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  1. #581
    Network Hub JayTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NieA7 View Post
    It's funny how this works. Bashy teams are meant to come into their own at high TV, but lose a leveled up blocker and it's incredibly painful to replace him. On the other hand teams that suffer from attrition generally come with reasonable players out of the box that are easy to level if you concentrate on them. Necro's got both - I've not had any problem leveling replacement wolves and ghouls at a reasonable pace (including one of each at the same time recently), but the "new" flesh golem is languishing on 7SPP after 23ish matches and is a bit of a white elephant.

    Basically bash teams have a lot more reason to be frightened of other bash teams than elves do.
    Yeah in 2 seasons I've lost 2 level 4 Tomb Guardians. That lost me 2x Mighty Blow, 2x Guard, a Stand-Firm, and a Grab. Combined with my "replacement" Blitz-Ra, who is still a rookie after something like 18 matches, I'm severely down on the utility the team desperately needs. So while I've got a pair of frankly superb Thro-Ras (Screwie had a nightmare trying to down the Block/Fend/Dodge one), and a really decent MB/Guard/Tackle Blitz-Ra, the previous solid core of Tomb Guardians is sorely lacking. The loss of Mighty Blow being one of the real pains, with only 2x MB on the team it's really not all that scary. Screwie highlighted this by standing the supposedly squishy elves in bashing range nearly the entire match.

    I injured one. With a Kick Skeleton.
    The ST6 Tomb Guardian? One stun, one KO. Useless bastard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiiiiim
    Something you could consider is a drastic TV trim. Retire the bloat, knock off a couple of rerolls, and start again. Might make you mroe competitive.
    I've pondered trimming some fat, but outside of the Block Skeleton and the backup DP Skeleton, there's actually not much bloat in the team. I'm loathe to drop to 12 players by not replacing one with a rookie, so at the most I'm dropping 80TV which is a small drop in the ocean. While dropping re-rolls would net a healthy return on TV (70TV per re-roll), playing Khemri with any less than 3 re-rolls is a nightmare especially with 2 rookie Tomb Guardians and my obsession with rolling 1s.

    I think it's just an uphill struggle from here, as it'll take an age to skill up 2 rookie Tomb Guardians and a second Blitz-Ra and with stats of W:3 D:5 L:6 since moving to Australia, I'm thinking the climate doesn't agree with Khemri. Time to cut them and pick up something else, and frankly I've been pondering a Chaos Dwarf team for ages now... Beards. Yum.

  2. #582
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LowKey's Avatar
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    Dont worry JayTee at least you can smush my poor gobbos next game

  3. #583
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Khemri are sat in an odd place, despite the blind panic the St5 players cause once they get out of base contact they become useless, and if your opponent's decide to start hitting you av7 skeletons and decay tomb guardians make a pretty vulnerable side.

    Once you consider their low scoring potential they almost seem tier 2.
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  4. #584
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    If you go orc resist the temptation of black orcs. They are a waste of TV imho.
    This talk? This talk is crazy talk.

  5. #585
    Network Hub frenz0rz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawHands View Post
    This talk? This talk is crazy talk.
    Despite their relative difficulty to level, particularly before they get block, i'm inclined to agree; i'd still take all four of them on a new orc team. What's your reasoning, Helio? Do you just prefer a more mobile game when playing orcs? In which case, do you skip the troll too?
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  6. #586
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Well my latest orc team took 4 goblins instead, and now I'm not sure I'd ever go back!

    Decay is the real killer for the khemri, they got nerfed too hard in LRB6. The fact that mummies are the best big guys and tomb guardians are the worst speaks volumes.

  7. #587
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Black Orcs are a little overpriced next to Chaos Warriors, but that's because Chaos Warriors are ridunculously cheap. Orcs aren't particularly handicapped by TV issues; I can't imagine not getting all four of the big, tough, dumb, slow, green meatshields. I'd sooner not get the troll - and I'd always get the troll. The troll on the orc team, the beast on the Nurgle team, the trees on the halfling team, those are the ones I wouldn't even think about. For orcs I'd be wondering "lineman or goblin?" but never "black orcs, yay or nay?"
    Although to make an unusual team for flavour I can see making a "goblin" team that doesn't have special weapons but does have orc blitzers in it. Should be interesting to play, and hopefully allow your goblins to do a lot of fouling since you won't need to use bribes to keep the special weapons around, but if you're talking long term league position or win/loss percentage, a standard orc team's going to do better in the long run.

  8. #588
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawHands View Post
    This talk? This talk is crazy talk.
    True. St4, S access, AV9, 4(!) of them - Black Orcs are central to any Orc team apart from a few gimmicky team builds (like serveral Goblins, more Linemen, etc.). BOs are key to pitch control and a very important factor to playing to the Orcs strength.

  9. #589
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    I think he was kidding (he's a pro elf coach, remember...!)

  10. #590
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    He's more of a fouling coach who happens to be playing a pro elf team at the moment. ;-)

  11. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    The fact that mummies are the best big guys and tomb guardians are the worst speaks volumes.
    Mummies and Tomb Guardians are costed as blockers, not big guys. You need to compare them against black orcs, saurus, etc. Also, I would take a Tomb Guardian over any of the big guys as they have no negatrait or loner. They are so reliable!

  12. #592
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Okay then:

    The fact that mummies are the best big guys/blockers and tomb guardians are the worst speaks volumes.

    Still true, whatever your definition :P

  13. #593
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    lol

    Fair enough :)

  14. #594
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Access to 4 str 5 guys whose only negatrait is if you somehow manage to injure one they roll twice on the table is somehow a bad thing?

  15. #595
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    I think he would prefer four mummies...

  16. #596
    I've found that keeping all your skeletons at level 2 with just wrestle will help with bloat. Also, if you are concerned abou TV, run with only one thro-ra and try to score your TDs with your blitzers until you can get MB/PO/tackle.

    i found that wrestle works wonders as it will allow your TGs more maneuverability and let your blitz-ras charge easier. It will open you up to skele fouls, of course, but thems the brakes.

    i have a fairly successful open league team of khemris with that formula

  17. #597
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenz0rz View Post
    What's your reasoning, Helio? Do you just prefer a more mobile game when playing orcs? In which case, do you skip the troll too?
    Not joking, but obviously there are very different ways to develop orcs. Personally I find that starting rerolls and a deep bench is such an important thing for orcs that sacrificing some beef is acceptable. Goblins or line orcs are both valid fillers depending on your style.

    If i was ignoring goblins I might take 1 black orc as a substitute troll.
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  18. #598
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    snip
    Interesting. In my experience Orcs have very little problems with their bench at the start of their career given their overall high AV. Usually BOBs are taken from the beginning since every chance of getting MVPs on them is so valuable. Going 4 BOBs, 4 Blitzers, 2 Linemen, 1 Thrower, 3 RRs costs you 990k. Since Orcs care little for attrition (if you're not facing a lot of claw), you can soon buy another Thrower or the Troll, depending on personal preference. Conservative play usually allowed me to stick with 3RRs, which is quite enough I feel. If you're struggling, you can always buy the 4th one lateron.

    I have a hard time imagining a more effective setup with less than all 4 BOBs.

  19. #599
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    You need a deep bench from the start if you're going to foul every other turn.

  20. #600
    Network Hub potatoedoughnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    Access to 4 str 5 guys whose only negatrait is if you somehow manage to injure one they roll twice on the table is somehow a bad thing?
    TG start with no skills while most big guys start with at least MB and maybe some other useful stuff. This means TG develop slower and cost more once developed.

    Decay plus the lack of MB means that once one dies (which decay helps) it will take longer to level again.

    Most big guys are effective out of the box or with 1 or 2 skills (guard/jugg/stand firm/grab), TG really don't start to do anything other than be st5 until they have several levels.
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