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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    What a horrible world we live in.
    When the news came in about Sir Patrick, a journalist, somewhere, started ringing around to see what dirt he/she could dig up

    Quite possibly several journalists...

    THAT is the world we live in - THOSE are the people who are making us feel bad for suggesting we rein-in their 'freedom to print what they like'...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Racist, Sexist, Homophobe.
    In today's brainwashed PR-libtard dominated world, these adjectives are almost a badge of honor.

    No idea who that guy was.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    Just to be contrarian, again, but I think he also put 'Female News Readers' into Room 101 on that same episode.
    If he'd chosen "Male News Readers" would you feel the same or is that one of things you can only discriminate against women over? :)

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    In today's brainwashed PR-libtard dominated world, these adjectives are almost a badge of honor.

    No idea who that guy was.
    Let's not go that far eh? We're not suggesting it's OK to hate woman, gays and non-white people - we're suggesting that someone who comes from a world where that was the NORM, might be given a BIT of slack on the topic.

    Ideally I'd like to live somewhere where it's not an issue - because I am, frankly, tired of the hate on both sides...

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    Well at least he didn't shove his views down our throats.

    Unlike you.
    This is the crux of the matter. I don't ever recall him expressing a lot of what's been said about him whenever I'd seen him on Television or read any articles. The man seemed singularly focused on the subject in hand (generally astronomy). If the man was actively there using his celebrity at every given opportunity to express his world views then I think there would be reason to call him to account, but in this situation...I'm not convinced that the knives out are justified least of all when he's still warm on the mortuary slab.
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  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    If he'd chosen "Male News Readers" would you feel the same or is that one of things you can only discriminate against women over? :)
    Oh, I don't feel anything really towards it. Like I said, I was just being contrarian. I don't think it nullifies his positive work, against Science scams and cons, like the Star naming thing, and when he was so vociferously against the work of John Gribbin and his claim that the alignment of the planets causing chaos on the Earth.

    My view is he did some good, and he did some bad. He was a man. No one is perfect. While yes, we shouldn't gloss over anything negative about him, at the same time we shouldn't see his life entirely negatively, because of a few less than agreeable views that he had.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
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    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
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    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    In today's brainwashed PR-libtard dominated world, these adjectives are almost a badge of honor.
    Because you have to be liberal to hate racism, sexism, or homophobia.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Let's not go that far eh? We're not suggesting it's OK to hate woman, gays and non-white people - we're suggesting that someone who comes from a world where that was the NORM, might be given a BIT of slack on the topic.

    Ideally I'd like to live somewhere where it's not an issue - because I am, frankly, tired of the hate on both sides...
    I'm not suggesting that (although I will grant you that someone whose fiancee, an ambulance driver, was killed in WW2, might well be cut some slack for the anti-europe thing). I'm suggesting that Moore contributed to the education and enthusiasm in education of this country non-stop for a lifetime, and that his political views were so irrelevant that most people were completely unaware of them.

    Find me someone who spent half a century succesfully encouraging people to learn about and enjoy the world they live in who also had no stupid or backwards views on something else that had no bearing on their work whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    My view is he did some good, and he did some bad. He was a man. No one is perfect. While yes, we shouldn't gloss over anything negative about him, at the same time we shouldn't see his life entirely negatively, because of a few less than agreeable views that he had.
    Absolutely.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Let's not go that far eh? We're not suggesting it's OK to hate woman, gays and non-white people - we're suggesting that someone who comes from a world where that was the NORM, might be given a BIT of slack on the topic..
    Nope. No slack.

    I know plenty of elderly people were never as repugnant in their beliefs. Age is no excuse.
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  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus neema_t's Avatar
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    Age is no excuse, no. Nothing is, however it is possible to respect the good he did without liking the man. The most important thing, in my opinion, is that he never mixed politics with science as far as I could tell, that's why I knew nothing of his beliefs until I looked him up earlier on. I think he was a bitter, seemingly slightly deranged man and he dealt with the loss of his fiancee by just hating pretty much everything except space. And animals. It's a shame, but don't you think if she hadn't died he might see things a little differently? Not to make him out to be a victim at all, but I know I'd be a different person without my girlfriend, simple as that really.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Nope. No slack.

    I know plenty of elderly people were never as repugnant in their beliefs. Age is no excuse.
    It's almost as inexcusable as writing on a memorial thread 'good riddance.' I see that hate and vileness you were talking about.

  12. #32
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    There's a few levels to this. I don't think anyone here thinks that his views were right. And no-one thinks it was okay for him to have those views. But given that he didn't use his platform to promote those views, and instead used it to promote good stuff, then people are suggesting he be given the tiniest bit of 'slack'.

    And that 'slack' isn't going as far to say that everyone should mourn his death. It's not even going so far as to say that you shouldn't be glad another bigot is dead. It's just suggesting that you give him just enough slack that you don't actively seek out discussions about him on the internet and start revelling in his passing now. Especially given that I'm fairly certain 99% of people who are expressing distaste for his views never once bothered to do so in public while he was alive. Y'know, when there was a chance of actually doing something about it.

    Instead they turn up in threads like this because to tread on other people's memories and act all morally superior.

    There's plenty of living sexist, racist arseholes to be going at.

  13. #33
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    His name was Sir Patrick Moore.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    It's almost as inexcusable as writing on a memorial thread 'good riddance.' I see that hate and vileness you were talking about.
    Indeed. The irony is rather jarring. I do fear this comes across as a case of feeling the need to be righteous and beat on the dead (perhaps taking cues from Mr Walkers twitter lead) without necessarily thinking it though, and lacking the good grace to acknowledge ones poor judgement.

    Needless to say I guess we won't be seeing an RPS Gamemaster retrospectives about Mr Moore during the week. Clearly he'll be erased from the RPS history of gaming books, for his innumerable 'thought' crimes.
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  15. #35
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    Don't see why people care so much about other peoples opinions, I don't like [Pakistanis], am I a bad person? No I've just grown up a white person in a [Pakistani] filled town where they cause nothing but trouble so that shaped my opinion.
    Last edited by Jams O'Donnell; 10-12-2012 at 09:54 AM. Reason: less with the racial slurs, m'kay?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TixyLixx View Post
    Don't see why people care so much about other peoples opinions, I don't like [Pakistanis], am I a bad person? No I've just grown up a white person in a [Pakistani] filled town where they cause nothing but trouble so that shaped my opinion.
    Troll, stupid, or both?

    Unfortunately your post and opinion became invalid the moment you wrote 'they cause nothing but trouble', because clearly no-one of Pakistani descent (although i'm sure a lot of them are from various Asian countries) can do anything worthwhile with their lives and all white people are decent law-abiding citizens right?

    Relating that back to the topic, no one here is suggesting Patrick Moore's racism was a good thing, they're debating whether his bad traits should outweigh the good he performed.

    Carry on.
    Last edited by Jams O'Donnell; 10-12-2012 at 09:54 AM. Reason: had to repeat the editing out of slurs for the quote, sorry

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    So what are you thoughts on Churchill Cooper?

    http://www.zcommunications.org/histo...sh-by-mickey-z

    In language later appropriated by the Israelis, Winston Churchill had this to say about the Palestinians in 1937: "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
    Last edited by Kadayi; 10-12-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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  18. #38
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    I think we can do this about anyone, so many have said what we consider horrible things, Washington etc etc. I think Moore had this horrible streak in him and it is bad, however I don't think I could label him as evil, nor Churchill. Just men. Who could also be bastards.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    I think we can do this about anyone, so many have said what we consider horrible things, Washington etc etc. I think Moore had this horrible streak in him and it is bad, however I don't think I could label him as evil, nor Churchill. Just men. Who could also be bastards.
    I'm just pointing out the absurdity of the vitrol wounded. Moore thought unpleasant things. Churchill actually sanctioned them.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  20. #40
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    I'm glad someone brought Churchill into this - a man view some utterly repugnant views and yet generally seen as having "won WW2" and so untouchable ;)

    I love all the naivete here - people so young they've not yet realised that if you expect perfection, you will ALWAYS - ALWAYS be disappointed. "Never meet your heroes" has deeper meaning than they realise.

    Some of the greatest things achieved by man have been achieved by people who hold vile views or commit vile acts (by our standards - if not by the standards of their time).

    On that basis, everything has to have a context - you cannot do this utterly childish thing of bringing everything into the here and now and judging it all in contemporary terms.

    Wagner created some of the greatest music mankind has ever heard - his personal views were utterly vile BUT it's his music and NOT his views which are his legacy. You don't really come across masses of people gathering to share his views - you DO come across many people gathering to share his music.

    Sir Patrick's legacy is the enthusiasm he created in so many people - no-one, other than "right on" dickheads perhaps - will bring up his views on anything else because it doesn't matter any more...

    and props to those who pointed out the hate spouted at the 'hater'...

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