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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Dark/Demon's Souls are the best representation of the Metroidvania formula since its inception in 1994.
    I don't think they qualify, since you don't gain powers/equipment as you play that allow you to reach new areas and discover secrets in previously explored ones.

  2. #42
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    Tactical Party Turn Based Strategy have seemed lacking the past 5 years. XCom, new Jagged Alliance. Never really seen the likes of Final Fantasy Tactics, Fire Emblem, Luminous Arc, Tactics Ogre, Disgaea, lots more. Maybe since its more of an Japanese thing?

  3. #43
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    Maybe because they also suck as tactical TBS, since the tactics usually end up at "have higher level to defeat the enemy" and "use ice on fire monster".

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Maybe because they also suck as tactical TBS, since the tactics usually end up at "have higher level to defeat the enemy" and "use ice on fire monster".
    That's a gross simplification of some excellent and indepth strategy games. Maybe you avoid all strategy games altogether since they boil down to "have bigger army than enemy"?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    This game (Guilty Gear Isuka) sucks ballz.
    Worth picking up for the soundtrack though.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    Tactical Party Turn Based Strategy have seemed lacking the past 5 years. XCom, new Jagged Alliance. Never really seen the likes of Final Fantasy Tactics, Fire Emblem, Luminous Arc, Tactics Ogre, Disgaea, lots more. Maybe since its more of an Japanese thing?
    I believe that there's a fundamental difference between western turn based tactical games and japanese ones, but I'm having a hard time describing what it is other than origin. If it was just turn based strategy there's a metric crapton. It feels like Wesnoth would be closer to the Japanese games than paradox's prolific output.
    Last edited by Internet; 13-12-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  7. #47
    Lesser Hivemind Node Oshada's Avatar
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    Ooh, what I wouldn't give for a proper PC Fire Emblem game...

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXand View Post
    That's a gross simplification of some excellent and indepth strategy games. Maybe you avoid all strategy games altogether since they boil down to "have bigger army than enemy"?
    Nice try, but in most strategy games getting the bigger army in the first place is the whole... strategy.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Nice try, but in most strategy games getting the bigger army in the first place is the whole... strategy.
    There are many popular strategy games where that's not the case. Dawn of war II relies far more heavily on positioning, use of powers, and terrain than army size. Wesnoth makes army generation trivial and protecting/using high level characters more important. A lot of turn based games depend on creating a situation where your ranged units can hit them and they can't hit yours.
    Last edited by Internet; 13-12-2012 at 12:26 PM.

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Racing games and fighting games.
    And, of course, racing and fighting games. Though I am not sure whether that's a platform issue or if there aren't too many to begin with these days. I'd still love to play another WipEout game on my PC.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  11. #51
    Activated Node qizarate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    I believe that there's a fundamental difference between western turn based tactical games and japanese ones, but I'm having a hard time describing what it is other than origin. If it was just turn based strategy there's a metric crapton. It feels like Wesnoth would be closer to the Japanese games than paradox's prolific output.
    I think Fire Emblem, FF: Tactics, et al are usually classified at Strategic RPGs (SRPGS) rather than TBSs. SRPGs certainly tend to place much more emphasis on giving individual units personality, and allowing you to customise their skills. Something like Advance Wars on the other hand, whilst still Japanese, is most definitely a TBS rather than an SRPG. Now i think about it, Jagged Alliance 2 is far more SRPG than TBS.

    I personally love these sorts of games - it's very easy to become very invested in a match. I've spent many, many hours on the DS remake of Front Mission - Now THERE'S a genre under-represented on PC: Mecha SRPGs. I'd love to see square make a proper front mission game for the PC.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    There are many popular strategy games where that's not the case. Dawn of war II relies far more heavily on positioning, use of powers, and terrain than army size. Wesnoth makes army generation trivial and protecting/using high level characters more important. A lot of turn based games depend on creating a situation where your ranged units can hit them and they can't hit yours.
    Strategy != Tactics

  13. #53
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qizarate View Post
    I think Fire Emblem, FF: Tactics, et al are usually classified at Strategic RPGs (SRPGS) rather than TBSs. SRPGs certainly tend to place much more emphasis on giving individual units personality, and allowing you to customise their skills. Something like Advance Wars on the other hand, whilst still Japanese, is most definitely a TBS rather than an SRPG. Now i think about it, Jagged Alliance 2 is far more SRPG than TBS.
    Battle Moon Wars. It has an English translation patch and everything. Pretty well known Japanese indie SRPG.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Strategy != Tactics
    Wesnoth generally requires you to make an important strategic decision about how and where you want to fight the battle. Once that has been decided, unit choice and use of tactics is far more important than army size.

    Anyways, is that distinction as important with games. Once you abstract enough the lines between the two seem to blur. Is chess a strategic or tactical game?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnki View Post
    Battle Moon Wars. It has an English translation patch and everything. Pretty well known Japanese indie SRPG.
    Thanks, any more? I put up cryptic comet's games but I've never played them.
    Last edited by Internet; 13-12-2012 at 01:56 PM.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about realistic racing games :-S
    I mean the only game that don't have PC ports are Forza/GT5, then the PC has a bunch of exclusives on top of that. I wouldn't call Forza/GT5 realistic either, they're just collectible car porn games.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Nice try, but in most strategy games getting the bigger army in the first place is the whole... strategy.
    I still think you're wrong about the games that Moraven suggested or you'd retract your implication that they're a simple matter of "having a higher level than the enemy". There's a lot more depth to those turnbased games. Battle For Wesnoth is a good example of them. There's levelling in them yeah, but that just makes it all the more devastating a loss when you lose a good unit.

  17. #57
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    Most of these genres are now tragically under represented on consoles too... I bought a ps3 and xbox early in this console box gen to play these types of games and there is very little to choose from, often of very poor quality.

  18. #58
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    I also agree with Zephro that GT5/Forza are clearly not in the same category of the PC racing sims. Although I find they have catched up quite a bit in terms of driving physics in this current generation. Still they are optimized for the masses and gamepads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelz View Post
    arn't the NFS: Shift games reasonably good racing sims? The default is to have most of the driving assists on, but you can turn them off through in-game options. I could be wrong, but I think the developers of Shift/Shift 2 are also the guys that are now making project cars.
    The Shift games are not considered true simualtions, although they were marketed that way. Real sims put full focus on the physics, and Project Cars seems to me mainly all about stunning graphics. I have played a recent Project Cars version, without driving aids, and the advanced tyre model, but I'm not impressed by how it drives yet. My hopes that they move on from Shift gameplay towards ambitious realism have been lowered alot.
    Last edited by bad guy; 13-12-2012 at 10:09 PM.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    I don't think they qualify, since you don't gain powers/equipment as you play that allow you to reach new areas and discover secrets in previously explored ones.
    Blighttown? Painted World? Stonefang Tunnel? Red-eyed/Balder Knights?

  20. #60
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    racing games are not that good in PCs compared to those in gaming consoles.
    would love to see quality games of that genre running on my pc soon.

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