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  1. #21
    Network Hub Gwilym's Avatar
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    There's never a transition to third person in FC3. The only time you see your character from without is in the handbook, which is just as well because he looks pretty silly.

    Though there is an awkward transition to the narrow console FOV whenever you're in a talky bit.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    I can play it because I had the patience to sit through a 10 minute intro at the start of a huge open world game.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbulb View Post
    It seems like no one learned the main lesson from Half-Life.

    You play the game, you don't watch the game. There was, I think, one 'true' (by this I mean third person) cutscene in HL? Everything else might have happened in front of you as a set piece but you didn't get the jarring transition to third person.

    So, so many games let me run around but have the best bits totally out of my control. Its just annoying.

    Half-life's imitators are even worse. Instead of an unskippable cutscene, you get an unskippable cutscene that you have to direct, or the game will sit there forever doing nothing. Screw that.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister agent View Post
    Making your intro unskippable is totally inexcusable, and has been for at least twenty years. Making it ten minutes long and unskippable is verging into "ironic punishment in hell" territory.

    If the player wants to skip the story, that's their business. Tutorials should always be skippable, too, or has everyone forgotten the interminable nightmare that was pre-patch Black and White?
    The only reason I can imagine they do this is to avoid people skipping them, then complaining online that the mechanics or story make no sense...

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    OP is right, FC3 took over ten minutes to download and install. That's pretty boring, guys- just watching a bar fill up on the screen. Plus I can't even skip it.

  6. #26
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    I quit playing as well. During the first mission where you get the cheap car and drive to the hunting grounds... I did kill the boars and stuff, got back in to the car and was returning only to find the message "warning, you are leaving the mission area".. Apparently the only way to end this mission was to use fast travel.. nice open world game this is..

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Not sure what you mean, but IIRC it's just a tutorial to show you how to fast travel. So yeah, you have to use it there.
    C'mon guys, I know tutorials are pretty frustrating because they teach you simple shit that should just be in the manual (what manual?... I guess tutorials have replaced them, sadly) but FC3 just holds your hand for a little bit and then it really does turn you loose.

    Give it more than 10 minutes and it is a different game.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by simast View Post
    I quit playing as well. During the first mission where you get the cheap car and drive to the hunting grounds... I did kill the boars and stuff, got back in to the car and was returning only to find the message "warning, you are leaving the mission area".. Apparently the only way to end this mission was to use fast travel.. nice open world game this is..
    Isn't the point of that part to instruct the player how to use fast-travel? Don't get me wrong, I hate the 'mission area' prompts as much as the next man/woman/cassowary (What the fuck is a cassowary and why have I not heard of it before FC3?), but to drop the game straight off because it was trying to show you how to play it is a little harsh. I for one welcome our fast-travel overlords.

    Edit: Dagnabit Spark!
    I'm Respecting your culture!

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    OP is right, FC3 took over ten minutes to download and install. That's pretty boring, guys- just watching a bar fill up on the screen. Plus I can't even skip it.

    Oh please, don't be so obtuse.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Wrong word. OP is being obtuse. My post is a humorous analogy. Obviously the humor will be lost on some.

    The whole point is that someone is complaining about a game that they haven't actually had the patience to play yet.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Wrong word. OP is being obtuse. My post is a humorous analogy. Obviously the humor will be lost on some.

    The whole point is that someone is complaining about a game that they haven't actually had the patience to play yet.
    It's exactly the right word, because your analogy is moronic. You need to have the game installed to play it. It's impossible otherwise. You do not need to force your player to sit through an unskippable intro/tutorial to have them play it, though, unless you deliberately made it that way.

    You shouldn't need patience just to start playing a game. Do you sit around having the alphabet explained to you for ten minutes before you read a book? No, and if a writer/publisher forced you to do that, you'd tell them to piss off. There's simple no comparison.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Haha *facepalm*


    I'm not going to defend in game tutorials, but if you're new to gaming I can understand that you don't realize the whole game isn't going to be like this.

    And my analogy is awesome. Call it moronic one more time and I'll drop more humor on you that will piss you off even more, which will make my chuckles all the more satisfying.

    Far Cry 3 is a great game with a reasonably short tutorial. If you don't have the patience for the tutorial you are missing out.
    Last edited by Sparkasaurusmex; 08-12-2012 at 05:50 PM.

  13. #33
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    I've played Farcry for about 10 hours and I'm still not sure about it.

    OP should be a professional game reviewer for either IGN or Kotaku.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Haha *facepalm*


    I'm not going to defend in game tutorials, but if you're new to gaming I can understand that you don't realize the whole game isn't going to be like this.

    And my analogy is awesome. Call it moronic one more time and I'll drop more humor on you that will piss you off even more, which will make my chuckles all the more satisfying.

    Far Cry 3 is a great game with a reasonably short tutorial. If you don't have the patience for the tutorial you are missing out.
    You don't need to be new to games to understand that an unskippable tutorial is a design flaw that's persisted for so many years that it's genuinely embarassing. I really don't care if you think I'm angry, the fact is it was an objectively bad analogy. Downloading and installing a game is necessary. It's not possible to play the game otherwise. Making your tutorial unskippable is not. It is possible to play a game without playing the tutorial, unless the developers chose otherwise.

    You should not need patience just because a developer couldn't be arsed to allow the player to play the game they've bought.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister agent View Post
    Do you sit around having the alphabet explained to you for ten minutes before you read a book? No, and if a writer/publisher forced you to do that, you'd tell them to piss off. There's simple no comparison.
    On the other hand, I've recently been making my way through an 8-book series. Some of the books had years in between release, and the first few chapters of most of them are therefore full of fairly clumsy re-caps of what happened in the previous books. But not in a skippable way as "Previously on..." but worked into the narrative, usually as a character remember things.

    Also amuses me that some of the people that get really angry about unskippable tutorials are the same ones that get angry about the idea that we should just be able to skip levels as we wish, or the idea that we should just be able to skip combat in an RPG.

  16. #36
    Network Hub Gwilym's Avatar
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    Are they, though? What are you basing that on?

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangLove View Post
    (What the fuck is a cassowary and why have I not heard of it before FC3?)
    I'm sure you've already looked it up on wikipedia, but they're basically velociraptors disguised as emus.

  18. #38
    Network Hub Gwilym's Avatar
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    Including that SPEEDING HAS KILLED CASSOWARIES sign in the game would've been great in a lot of ways.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwilym View Post
    Are they, though? What are you basing that on?

    Lots of straw. And as usual, calmly pointing out an obvious design flaw is derided as "getting angry". Internet!

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sinister agent View Post
    You shouldn't need patience just to start playing a game. Do you sit around having the alphabet explained to you for ten minutes before you read a book? No, and if a writer/publisher forced you to do that, you'd tell them to piss off. There's simple no comparison.
    That isn't a valid analogy neither. It would be, if every FPS was played the same way, as every book can be read the same way. But they aren't. So, you can figure out those special mechanics by yourself, or you can go throught the tutorial.

    In this case, the devs have decided to make the tutorial mandatory because, if they didn't, a bunch of morons would have been saying that the game was difficult to get into, after skipping the tutorial. You wouldn't, probably, and a lot of other people neither, but it is a completely logical decision (specially taking into account that it is a short tutorial).

    Let's take a look at another example. A book, as you say. A Clockwork Orange. It has "special words", which we can use as a comparison to the "special mechanics" in FPSs. Personally, I enjoyed reading it without looking at the dictionary at the end of my edition, as I could understand almost everything by its context. Some people, instead, will prefer to look at the dictionary since the beggining. But, believe it or not, there's people who have the dictionary on the same book they're reading, don't use it, and then complain about those words being imposible to understand. Those are morons, yes, but their complains can be avoided by putting the dictionary on their faces and, after that, letting them read the book. And that's what Ubi have done here. As I say, you may not need it, or I may not need it, but the decision is still logical and easy to defend. It's "just in case".

    I'm sure the OP would complain about not having been explained how to throw rocks, or hunt, or craft, or any other stupid thing, if the tutorial wasn't mandatory.

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