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  1. #2441
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Amazons - underpowered at high TV levels.
    Drawlien: OP at every level :)

  2. #2442
    Network Hub grinn's Avatar
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    Regarding the new season - is there a league reset on the horizon? I LOVE my Gears to bits, but it feels a bit frustrating for new people coming in to have a frustratingly hard time getting (a) joyously crotch-spiked to infirmity by the likes of Gonzi and Azlop or (b) getting sidesteppingly, blodge, leaped by a pile of veteran flower-sniffers.

    It might be nice to have an established reset schedule - like every four or five seasons or such, so that we ensure that everyone feels like they have a fighting chance against everyone else - at least for a bit. The inducements do help when the dice lend favourable results (see my match against Mrpier :p ), but when a fireball fizzles or those bribes just weren't juicy enough the balancing advantage is lost and it becomes insanely one sided when the TV differences are huge.

    I m also not a big fan of developing teams outside of the league - when you don't really care about winning and have as many tries as you please at getting those juicy stat ups it takes away a bit of the zing of developing teams.


    ALSO

    I was wondering if we could get some sort of mini-newsletter. So many fine writers in here it would be great to have a a few ppl round up what's going on in the league to pep excitement about standings and such up a bit, feature players of note and most importantly, chronicle our great bard's blood bowly yarns. I d be happy to contribute if its a monthly (not weekly) thing.

  3. #2443
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    I like your ideas! Do you have some sort of newsletter I could subsc - oh.

  4. #2444
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laneford View Post
    'Hands. If you emerge tonight, give me a nudge on steam. I should be around.
    Sorry 'ford, I'd seen your earlier message and thought it meant you wouldn't be around on Sunday night. How would Wednesday or Thursday night be?

  5. #2445
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    I'm not comfortable with the idea of raising the cap to make it more concenient to import premade teams. The caps there instead of "new teams only" to make new teams a bit more competitive; you're not supposed to be able to contsruct a killer team at your leisure in the challenge league then bring it in once you've decided it's perfect.

    Harrumph.

    That's only my opinion, mind.
    I agree with the good President.

  6. #2446
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    As an alternative to a hard-coded level cap, how about strict limits on doubles and stat-ups, e.g. you can bring a team in at any TV level but it can have a maximum of one stat up and two double skills?

    The point being, new teams should do the important part of their development within the league.
    When I brought the Storm Boyz in I am pretty sure my troll had block, but the stat ups on that team I achieved the hard way.

  7. #2447
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    I much prefer the format of the Open to the DoD, and on reflection yeah it's simpler and much more fun to level up inside the league than outside as preparation for it - but the current TV values are prohibitive. I think grinn's hit the nail on the head there. I'm in favour of a league reboot every X seasons.

    (Also a newsletter is an awesome idea.)

    EDIT:

    @PW - The issue with that is that some teams (especially Chaos) can get pretty scary without any stat-ups or doubles, though.

    Maybe a limit on number of skill-ups total? And/or a max level of any player on the side? That way a team is allowed to get some devlopment without it being decided by their TV. eg. 20 skill ups total, and level 3 max. Sprinkle in a limit on doubles/stat ups too if you think that's not enough.

    A reboot is much simpler to moderate and, while I am all for that approach, I totally understand why others wouldn't want to let go of their hard-earned teams.
    Last edited by Screwie; 17-07-2012 at 11:22 AM.

  8. #2448
    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    As an alternative to a hard-coded level cap, how about strict limits on doubles and stat-ups, e.g. you can bring a team in at any TV level but it can have a maximum of one stat up and two double skills?

    The point being, new teams should do the important part of their development within the league.
    When I brought the Storm Boyz in I am pretty sure my troll had block, but the stat ups on that team I achieved the hard way.
    Sounds like a good idea, since it addresses your concerns. But it would rule out my Ogres from playing, unless I cut a doubled Ogre and a block snotling and a +mv snotling, which would be a bit Solomon's choice.

  9. #2449
    Network Hub grinn's Avatar
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    Whichever way you cut it it's going to be complicated to have a fair system of outside of league development without a lot of rules and fiddling which needs to be explained, followed checked etc. I'm strongly for NO development outside of the league structure. It's ok to have a feeder league that runs with the same calendar as the premier or whatever we call it, with one relegation/promotion at the end of the season. But we all have one team in the whole league and it follows fixtures etc.

    Non development outside the league is harsh if we go on ad-infinitum but if we have a pre-specified reset then we can all plan for it and everyone knows what to expect.

  10. #2450
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd be OK with a reset every so often. Maybe with a no-playing-the-same-team-as-last-time stipulation, so enforce a bit of variety?

  11. #2451
    Network Hub grinn's Avatar
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    It would be rather boring the play the same team as before but sure, if we had to make a rule of it I d be up for that. Would be nice to see people play different teams.

  12. #2452
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Hmm, a feeder league might well work as a compromise.

    But how do we synch up the seasons if there are different number of teams in the leagues? Does this mean one of the leagues will always be waiting for the other to finish, or do you imagine the feeder league has a challenge structure?

  13. #2453
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinn View Post
    It would be rather boring the play the same team as before but sure, if we had to make a rule of it I d be up for that. Would be nice to see people play different teams.
    I was thinking more for other people's variety - eg I might be happy to play chaos again, but if someone else really wants to try them it gives them a chance to.

  14. #2454
    Network Hub grinn's Avatar
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    I haven't thought about it enough (at work). But initially here's what I had in mind:

    we split the league in two when we start - originally by race/randomness. the top two play each other to be crowned king of all blood bowl. the top half of each league ends up in the premier. the second half in the second division.

    each season x teams get relegated/promoted. the winner of the premier plays the winner of the second division (idea only) so we get that dramatic ending with the uber champion defending their title against the upstart.

    what about ppl dropping out/coming in? well if we start with 20 players (10 in two divisions) with 3 relegations/promotions per season and next season we go up to 24 the 4 new teams automatically start in the bottom league and the top amount of teams being promoted = teams having quit the premier + the gap between the old and size of the league +old promotion number. if the premier league team quits and comes back in they join the second division.

    ex:

    we start with 20 teams - 10 in 2 divs. our ratio of promotion is 1/3 (round down). so 3 get promoted and relegated initially.
    in season 2, 1 team quits the premier, 1 teams quits the second div and 6 teams are on the waiting list. we decide to expand the league (or not) and take in all 6 teams bringing the league total to 24. each div now has 12 teams. the amount of teams promoted would be: 1 (team that quit premier) + 3 (old promotion amount) + 2 (to plug the gap) = 5. The amount of teams relegated would be 3.

    Something along those lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    Hmm, a feeder league might well work as a compromise.

    But how do we synch up the seasons if there are different number of teams in the leagues? Does this mean one of the leagues will always be waiting for the other to finish, or do you imagine the feeder league has a challenge structure?

  15. #2455
    Network Hub drawlien's Avatar
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    I quite like the idea of having a reset every X seasons as it can get a bit tiring playing the same team. However, so as not to lose the team development aspect I think X would need to be dependent on the size of the league (i.e. based on the number of games played rather than seasons which could vary in length). So with the current size league I think X should be at least 3 if not 4 but if the league got considerably smaller X should be bumped up proportionately. I'm not sure if it's worth doing a reset until Chaos edition comes out though (whenever that might be).

    I don't like the idea of splitting the league though. I like the fact that you play a (very) long season and there is a large variety of teams in the current format. Splitting the league would reduce the number of games in the season, and you wouldn't get to play everyone in the league!

  16. #2456
    Network Hub grinn's Avatar
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    Agreed that x should be based on rough number of matches rather than seasons per se.

    I agree with you on not splitting the league. It's been a lot of fun this season maiming, erm, playing everyone in the league :p
    The problem with that is new players joining will have to either start with virgin teams (we could take a fuckit approach to this) or keep the challenge league situation (in which case we need to figure out a more stringent set of rules).



    Quote Originally Posted by drawlien View Post
    I quite like the idea of having a reset every X seasons as it can get a bit tiring playing the same team. However, so as not to lose the team development aspect I think X would need to be dependent on the size of the league (i.e. based on the number of games played rather than seasons which could vary in length). So with the current size league I think X should be at least 3 if not 4 but if the league got considerably smaller X should be bumped up proportionately. I'm not sure if it's worth doing a reset until Chaos edition comes out though (whenever that might be).

    I don't like the idea of splitting the league though. I like the fact that you play a (very) long season and there is a large variety of teams in the current format. Splitting the league would reduce the number of games in the season, and you wouldn't get to play everyone in the league!

  17. #2457
    Lesser Hivemind Node cyberpunkdreams's Avatar
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    Personally, I find these ideas a bit off putting. I know I'm not a member of the league yet, but I'd prefer to keep it as is. We've already got the DoD, which is highly structured and the Challenge, which is a total free-for-all, and the Open, which is kind of in between. By splitting up the league, introducing complex entry requirements and forcing people to reset arbitrarily, we're back into "OMG, so many rules!!!!1!" territory.

    I'm not sure I understand the problem with people developing teams in the Challenge as well. From the sounds of it, the Open is a highly competitive environment, so surely people need to work on their teams before bringing them in, if they're not just going to get immolated? Also, I doubt many people arethat scientific about developing their teams. I know I haven't been... I've just taken the rolls as they've come and tried to win every match. I don't even think I've once favoured one guy over another for a TD to get the SPP (although I have done that in the DoD, to be fair).

  18. #2458
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    I like the idea of periodical league resets, as long as there is enough time between these resets to build up your team. Alternatively, we could set up a completely new league with such a format and keep the Open League running for people who would like to stick with their team until the players are all old and grey. This is an inherent problem of Blood Bowl though: The longer teams develop (especially high AV teams), the greater the gap between them and newer teams will become.

  19. #2459
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    I like the idea of periodical league resets, as long as there is enough time between these resets to build up your team.
    The idea would be that we'd all be restarting with new teams.

  20. #2460
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberpunkdreams View Post
    I'm not sure I understand the problem with people developing teams in the Challenge as well. From the sounds of it, the Open is a highly competitive environment, so surely people need to work on their teams before bringing them in, if they're not just going to get immolated? Also, I doubt many people arethat scientific about developing their teams. I know I haven't been... I've just taken the rolls as they've come and tried to win every match. I don't even think I've once favoured one guy over another for a TD to get the SPP (although I have done that in the DoD, to be fair).
    There are a couple of problems: one is that you're much more likely to go for SPP-generating plays that you might not risk if you were just trying to win. The other is that, if you've got say three teams you're developing with a view to bringing one of them in, which are you going to go for: the one one that's got a bunch of stat-ups, or the one that's taken a bunch of stat-minus injuries? I mean, obviously it's easy for me with my 2100ish chaos with two +STs and two +AGs to say that, but the Goats have been in the Open right from the start and have the niggling injuries to prove it, so it feels like they've earned their (somewhat bloated, I fear) TV; bringing a team up in the Challenge league just isn't the same environment.

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