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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    When I saw it announced all I could think of was it being Total War: Warhammer Fantasy Edition. Almost like reskinning every unit in the game.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    As others said,i was dreaming about this for such a long time and now,its actually happening,wow!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    This is kind of wrong. Thats how it used to work, up until 3rd (?) edition 40k.
    The first army books were 1987 for Warhammer. 40K is a little different; technically the first codexes were for 2nd edition in 93, however this was the first release of 40K and technically the only way to get an army list as such for Rogue Trader was via White Dwarf (the original rules as written had no armies as such, it was more skirmish oriented with you randomly rolling stats and equipment, about the only thing you could choose was the race). The rulebook has never included an army list though - even 1st edition Warhammer you had to go to another book for the army lists (although in those days they shipped it with the main rulebook and magic rules in one box :P).

    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    Shogun 2 had the whole rock, paper, scissors thing going on. Archers > melee troops (no shields in Sengoku period!) > spear troops > cavalry > archers. They should be able to adapt Warhammer to this quite nicely.
    Not likely. Unless GW relent on the past few decades of history and allow Sega to come up with new units, you have the immediate problem of not everyone being able to field archers or cavalry (and in some cases both; Skaven spring to mind). Trying to simplify to a rock/paper/scissors style balance wouldn't really work well with Warhammer; of course given there's thirty years of tabletop balancing to draw from it shouldn't be a problem (besides which the simplification is one of the reasons I hated Shogun 2).

    To be honest the TW engine as is isn't that far from what they need it to do. Troop stats aren't too hard to get right (you've already got a numeric system from the tabletop after all) and they already have the morale penalties for flanking and rear charges (the one area Mark of Chaos went horribly wrong). Given units and generals have had triggered abilities since Napoleon it wouldn't be too hard to develop that into a magic system.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    The first army books were 1987 for Warhammer. 40K is a little different; technically the first codexes were for 2nd edition in 93, however this was the first release of 40K and technically the only way to get an army list as such for Rogue Trader was via White Dwarf (the original rules as written had no armies as such, it was more skirmish oriented with you randomly rolling stats and equipment, about the only thing you could choose was the race). The rulebook has never included an army list though - even 1st edition Warhammer you had to go to another book for the army lists (although in those days they shipped it with the main rulebook and magic rules in one box :P).
    Thats strange, I have the 3rd edition rulebook and that definitely has individual army rosters in it, containing a list of each unit for each army, along with points costs and weapon options etc. Basically everything thats in the current codexes. You could definitely field an army using only the main rulebook, unlike 4th (and I assume 5th) edition. Maybe 3rd edition was a one off like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    Not likely. Unless GW relent on the past few decades of history and allow Sega to come up with new units, you have the immediate problem of not everyone being able to field archers or cavalry (and in some cases both; Skaven spring to mind). Trying to simplify to a rock/paper/scissors style balance wouldn't really work well with Warhammer; of course given there's thirty years of tabletop balancing to draw from it shouldn't be a problem (besides which the simplification is one of the reasons I hated Shogun 2).
    Thats a good point. It's definitely workable though. Just because something isn't on top of a horse doesn't mean it can't behave like cavalry. Gutter Runners or even Rat Ogres could act like cavalry units, highly mobile with a strong charge but weak in prolonged combat. Likewise the Skaven could have warpfire units and heavy artillery to act as their ranged units.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    As skaven wouldn't have archers, they could have a unit type to replace them that would have an overwhelming amount of members in that unit, so that even losing the first few ranks to archers, they can still make it into combat to tackle them. That would even work well with the very idea of skaven hordes.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    Thats strange, I have the 3rd edition rulebook and that definitely has individual army rosters in it, containing a list of each unit for each army, along with points costs and weapon options etc. Basically everything thats in the current codexes. You could definitely field an army using only the main rulebook, unlike 4th (and I assume 5th) edition. Maybe 3rd edition was a one off like that?
    Yup, third edition was a complete rewrite of the rules, so they needed a 'get you by' list to cover the existing armies until the codex updates were rolled out. It didn't have everything that was in the codexes - most particularly a lot of the special rules were substituted for ones in the book, so you had things like Eldar lances counting as multi-melta's and the like.
    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    Thats a good point. It's definitely workable though. Just because something isn't on top of a horse doesn't mean it can't behave like cavalry. Gutter Runners or even Rat Ogres could act like cavalry units, highly mobile with a strong charge but weak in prolonged combat.
    That's where you hit a problem though. The only reason Rat Ogres don't generally do prolonged combat is because they tend to tear apart whatever they're facing in short order. Gutter Runners on the other hand get slaughtered if anyone looks at them funny, it'd be a bit weird to see them effective when charging. Their main role is purely to hunt down war machine crew and foolishly lonesome characters.
    On the tabletop they counter the lack of cavalry by simply being faster on foot than anyone else, there's no reason you couldn't implement that on the computer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    As skaven wouldn't have archers, they could have a unit type to replace them that would have an overwhelming amount of members in that unit
    That would describe pretty much every Skaven unit, yes :P

    And as I said earlier, GW don't usually allow you to create anything which isn't already in an army book somewhere, they consider it a risk to their IP. I doubt very much they've changed their minds on that one.

  7. #27
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    Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

    But in seriousness, having seen what the TW engine is now capable of doing, it's more than capable of adapting to Warhammer. We've got hero units now, we've got morale systems, the units are all heavily stat-based, we have more than enough scale, we have unit and call-in abilities. The only thing of note we're missing is large creatures, which we'll probably see re-enter the fray in Rome 2 as war elephants.
    Last edited by DarkFenix; 07-12-2012 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Stupid

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    I am definitely looking forward to tasting the fruits of this union.
    The Medallion of the Imperial Psychopath, a Napoleon: Total War AAR
    For the Emperor!, a Total War: Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai AAR

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkFenix View Post
    Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

    But in seriousness, having seen what the TW engine is now capable of doing, it's more than capable of adapting to 40k. We've got hero units now, we've got morale systems, the units are all heavily stat-based, we have more than enough scale, we have unit and call-in abilities. The only thing of note we're missing is large creatures, which we'll probably see re-enter the fray in Rome 2 as war elephants.
    They won't be making 40K games. They got the license to Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    This makes me wish I liked Total War games more. Regardless, though, it should generate some truly outstanding spectacle.

  11. #31
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    Calling it now, after a year and a half of anticipation CA will release a Warhammer action game in the vein of Viking ^^

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Malawi Frontier Guard's Avatar
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    I used to like the scenario of Warhammer Fantasy, but when I started studying the source material (i.e. the history of the Holy Roman Empire) I realized it was just a boring, juvenile knockoff in comparison, without the exuberance that makes 40k special.

    Dark Omen was a good game though and CA seem to slowly have come out of their Medieval 2/Empire slump, so I'm still looking forward to whatever they will come up with.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
    Calling it now, after a year and a half of anticipation CA will release a Warhammer action game in the vein of Viking ^^
    Exclusive to the Wii U.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Malawi Frontier Guard View Post
    I used to like the scenario of Warhammer Fantasy, but when I started studying the source material (i.e. the history of the Holy Roman Empire) I realized it was just a boring, juvenile knockoff in comparison, without the exuberance that makes 40k special.
    A knockoff of what? Because except for some administrative similarities all Holy Roman Empire has in common with WFB Empire is the early German renaissance aesthetic.

    It's also the perfect neutral backdrop for the real hero of the setting - Chaos in all of it's varied glory.

    More to the subject, I kinda hope Sega will do more with the licence than just a vijagam version of WFB. Warhammer Quest would make a great co-op dungeon crawler and Mordheim a great Jagged Alliance type game. Witcher/Alpha Protocol style RPG in the setting anyone?
    Last edited by His Master's Voice; 07-12-2012 at 01:32 AM.

  15. #35
    Network Hub Space Indaver's Avatar
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    This was what I was imagining when I first played through Shogun 1. I CANNOT HANDLE THE EXCITEMENT. It's coming out in the next couple of days, right? Right?
    Give me custom colours and hero characters, and I will play the shit out of this.

    Am I right in thinking hero characters kind of levelled up between games, and you had to show their character sheets to the opponent beforehand? Or was that only a 40k thing, where you had to decide how many points a unit was worth to balance the field out?

  16. #36
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    This is brilliant news. There hasn't been a truly great successor to Dark Omen before, and the Warhammer world was crying out for Total War style gameplay, especially considering that Dark Omen virtually invented the battle system of the Total War games. Playing it now you can see where the Creative Assembly got their inspiration for the battles from and will be instantly familiar to fans of the Total War series.

    The closest we've ever gotten to a true Warhammer game is the Call of Warhammer mod for Medieval 2. Get the Rage of Dark Gods edition for the most polished and translated experience though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malawi Frontier Guard View Post
    I used to like the scenario of Warhammer Fantasy, but when I started studying the source material (i.e. the history of the Holy Roman Empire) I realized it was just a boring, juvenile knockoff in comparison, without the exuberance that makes 40k special.
    You're wrong on so many levels. If you knew anything about the Warhammer world you'd know that even the Empire factions are based on a dizzying array of real world sources other than the Holy Roman Empire. Stirland is Ireland, Middenland is Scotland, Reikland a blend of the HRE and England and so on, never mind how fascinating all of the other races and factions are.
    Last edited by TheXand; 07-12-2012 at 04:07 AM.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Malawi Frontier Guard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXand View Post
    You're wrong on so many levels. If you knew anything about the Warhammer world you'd know that even the Empire factions are based on a dizzying array of real world sources other than the Holy Roman Empire. Stirland is Ireland, Middenland is Scotland, Reikland a blend of the HRE and England and so on, never mind how fascinating all of the other races and factions are.
    Yes, I'm aware of that.

    What I'm trying to say is that the actual histories (ha) of the countries that inspired Warhammer are so much more interesting to me that I have no enthusiasm at all anymore for the setting, even with the Chaos angle.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malawi Frontier Guard View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of that.

    What I'm trying to say is that the actual histories (ha) of the countries that inspired Warhammer are so much more interesting to me that I have no enthusiasm at all anymore for the setting, even with the Chaos angle.
    Does that mean that you avoid all popular fantasy settings like Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones? It's hard to think of any good fantasy setting that doesn't base itself heavily on real world countries.

    Have to say that I feel very differently from you. The Holy Roman Empire for example has a very boring history to it, to my mind, compared to the Anglo-Saxons and the Celts. Very convoluted and unexciting. Not to mention that the inclusion of orcs, elves and dwarves makes any setting more interesting since it means not only extra cultural groups but added racial tensions and the very best of fantasies expertly weave them into the history of their world and the relation to more real world based cultures and factions.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    Thats a good point. It's definitely workable though. Just because something isn't on top of a horse doesn't mean it can't behave like cavalry. Gutter Runners or even Rat Ogres could act like cavalry units, highly mobile with a strong charge but weak in prolonged combat. Likewise the Skaven could have warpfire units and heavy artillery to act as their ranged units.
    Or they could simply not try and force a square peg in a round hole and screw the rock paper scissors balance.

    Who needs balance in a single player game anyway?

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malawi Frontier Guard View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of that.

    What I'm trying to say is that the actual histories (ha) of the countries that inspired Warhammer are so much more interesting to me that I have no enthusiasm at all anymore for the setting, even with the Chaos angle.
    I can understand that. My favorite form of fiction is historical fiction - mainly as a means of humanizing the characters of the era - and believe that there's a wealth of great stuff out there that's hardly tapped in the general public's eye.

    That said, considering how reticent developers are when it comes to hiring bona fide writers, the chances of them commissioning historians is less likely than Michelle Bachmann having a mixed marriage.
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