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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Cheers guys. I'll pick up the basic game. I'm hoping its what I'm looking for in that I'll boot it up and then the next time I look at the clock it's two days later.

  2. #22
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drinking with Skeletons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Aren't Retinues only active if you've got the Byzantium DLC? ckiiwiki suggests this, and I seem to recall this myself. Retinues are quite a significant gameplay change, so Legacy of Rome might be worth getting. On the other hand the game is perfectly fine without Retinues, it just takes some getting used to when you've played without them and then you get them!
    Yes, they are unique to LoR. You are also right: they make a big difference. I think one of the most important things about them is that they are relatively cheap and can give you just the little bit of edge you need in smaller wars without throwing the game's balance out of whack.

    Also, to anyone who was put off of LoR because of its limited scope, it does add a pretty impressive amount of Byzantine-specific content, including events and new objectives, which make them more engaging to play than you might expect. I think they could've made it more appealing if the new music and unit packs had been part of the DLC to emphasize that it's really a boon for fans of the Byzantine Empire.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Aren't Retinues only active if you've got the Byzantium DLC? ckiiwiki suggests this, and I seem to recall this myself. Retinues are quite a significant gameplay change, so Legacy of Rome might be worth getting. On the other hand the game is perfectly fine without Retinues, it just takes some getting used to when you've played without them and then you get them!
    It seem's that you are correct:

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...s-and-Retinues

    That kinds of sucks, I thought Paradox's policy was that all general gameplay updates would be free patches. This kind of seems a bit counter to that?

    Also, I tend to play characters from Western Europe, will retinues add much to that kind of gameplay? Or is it more interesting for the Eastern factions?
    Last edited by duff; 10-12-2012 at 05:52 PM.

  4. #24
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drinking with Skeletons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    It seem's that you are correct:

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...s-and-Retinues

    That kinds of sucks, I thought Paradox's policy was that all general gameplay updates would be free patches. This kind of seems a bit counter to that?

    Also, I tend to play characters from Western Europe, will retinues add much to that kind of gameplay? Or is it more interesting for the Eastern factions?
    Retinues are more for larger kingdoms. There's a retinue cap which is somehow calculated based on realm size and one of the military technologies (not sure how it actually works, TBH), so Dukes and even lesser kings aren't going to have access to them, at least not without improving their tech levels. Once/if you have access to them, you pay a relatively modest fee (45-120 gold, depending on what type of troops you want) and the retinue starts forming in your capital. It will cost you income to reinforce the retinue, but once full (one retinue holds 500 total troops) it will be free. You can adjust the reinforcement rate to slow them down and save income if you want, but I don't think it actually lowers the total cost of reinforcement.

    If you are leading a large Empire, you can actually have a pretty decent, completely free army made entirely out of retinues to form the backbone of your forces. They can be merged with standard armies and do everything you want an army to do, so they can really make a difference at times, though I don't feel they are imbalanced in the least.

    However, I agree that they shouldn't have been included in the DLC. It seems to me that Paradox doubted whether anyone would want a DLC that is essentially nothing but improvements to the Byzantines and cut retinues from the patch to push the add-on. I really like how Legacy of Rome fleshes out the Byzantine Empire, but I think they would've been better off to be honest about what it was and lump the Unit Pack and Music Track with it to make it clear that the content was for fans of the Byzantines.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Thanks for that. I guess I'll hold off until I can pick up the DLC in a sale. Byzantines aren't really my thing so I doubt I'll get much from it apart from the retinue system. Oh well, another month or two of updates and polish can't hurt.

  6. #26
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drinking with Skeletons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    Thanks for that. I guess I'll hold off until I can pick up the DLC in a sale. Byzantines aren't really my thing so I doubt I'll get much from it apart from the retinue system. Oh well, another month or two of updates and polish can't hurt.
    Probably a good idea. I picked up the DLC (and unit and music packs) because I'm the kind of guy who wants EVERYTHING for games I like, despite not having much of an opinion one way or the other about the Byzantines. I will say that you should not play as the Byzantines until/unless you get the DLC, as there is enough stuff in it to make them different enough to enjoy (you can castrate and blind people, for instance) despite not really changing the mechanics much. I think they may actually be my favorite culture to play now based on this DLC.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drinking with Skeletons View Post
    There is enough stuff in it to make them different enough to enjoy (you can castrate and blind people, for instance) despite not really changing the mechanics much.
    Okay yeh, maybe I was a bit hasty in ruling them out!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    I agree with Timofee. This sounds fantastic. I just wish that Paradox could manage to make old saves compatible with new versions of the game.
    I got lucky, and my Russian/Byzantine Empire game survived the upgrade pretty well. Just had to switch a holding type so that I could mend the Great Schism. Other than that, it went smoothly. Hopefully it'll survive this one too because who knows if I'll finish that game anytime soon. Really excited for Republics though.

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