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  1. #4781
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    (It also means that only the champion will stay in the championship each season - should be fun for them!)
    I actually quite like that bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    As for a feeder league, I like the idea of having a legitimate place to train up secondary teams.
    This, though, I explicitly hate. Not for its complexity, or the way it might split players up, or whatever: I just hate the idea of "training up" a team in some non-competitive, take-your-time environment until you feel they're ready, and only then sending them in to the actual DoD competition.

    Edit: and also the farming thing.

  2. #4782
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    I like 3 divisions, as has been established.

    Still won't entirely eliminate the issue, but then I'm not sure how much of a problem it is anyway.

  3. #4783
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janek View Post
    I like 3 divisions, as has been established.

    Still won't entirely eliminate the issue, but then I'm not sure how much of a problem it is anyway.
    Wow, that link is a blast from the past! I don't envy you searching for that in this forum's search function :)

    For the record I was just spitballing on Groovy's suggestion and I'm not actually planting my flag on the feeder division idea.

  4. #4784
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Vexing Vision's Avatar
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    5 Bloodbowl cents from me:

    I loved the two Divisions per tier set up in the beginning, but I can totally deal with 3 Divs per tier as well.


    No to feeder leagues - it's FUN playing those TVs! (Maybe the Dwarf Fortress kind of FUN, but FUN nevertheless.)
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  5. #4785
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    If we are worried about farming just state you only play the same opponent once and then find someone else and your only allowed one entry team of a race for a period of 2 months so you bring in a Khemri team and want to abandon it you wait the 2 months to discourage farming and just roll with the punches as an example for me.

    Also could a kind admin of noble heart validate a Div C game for me Thanks
    Last edited by Hellsraiser; 11-10-2013 at 06:56 PM.

  6. #4786
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    I DISAPPROVE OF CHANGE IN ANY FORM obligatory not in caps section

  7. #4787
    Network Hub frenz0rz's Avatar
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    Having not experienced anything else in my feeble 7 seasons' experience in the DoD (still never been demoted!), I must admit that I am perfectly content with the current league setup with regard to tiers and divisions.

    But then again, I've been content a long while now, and change is good.
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  8. #4788
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawHands View Post
    I'm not exactly an expert on playing with TV deficits (all my teams end up bloating quickly) but on this particular thing, delfs and chdwarfs only start apo-less if you choose to start them that way: if you're concerned about the lizards you could always start with one apoth and induce another.
    I've never seen a Dark elf roster that starts with the apothecary and expects to get anything done at all...as is, if you want even a marginal amount of positionals, you're already down to 2 RRs and no apo to get 5 positionals on a team that has 10 available to them (not that they're all worth taking at any one time). The 4 blitzer, 1 runner, 6 linos and 2 RR starting roster is so good and so used that its almost become the "default" dark elf roster, only occasionally replaced by the 7 lino, 3 blitzer, witch elf roster, which similarly runs 2 RRs and no apothecary.

    By that logic you could almost say "shame on you for not playing an 8 blocker, 2 blitzer, runner, 3 RR, apo dwarf build! anything else is fragile!"

  9. #4789
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    I prefer the 4 blitzer, 7 linemen, 3 TRR starter dark elf roster, personally. If they are the same cost at creation, I would grab the extra TRR over an apoth every time.

    (And having said that, Dread Pools tarted off with a weird 2 runner startup. I don't recommend it.)

  10. #4790
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    As for a feeder league, I like the idea of having a legitimate place to train up secondary teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawHands View Post
    This, though, I explicitly hate. Not for its complexity, or the way it might split players up, or whatever: I just hate the idea of "training up" a team in some non-competitive, take-your-time environment until you feel they're ready, and only then sending them in to the actual DoD competition.

    Edit: and also the farming thing.
    most feeder league formats only allow a fixed number of games. Some, like the OCC's SSC feeder league, actually run their feeder league as a private, "new teams only" scheduled-games league that runs concurrently with their normal season. Others, like BBtactics.com's Crunch Them All open league, is more freeform, with the only teams able to enter their big tournament being fresh teams or teams that have played 6 or less games in the CTA open league (and no other games).

    I'm not at all trying to turn DoD into a copy of another league by any means, i'm just providing info for what i've seen in other leagues to address the potential difficulties faced by new teams. Neither of those leagues REQUIRES you to play in the feeder league, and new teams can still just jump right into the "real" league.

    I'm only in this conversation as someone who was looking for a new scheduled league to get into, but am slightly put off by entering as a 400+ TV underdog for 2 of my 3 starting games, especially since race is picked before seeding. I'm still going to play my games, i'm already planning my inducements, and i'm gonna do my level-best to win it.....but i don't expect this team to be in working condition after my 3 games vs. TV+500 lizards, even TV Chorfs, and TV+600 goblins - to the point it'll probably be worth rerolling ANOTHER rookie team until one survives in workable condition, or i give up trying to overcome the difference.

  11. #4791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    I prefer the 4 blitzer, 7 linemen, 3 TRR starter dark elf roster, personally. If they are the same cost at creation, I would grab the extra TRR over an apoth every time.

    (And having said that, Dread Pools tarted off with a weird 2 runner startup. I don't recommend it.)
    umm, you can't do that...4 blitzer, 7 linemen, 2 TRRs is 990k....thats why people sub the runner for a lino, since its only 10k more, making an even 1000TV. The only way to get 3 TRRs is 2 blitzer (or less) and 9 linos

  12. #4792
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    I really don't like the idea of a feeder league. Your team is born in the divs, lives in the divs and (Open aside) dies in the divs.

    I don't think there's a problem in the lower tiers, playing with inducements is part of the game. While Cyanide not having the full set is a pain in the neck that's just the way things go. For elfs in particular having players die horribly is all part of the game, otherwise they'd just end up beating everything after a while.

    That said if having a big TV gap is putting people off then it's definitely a problem, as the more coaches the merrier. When we were first reorganising the Divs I think I preferred a pyramid structure - 1/2/4/8 divs, which'd hopefully help by making the divs at the bottom broader and more likely to contain a wide range of TV (diluting the "3 vets and a rookie" issue). Switching to 3 team divs all the way down would be fine too, and could hopefully help by adding more depth so constraining the TV ranges in any given tier a little. I'd be quite happy to switch things up either way just to see how they'd work out.
    Last edited by NieA7; 11-10-2013 at 10:10 PM.

  13. #4793
    Network Hub Shards's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I've thrown my Helf team into Div I, it would be an honor if the 3 volunteers were able to apply with their fillers?

  14. #4794
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    To throw in a few cents worth a few seasons back about 3 I think i entered as a brand new team against 2000+ skaven a 1000 human and a 1000 orc which didnt show (i have since gone on regularly facing 400+ 300+ tv differences) and in all honesty you can make wonders happen with the right inducements if your against something bashy its going to hurt if your equal tv or not keep away and if your against agile players they bash you a bit but you have inducements that can alter nicely, its basically doable can be rough but you will stay in the lower end and can bring yourself up.

    Just be brave hang in there and you will get where you need to be.

  15. #4795
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    I can throw a filler Norse team if you want.

  16. #4796
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limdood View Post
    umm, you can't do that...4 blitzer, 7 linemen, 2 TRRs is 990k....thats why people sub the runner for a lino, since its only 10k more, making an even 1000TV. The only way to get 3 TRRs is 2 blitzer (or less) and 9 linos
    Blah sorry. Tiredness. You're right. I meant the 4/7/2 version you listed. The point of it is while the runner is nice, but having AV8 across the board is nicer when you don't have an apoth to protect him yet.

    The team I think I went with for Dread Pool was 2 blitzers, 2 runners, 7 linemen, 3 TRRs. The extra TRR was nice but the lack of Block compared to your standard dark elf side, plus the aforementioned armour problem, was not so fun.

  17. #4797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    Blah sorry. Tiredness. You're right. I meant the 4/7/2 version you listed. The point of it is while the runner is nice, but having AV8 across the board is nicer when you don't have an apoth to protect him yet.

    The team I think I went with for Dread Pool was 2 blitzers, 2 runners, 7 linemen, 3 TRRs. The extra TRR was nice but the lack of Block compared to your standard dark elf side, plus the aforementioned armour problem, was not so fun.
    I was going to try something experimental, with 2 assassins, 3 blitzers, 6 linos, 2 TRR, but i chickened out and swapped my roster when the schedule was posted showing me facing, in order, TV+450 khemri, even up Chorfs, and then TV+600 lizards. Then, after i swapped, the khemri were replaced by goblins, but the lizards got moved to my MD1.

    Think the block will still be better

  18. #4798
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthZombie View Post
    I can throw a filler Norse team if you want.
    Made a team, filled out the spreadsheet accordingly and submitted for Division I.

  19. #4799
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    If you're going to add some sort of feeder league I would recommend the UKBBL's feeder system. Lets say we cap the divisions at tier 3 and then everything below that runs in perpetual conferences. When a space opens in the main tiers the first team in the conference queue gets put in (the longest serving not the 1st placed) You would be unable to run a team in the conferences while you had a team in the main tiers.

    I dislike the proposition of the entire championship being relegated except the winner though and for me this would be gamebreaking (division breaking?) This would increase the luck factor required to win the championship as one bad result could send you out of title contention for two seasons. I much preferred the old style system with the narrow tiers but if that is not likely to be reinstated I am satisfied with the status quo

  20. #4800
    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    This season I have 1600TV chaos dwarves....

    Tier 3 is ridiculous.
    The skill gap more than makes up the difference. I *deserve* to be in tier 3 and have a long history of blockless rats outbashing my chorfs

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