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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Hey guys, here's a protip!

    You know those games with unskippable intros but at the end of which the character always ends up the same, ie. there is no customization by this point? As soon as that intro is done, make a save file. Label that motherfucker. And use that as your starting point in the future. Congrats, you've just saved yourself some future forum bitching.

    Now go and spend that time curing cancer or ending world hunger or whatever it was you were going to be doing with those few hours. Which I'm totally sure weren't going to be spent watching reruns, randomly browsing the internet or having a quick wank while the missus is down the shops.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    Hey guys, here's a protip!

    You know those games with unskippable intros but at the end of which the character always ends up the same, ie. there is no customization by this point? As soon as that intro is done, make a save file. Label that motherfucker. And use that as your starting point in the future. Congrats, you've just saved yourself some future forum bitching.

    Now go and spend that time curing cancer or ending world hunger or whatever it was you were going to be doing with those few hours. Which I'm totally sure weren't going to be spent watching reruns, randomly browsing the internet or having a quick wank while the missus is down the shops.
    Yes, of course. Because it's possible to work around a developer's mistakes, they don't matter. And nobody's time is worth anything unless they are doing what you think is important. Brilliant.

  3. #43
    Network Hub Gwilym's Avatar
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    Yeah. sinister agent was right; there's a shitload of straw being strewn around here, which is probably ill-advised for a game where fire propagates so quickly, and is, frankly, quite overpowered, though I'm sure I'll now be pilloried for having the gall to criticiLOOK NOW I'M DOING IT TOO

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by sinister agent View Post
    Yes, of course. Because it's possible to work around a developer's mistakes, they don't matter.
    It's not a mistake, it's a comercial decision, as I tried to explain in my previous post. I'd prefer it to be skippable too, personally, but it's completely logical that it's not. As I have already said, it avoids moronic complains about story/mechanics. Other complains may be made, but some are avoided, at least. They did what was better for them.

  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister agent View Post
    Yes, of course. Because it's possible to work around a developer's mistakes, they don't matter. And nobody's time is worth anything unless they are doing what you think is important. Brilliant.
    I don't think it's a mistake. The number of reviews - written, video or otherwise - I've seen where the reviewer misses something that would have been explained through reading hte manual or playing the tutorial is staggering. Said reviewer usually then goes on to slam the game for not explaining things clearly.

    And I see this on forums all the time. With the death of proper manuals has come this sense of lazy entitlement; where people think they are veteren gamers who can play any game without help, so whenever they skip the tutorial yet don't know what's going on it's actually the games fault for not explaining things correctly. There seems to be no middle ground for so many people. So far better they get forced into a tutorial making sure they understand the basics, than to have them quit after 10 minutes and run off to bitch online.

    And no, I don't think "nobody's time is worth anything unless they are doing what you think is important", that was intentional hyperbole on my part so that I could make a masturbation joke - it's kind of what all British humour comes back to. But tutorials aren't exactly dull these days, unless you're playing some sort of German RPG for the first time. They've gotten pretty good at interweaving the mechanics to the tutorial in a fun way. If someone can play the same fucking dungeon in WoW or the same fucking map on TF2 for hours straight, then they should be able to struggle through that first few hours of AssCreed or FarCry where they're being introduced to the story, characters and mechanics - while getting to use said mechanics - without throwing a moody.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Indaver View Post
    Poor effort at trying to be PC-snobby. Cutscenes are not a crime.
    Unskipable cutscenes is a crime. I blame half life for that.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    You must have atrocious taste in movies.
    Because games always wanted to be movies right?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexClockwork View Post
    That isn't a valid analogy neither. It would be, if every FPS was played the same way, as every book can be read the same way. But they aren't. So, you can figure out those special mechanics by yourself, or you can go throught the tutorial.
    Press "E" to everything. I still remember the Portal 2 tutorial. press W to walk, spacebar to jump,etc... the average gamer of today must have a lot of patience to learn the same thing over and over again. But i have to side with the devs, because gamers in general are dumb as rocks. can't blame them...

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    I guess the OP only gave this thread 10 minutes, too. =P
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  10. #50
    Network Hub Gwilym's Avatar
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    I like to imagine they got hooked by Far Cry 3

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
    Why would you want to skip any of the cutscenes at the start of the game? It's setting up the entire story oO
    Because I shouldn't have to watch a movie in order to understand the plot of a game. I'm not saying the OP was right to quit on the game after 10 minutes but unskippable cutscenes annoy the shit out of me.

  12. #52
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    I haven't played FC3, and likely won't do so until it's reduced to little monies in some Steam sale. So take that for what it's worth.

    But.

    Even assuming that it's a design flaw, from all accounts, FC3 is an engrossing, well-designed game once you get into it. Even grumpyguts John Walker seemed to like it despite loathing some of the design decisions the devs made. I'm OK pointing out design flaws, and I don't particularly like unskippable cutscenes or tutorials either. But perhaps -- just perhaps -- it's worth spending more than 10 minutes to play the game that you've spent good money on, and which sounds quite good.

  13. #53
    Network Hub Dubbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    You know those games with unskippable intros but at the end of which the character always ends up the same, ie. there is no customization by this point? As soon as that intro is done, make a save file. Label that motherfucker. And use that as your starting point in the future. Congrats, you've just saved yourself some future forum bitching.
    FC3 only has one save slot per game. I got around this by tracking down my saves folder (here, against all logic: C:\ProgramData\Orbit\46\) and making a copy elsewhere.

    For everyone else that didn't quit the game and manually back up their Save001.sav - will you be as quick to defend the unskippable nonsense on your second playthrough? How will you feel about sitting through the mandatory mission blurbs again, missions you need to complete to unlock fun and useful skills?
    Open-faced sandwiches are upon you whether you would risk it or not.

  14. #54
    Activated Node Proctor Eldritch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarxe View Post
    I gave up after maybe 10 minutes of not being able to do anything but follow the tracks, can't skip any of cutscenes, nothing. Got to the point where you cross the bridge and fall into the river and AGAIN the game takes control away from you and you can't skip that.

    Whereas a game like Hotline Miama had me hooked within minutes of playing.
    That's a shame, because you're missing out on a great game. I'm glad my tastes aren't as narrow as yours, OP.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    FC3 only has one save slot per game. I got around this by tracking down my saves folder (here, against all logic: C:\ProgramData\Orbit\46\) and making a copy elsewhere.
    Shit like that is unforgivable, just like not having quicksaving.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    For everyone else that didn't quit the game and manually back up their Save001.sav - will you be as quick to defend the unskippable nonsense on your second playthrough? How will you feel about sitting through the mandatory mission blurbs again, missions you need to complete to unlock fun and useful skills?
    As I said, I'd rather not have to play the tutorial. But it's short, and it being mandatory is completely logical, so... No problem.

    @dnf: Press T to throw rocks, you can hide in vegetation, kill animals and take their skin to craft X things, take plants to craft Y things, climb towers to unlock map sections. Simple things, and most people would figure them out by themselves. But there's people who wouldn't, would skip the tutorial, and then complain about it.

    P.S.: FC3's tutorial is way better than Portal 2's one.
    Last edited by AlexClockwork; 09-12-2012 at 01:51 PM.

  17. #57
    Obscure Node Noyemi K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    FC3 only has one save slot per game. I got around this by tracking down my saves folder (here, against all logic: C:\ProgramData\Orbit\46\) and making a copy elsewhere.
    What the hell?

    I like to keep two files just in case I'm about to mess something up, but I really don't want to go through the trouble of having some kind of backup scheme just to keep a fork in the game ready or some file where the intro has been sat through.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzee View Post
    I guess the OP only gave this thread 10 minutes, too. =P
    Drive-by thread creating should be punished by mods.

    Offtop.

    On mp.net there is a South Korean guy( probably a bot though) who creates threads with blatant anti-North Korean and anti-Japan( first is ok by ROE of mp.net, second is not really) news content, often with tabloid level sources. And he never posts anything himself, just threads. When mods got tired of him, they changed his avatar into this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    You are an enemy of gaming.

  19. #59
    Network Hub Space Indaver's Avatar
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    It's an open world game, not a sandbox. Plus, Half Life had very few moments of physical interaction between the player and NPCs, so it could afford to let you fuck around while people dumbly talked at you. That's just a design choice, not objectively bad.

  20. #60
    Obscure Node Noyemi K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Indaver View Post
    It's an open world game, not a sandbox. Plus, Half Life had very few moments of physical interaction between the player and NPCs, so it could afford to let you fuck around while people dumbly talked at you. That's just a design choice, not objectively bad.
    Heheh, that was a fun choice. I like to pistol whip people and shoot while they're talking to me.

    I like to imagine that, instead of just not having voice work or triggers for Freeman messing around with everything in the room, the character is just trying to ignore it and thinking, "My God, would you sit still for six seconds?!"

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