference was not "Oh don't use it, it's dumb.", you are welcome to it. More a case of don't use it at every opportunity you can, and not when you are trying to convey something that is important. So it's not that I "don't get the joke" it's more that the joke is over used.
The direction: It all boils down to trying to move a larger group into a smaller one instead of vice versa, ultimately more work for the organisers that way. Also when I said about RPS I wasn't actually meaning RPS as in the front page, I ment as in people go to the front page read it and decide to look at the forums. See an Arma/anyother group and think "well why not, it's a large community".
The other thing I was trying to get at was more basic as in, someone searches Google for RPS there is a good chance they could find the ARPS group if they are looking for a fun Arma group, as it's on RPS's own forums. Where as moving most of the stuff to the FOLK forums it's a lot harder to find out about FOLK. Perhaps I should have said ARPS not RPS in my previous post.
Ultimately one of my main fears is this FOLKARPS could become a lot more closed off to new people in the future. As this to me (but it could be the way it's been brought across) looks like a locking down of the group(s).
As for the name of the group? No I don't give two hoots what it's called, and I'm a little disappointed that you would think that in all honesty.
I do hope my points are easier to understand this time, and apologies of any offense caused aswell. That was not my intention.
Regarding the move and some of Hawk's points;
A lot of the things about the move, to me, are good. It comes across as utterly pointless to run two servers and have two separately named groups doing exactly the same things. The renaming and consolidation of resources is a mostly good thing.
When it comes to Mumble, it pains me to say TS3 is the best option. In my opinion TS3 is worse in every conceivable way (especially that horrific overlay) except maybe the CC function. Even with that, the mumble option requires extra set up but has the potential to be used for multiple command channels with the flexible access token system.
But as long as the mumble continues to drop out with alarming regularity TS3 is the way to go.
(It does make sense to me to use Mumble's comment system to post a link to the arma forum and a short description in the ARMA 2 CO comment. There has been a HUGE influx of new people into mumble i.e. ps2 who don't necessarily read the forums and that link could prove helpful and bring in new faces)
Onto the negatives and Hawk's points re: direction - I don't see any purpose at all in consolidating the forums, especially moving to the Folk ones. Why not simply continue posting AARs for the relevant night to the relevant forums regardless of name change?
Recently the cross-post notifications for Folk AARs onto ARPS has stopped for reasons unknown for me, and those provide logical awareness raisers of the Folk forums.
I see Fer is trying to redesign the Folk website but a search for 'Folk Arma' still brings up the RPS forums as the second result behind BI.
Maybe long term ferstaberinde would make a good home for Folk Arps, but the RPS forums are considerably easier to find and prominent making a big and unnecessary move right now nonsensical unless the community wants to become more closed off.
Last point, regarding the Socialist blah blah blah, I get the joke on a small scale. Eastern bloc Socialism is basically the running joke of politics and I personally find it amusing when it comes up in AARs and even some of the tutorial threads. But using it in 'the end of the beginning' thread really seems like a step too far when the purpose should of been to inform people of a relatively major structural change without any dogma or bull****.
All just my opinion. Make of it what you will.
Somebody just told you, that argument of visibilty is fallacious. I myself found FOLK long before ARPS. Folk was a relatively known community inside the arma 2 community.
Still, seeing that the Arma 2 subforum is still there, I don't really see what negative effect it could have.
Carson, I must have a shitload of stupid and short adversarial low-count missions on my computer, which I designed initially for my old group (meaning with a lot of mods in mind), but I could probably convert some of them if people wish it.
Oh, and this has nothing to do here, but that's good news: the Headless client stuff has been fixed, so we should be able to use that when 1.63 comes out. We're gonna die a lot. And add some cover seeking - suppression effect to the AI.
Last edited by Black Mamba; 06-12-2012 at 06:19 PM.
And Black Mamba, that'd be awesome!
Last edited by Ferrard Carson; 06-12-2012 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Added response to Black Mamba
All right, politics! Relax, I've got this!
I started playing this fall, and had my first sessions with Folk. I discovered the Arma-community here on RPS, so i hope we maintain a strong presence here even with the new webpage and the combined forum for Folk and ARPS.
Never did i get the impression that my complete noobishness was a hindrance or much of a nuisance when i started playing. Everybody seems friendly and informing when new arrivals show up, regardless of how much they know at the start.
It was somewhat difficult to piece together how it all worked without practical experience, since the theoretical outlines of group comms and the like focus so little on what it is to be used for, but wholly on the mechanics. (though that is a topic for elsewhere. Digressomatics aside.)
When i read about TT and Folk on the forums here and over at ferstaberinde Folk seemed the easier to get into. That might be because i appreciated the humour involved in their explanations, and their capacity for self-denigration. Socialist mockery might not work for everybody, though, so to make it more obvious that it in no way is necessary to partake in it might not hurt. (It can be daunting to try to write AAR's over at the Folk-forums with all the well written commentary over there!) The Socialist utopia gone horribly wr...*click*... erm... right, might not be attractive to all folks, so how introduction posts about organization and comms are to be written in the future is something that should be thought about.
When i started playing TT's as well it seemed pretty similar to Folk besides the Mumble-thing and with less socialist banter, and to be honest, to have two nights of socialst banter might be a bit overkill.
As for the seriousness of the sessions. Well, i don't know how it was in the olden days of pre-dayz headcounts, but the more people that are running around on the server the more easily can an unstructured approach get really soggy and bad. Personally, i'm more in favour of the structured approach, since learning proper communication and tactical approaches is what keeps me interested in the game, shooting skills and the like are a means for me, not an end. (Mainly because it's easier for me to notice what a crap shooter i am than what a crappy communcator i am, but hey......! =)) If your playstyle is different, thats okay, and sessions where the focus is to basically just drop into a hotzone and clear it out with some loosely coordinated fireteams (which -never- is the case in TT and Folk, assuredly! ;)) can be fun, though i doubt that is as fun with eight fireteams as it is with two.
The one thing that can be done to make it more welcoming to newcomers is to make sure they slot with informative FTL's. Though then we might devolve into a lot of bickering about who does a good and bad job, which i don't want. But an FTL that knows how to communicate with people who are completely new to a fireteam is what i see as the best that can be done in order to ensure more pleasurable experiences for all. Cause dropping into a fireteam with no understanding of proper tehmanologheee can be quite confusing!
But hey, thanks to all who expend so much time and resources to make these things happen, lets hope the merger creates value(tm) for our glorious organization(c)
This "merger" has been going on for a long time, ever since RPS people started visiting the folk sessions and vice versa, the two groups basically have become more and more aligned.
Yes, there have been major changes in TTs playstyle, actually. Mainly due to the influx of new people and Folk's way of doing things.. TT used to be "We do missions without ******* around". Missions like "night Patrol", "Skirmish Devils" and that mission where it's four people with NVs against 16 people with flashlights. And revive. Tactical Teusday certainly has been a lot more light hearted then it is today.
Personally, I do miss those older days of less people and more light hearted drop-in drop-out action. However, action has already been taken to bring those back, and this has not anything to do with this official merger.
The only thing this official merger does is make the Folk way of communaciting the official way of communcating for these sessions.
I disagree with some of this. The main thing is mumble.
Mumble is awesome.
TS3 is not.
I'd really like to see Mumble as the way of doing things. I'd like to hear the team's motivations for using TS3 instead. I am not a big fan of it.
That is all.
EDIT: I did notice someone complaing about squad leaders doing micromanagement - I think this a problem of those squad leaders themselves, not the general way of doing things.
EDIT2: I'd also like to see some differences in playstyle in the two sessions again - TT used to be about giving us slightly OP weapons as BluFor and setting us up against large odds, whilst my first folk session was being handed a pistol and being told to ambush a truck full of army soldiers in order to grab their weapons. I'd love to see something like that back.
Last edited by Grizzly; 06-12-2012 at 09:53 PM.
If things go smoothly we will have
1 session server
1 voip server
RPS arma forum for letting people know about stuff
Folk Arps forum and website for containing more information in an environment more people can control (RPS subforum has Null, Fer and myself as mods only)
RPS steam chat where people hang out
Skype chat is around for people that want to use it - it allows a persistent chat.
ARPS steam chat was never really used. You have the old places that still exist, the two sessions that haven't changed much since the player count explosion. I had a chat with egg and he is looking at running less structured sessions.
I don't really see how anywhere is taking over anywhere else. The same people run some sessions the same people play sessions.
If you have a problem with TS3/Mumble then each to their own tastes and this argument makes more sense, I am not sure where such passionate opposition to TS comes from. I personally feel that the CC option in TS3 is so much slicker that it is a massive help when in session. I don't use an overlay on either and other than that TS3 works just as well as mumble and doesn't bug out anywhere near as frequently.
The socialist thing is not something I am fussed about either way, it is very tongue in cheek.
If you don't like something about how the sessions are run then by all means let us know. But don't try and make the simplification of servers and such sound massively sinister or epically proportioned. It is some important info that should help organising sessions easier and joining sessions easier.
This is really irritating me when people are speculating what is going to happen. There is no monumental change to how you play arma (the biggest is arguably the voip) but if you have queries or concerns talk to me.
EDIT: Oh and i am going to rename the thread for clarity.
Last edited by Bodge; 06-12-2012 at 10:40 PM.
Disclaimer: I don't give two shits about any of this, I'm gonna play at TT and Sundays either way(Assuming this post doesn't get me banned from said sessions). This is all based out of my love for drama and playing devils advocate. Also I hold no grudges against any of the hosts/admins/people I'm about to annoy.
Just a few quick issues I will raise while trying not to go into too much detail. Keep in mind this is all being direct and simple. I care not for any of that "well technically..." bullshit.
1) Everyone keeps saying "it's not a takeover, it's a merger" but I'd like to ask, other than the date of the Tuesday play session, what are you really keeping from the RPS side if things? (speaking strictly in regard to things that affect ArmA play sessions. RPS steam chat, for example, isn't related to ArmA sessions other than that a lot of us hang out there.) TT is being moved to Folks default server, VoIP is being moved to Folks TS3 server, AAR and other ArmA discussion is being moved to Folks forums. So to say it's an equal sided merger seems facetious to me (i promised myself I would use that word in this post. Yes I know it's used incorrectly, I don't care)
2) Another thing said is "If you have issues, bring them up to us and we will handle them" but this thread is basically just people bring up issues, and hosts saying offhand "that's not an issue, you're wrong."
3) The sexualist agricultural ethiopia joke is amusing at times, but as has been said, shouldn't be used in official business stuff.
4) My only issues with how serious/nofunallowed folk is, is yelling at everyone to shut up while the CO plans. If banter is killing his ability to think, maybe turn down the volume for a couple minutes instead of yelling at everyone else, though I've never heard (or maybe I have. I'm not good with voices) a CO ask for silence, just the hosts.
5) I'm trying to make a fun time mission in between the getting frustrated at the real mission I'm making but I have no idea what I'm doing. Expect finished products about a week after ArmA 3 comes out and makes it all irrelevant.
well shit. So much for a quick and concise post.
When I do get a chance to play, I've always preferred the FOLK sessions. AKs are rad. From my limited time I've observed that Tactical Tuesdays are just FOLK with more than AKs and trucks. I've played back when it was just 15-20 dudes and more recently with the large player base. In my mind FOLK and RPS have always been interchangeable. For both I simply configured things the way I was asked, hopped in and played. Never got any flak for it either. I remember my first session I was a CO because nobody else wanted to be, and it was totally fine. Aside from mission selection I couldn't tell you the difference (hell the player-base is even almost exactly the same), so my two cents is I don't get why everyone's panties are in a wad.
I for one appreciate that we're finally picking one voice client instead of having to have two installed to enjoy both groups when it's essentially the same people playing. Mumble and TS3 are both good, but having to use both is a pain. For what it's worth I think TS3 is much easier to configure/keep configured, though I'll mourn the loss of overlays.
As an American I always thought the Socialist Party stuff was silly British humor and I quite enjoy it (and coincidentally it provides context for a lot of missions which does a lot for my level of enjoyment).
But everyone feel free to disregard anything I say because I really dont get to play that often.
EDIT: Also I guess now is the time to mention that I really enjoyed playing with you guys more when it was just 20 some people instead of the amounts now. That's just personal preference though.
DBLEDIT: I also agree with the sentiment that newer players should be encouraged to slot with more experienced FTLs. I take great pride in my ability to inform everyone that I'm not the greatest FTL/SL and "don't slot with me if you want to live." That should be everyone's personal responsibility, but I also always thought that was common sense.
TRPLEDIT: For the sake of data collection I guess I should also mention I had no idea RPS had an ARMA group until I heard about TT while playing a FOLK session.
Last edited by lazer; 07-12-2012 at 05:15 AM.
To provide clarity
General queries and content management-> Bodge or Fer.
Mission problems -> Contact Wolf, Strang or SvDvorak.
Mod stuff -> Wash.
Server issues -> Harakka, Caper (esp if A2Free) or Null (if financial).
Workshop queries -> Tiger or Carson.
Flight sim stuffs -> Headspace.
So if you don't know who to contact about something just ask any host, but you may be redirected to the relevant person (For missions please press [wolfenswan]).
which laid it out rather concisely.