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  1. #3501
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
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    I have still not had the pleasure of playing Zoraster. Looking forward to it.

  2. #3502
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    So half way in operation try to do better with a dwarf team in the Open than I managed with ‘flings (probably could do with a catchier name) and the flings are ahead by a nose. I’m 1.5 points behind the target pace; a win next round would leave the two teams with identical records after 11 games. The flings are probably further ahead in real terms though as the fixture list is backloaded with the racial match ups that give my dwarf teams the most problems. Should be a tight contest right up to the end of the season.

    And to think some of you scoffed at the suggestion anyone could do better coaching ‘flings than dwarfs :)
    Some people are just better suited to certain races. Dark Elves and Lizards are some of the best teams in BB but I can't play them for toffee. However give me necros, undead, wood elf and skaven teams and its the complete opposite. Hell I have a better record with Goblins than I do with Chaos Dwarfs!

  3. #3503
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20phoenix View Post
    Some people are just better suited to certain races. Dark Elves and Lizards are some of the best teams in BB but I can't play them for toffee. However give me necros, undead, wood elf and skaven teams and its the complete opposite. Hell I have a better record with Goblins than I do with Chaos Dwarfs!
    I see your point, but Necromantic, Undead, Wood Elf, Skaven are all pretty good teams.

  4. #3504
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    I see your point, but Necromantic, Undead, Wood Elf, Skaven are all pretty good teams.
    Better than delf or lizard, I'd say.

    I can't explain the goblin / chaos dwarf thing, though. ;-)

  5. #3505
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    The tier bandings have all those races bar Necro and Lizard in tier 1. However as you'd expect from a conversation discussing the various worth of each race it is hotly disputed how races rank within the tiers. My personal opinion is that wood elves and skaven are at the top end of the tier with dark elves not far below them. Necro and Lizards I don't feel to be tier 2 sides - indeed I would actually rank undead lower than both.

    Its probably worth saying my perception of races is skewed by two factors - firstly my own experiences with them and playing against them and secondly by their performances in the leagues I participate in. Since my arrival in RPS the leagues have had the shadow of Jiiiiiiiims all conquering magnates looming over them. The OCC have had a lizard monopoly at the top end for three seasons too with their most consistent challengers being Dark Elf and Nurgle sides. In the UKBBL where I have recently started playing have been dominated recently by Dark Elves.

    Be interesting to see how others rank the teams and why they feel that way.

  6. #3506
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    It's tricky because lots of teams play better or worse at different levels of development (which I'll shorten to TV even though it's not quite the same thing). Dorfs and Zons start strong but tend to fade a bit, while Nurgle and Chaos usually take a while to get going but become very strong when they do. I think Dark Elf are a touch overrated personally, not because they're bad but because elfs are naturally scary and their playstyle is interesting enough that good coaches looking for a change try them out. Naturally forgiving players plus talented coaches is always going to be bad.

    I reckon the very best teams are Nurgle (once skilled - ferociously effective at defense against bash and agility, but also capable of building a strong offense), Vampire (with at least 4 skilled vamps and several skilled thralls, before that they can really struggle but once the vamps are in place they're terrifying), Chaos Dwarf (at pretty much any TV, solid speed and strong bash) and pretty much anything elf (at any TV, damn elfs), with Chaos (once skilled, always tend to be a shade too slow though), Skaven (any TV, awesome but can fall to pieces scarily easily) and Lizardmen (any TV, but losing a few saurus makes life quite hard) not far behind. Necro and Undead get progressively outbashed as time goes by without getting hugely better at running away so they're not quite there for me, while Orcs never quite get the flare or specialism of the very best (very scary at low to mid TV though).

    The real unknown for me is Slann. On paper they look superb, but I've yet to have a chance to play with or against them.

  7. #3507
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NieA7 View Post
    It's tricky because lots of teams play better or worse at different levels of development (which I'll shorten to TV even though it's not quite the same thing). Dorfs and Zons start strong but tend to fade a bit, while Nurgle and Chaos usually take a while to get going but become very strong when they do. I think Dark Elf are a touch overrated personally, not because they're bad but because elfs are naturally scary and their playstyle is interesting enough that good coaches looking for a change try them out. Naturally forgiving players plus talented coaches is always going to be bad.

    I reckon the very best teams are Nurgle (once skilled - ferociously effective at defense against bash and agility, but also capable of building a strong offense), Vampire (with at least 4 skilled vamps and several skilled thralls, before that they can really struggle but once the vamps are in place they're terrifying), Chaos Dwarf (at pretty much any TV, solid speed and strong bash) and pretty much anything elf (at any TV, damn elfs), with Chaos (once skilled, always tend to be a shade too slow though), Skaven (any TV, awesome but can fall to pieces scarily easily) and Lizardmen (any TV, but losing a few saurus makes life quite hard) not far behind. Necro and Undead get progressively outbashed as time goes by without getting hugely better at running away so they're not quite there for me, while Orcs never quite get the flare or specialism of the very best (very scary at low to mid TV though).

    The real unknown for me is Slann. On paper they look superb, but I've yet to have a chance to play with or against them.
    You hit on a good point which i'd like to embellish a bit - teams having fluctuating effectiveness at different TVs. This is very true and is also affected by the development stage of the team you're playing against (as some of our DoD participants may testify to) Most races have a sort of soft cap where they reach peak efficiency and anything after that, while improving the team, may not make them more efficient. For elves of most descriptions this tends to be around the spiralling expenses point as that is something which can be a real killer for elf teams. Bashier teams with lower player turnover and especially bash teams with regeneration deal with this a lot better so are better suited to ploughing on through the spiralling expenses point. Nurgle and Chaos teams expecially are very effective at around 2200-2300TV as by then they can counter almost everything an opponent can throw at them.

    The other thing that governs how effective a team is compared to their soft cap is inducements. Elves and skaven can compete effectively with these 2300TV bash sides because they are naturally suited to inducements. My DoD skaven side havre gained most their wins when i've had a wizard available as it gives me a decent shot at a defensive TD. The combined effect of where your teams soft cap is and how well suited they are to inducements until they reach that level tends to govern peoples perceptions of the various races.

  8. #3508
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    It might be interesting to run a strictly high-TV league someday.
    We could call it Club 18-3000.

  9. #3509
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    I've got Gears of Mork in the Open next week, which features the first legendary player I have ever played against. Quite exciting really.

    I'm going to (try to) kill him! Tee hee!

  10. #3510
    Lesser Hivemind Node cyberpunkdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    It might be interesting to run a strictly high-TV league someday.
    We could call it Club 18-3000.
    I'd be up for that ;).

  11. #3511
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberpunkdreams View Post
    I'd be up for that ;).
    I'd be impressed if you can get goblins that high :)

  12. #3512
    Lesser Hivemind Node cyberpunkdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20phoenix View Post
    I'd be impressed if you can get goblins that high :)
    Rock'n'roll! Prepare to be amazed!

    (I do play other teams though... ;))

  13. #3513
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Snoozer (OGR) and me (LIZ) had our game tonight. Lots of injuries on both sides, massive amounts of strength clashing throughout the whole game. In the end I won.
    Last edited by Squiz; 24-11-2012 at 02:06 PM.

  14. #3514
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    Grinn remains unresponsive.

  15. #3515
    Lesser Hivemind Node Jolima's Avatar
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    I'll set that game as a win to Janek this evening unless Grinn makes a sudden return.

    Meanwhile I've marked up the next round in the spreadsheet so you can start planning your games out for any time starting tomorrow. The deadline is next Sunday.

  16. #3516
    Network Hub
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    Lowkey any chance you can do monday around 7 uk? Busy work week ahead so it would be a big help to get this out the way quickly.

  17. #3517
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    Grinn - Sunday any good?

  18. #3518
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Pier and I are playing tomorrow 10am.

  19. #3519
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Laneford - Monday night okay?

  20. #3520
    Lesser Hivemind Node Jiiiiim's Avatar
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    BRAIN STAND AND FACE ME

    ideally on Sunday around about like 2pm

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