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  1. #521
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    Shadowing is awesome on gutterrunners.

  2. #522
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    Can you choose whether to shadow or not? Does the game give you an option? I'm never sure as to whether diving tackle is just better in most cases.

  3. #523
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Cyanide's game actually asks you if you want to shadow, no matter what option you pick!

    The one bug with it is it seems to check for shadowing before the dodge roll, which is a recent change that seemed to come in with Chaos Edition and is utterly backwards. This only really becomes noticeable when the Shadowing player also has Diving Tackle (not advisable while this bug persists).

    What I love about Shadowing is it gets exponentially better the higher your MA is. Not only does it work more often against more opponents, it effectively makes your fastest players even faster.

    Also, according to the CRP if there's a 5-point difference in MA in favour of the Shadower then it will never fail. Not sure if that holds true for Cyanide or not, but that is a scary thought...

  4. #524
    Network Hub frenz0rz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    Can you choose whether to shadow or not? Does the game give you an option? I'm never sure as to whether diving tackle is just better in most cases.
    As with other skills, you can choose whether to make it optional or not in the game settings. A word of warning to all who've not yet realised - chaos edition resets all your optional skills! I watched a nasty game earlier this week where poor BigC was forced to use multiple block on his mummy when blocking a minotaur. Not fun!
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  5. #525
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    Cyanide's game actually asks you if you want to shadow, no matter what option you pick!

    The one bug with it is it seems to check for shadowing before the dodge roll, which is a recent change that seemed to come in with Chaos Edition and is utterly backwards. This only really becomes noticeable when the Shadowing player also has Diving Tackle (not advisable while this bug persists).

    What I love about Shadowing is it gets exponentially better the higher your MA is. Not only does it work more often against more opponents, it effectively makes your fastest players even faster.

    Also, according to the CRP if there's a 5-point difference in MA in favour of the Shadower then it will never fail. Not sure if that holds true for Cyanide or not, but that is a scary thought...
    If there's a 5 point difference in favour of the shadower then there's every chance that the shadowee is big and scary, and the shadower is small and fragile. In those instances, I'd be begging my opponent to shadow me. Oh no, how will I ever dodge away (SMASH!) from my relentless pursuer? (PUNCH) Whatever will I do? (Wet, gristly sound, muffled scream)

  6. #526
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    lol

    10 characters

  7. #527
    Network Hub frenz0rz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    If there's a 5 point difference in favour of the shadower then there's every chance that the shadowee is big and scary, and the shadower is small and fragile. In those instances, I'd be begging my opponent to shadow me. Oh no, how will I ever dodge away (SMASH!) from my relentless pursuer? (PUNCH) Whatever will I do? (Wet, gristly sound, muffled scream)
    Heh. Depends on the shadower I suppose - im sure we've all experienced that one little blodging sacrificial lamb next to your big guy who you simply cannot seem to roll a defender down for on a two die block. You can batter him away for a turn before he comes back, but your only sure method of escape is to use your blitz.
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  8. #528
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    If the Shadower also has Dodge and Side Step, it's not so easy. But yes variations on bashing are the typical counters.

    Not that it needs to be so extreme - a 4-point difference only has a 2.7% chance of Shadow failing, a 3-point difference 8.3%. Thanks to the 2d6 probability curve it starts in your favour (58% chance of success at even MA) and ramps up quickly.
    Last edited by Screwie; 30-01-2013 at 03:04 PM.

  9. #529
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    I guess. It's just that shadow failing does not lead to a turnover - it just means that to move a second square you have to dodge again.

    I'm thinking that it could be used to drag the shadower (say) next to some wrestly/tackly bugger who could then block the marker away. Or you could put them in a square to allow them to be crowdsurfed. Or something. I just thing that DT might be better.

    Dunno though.

  10. #530
    Network Hub potatoedoughnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    I guess. It's just that shadow failing does not lead to a turnover - it just means that to move a second square you have to dodge again.

    I'm thinking that it could be used to drag the shadower (say) next to some wrestly/tackly bugger who could then block the marker away. Or you could put them in a square to allow them to be crowdsurfed. Or something. I just thing that DT might be better.

    Dunno though.
    DT puts your guy on the floor though, even if it fails, which might leave you open to a foul (usually DT is on a developed player that your opponent would be happy to remove).

    Also if you ever don't want to use a skill you can double click the big skill window in match to manually turn skills on/off. I've used this to turn off tackle (which isn't optional for some reason) and turn off stand firm for chain pushes. It would also work in the case you forgot to make a skill optional. It's kind of a pain, but it's better than having to multi block every turn if you don't want to.
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  11. #531
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LowKey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    I guess. It's just that shadow failing does not lead to a turnover - it just means that to move a second square you have to dodge again.

    I'm thinking that it could be used to drag the shadower (say) next to some wrestly/tackly bugger who could then block the marker away. Or you could put them in a square to allow them to be crowdsurfed. Or something. I just thing that DT might be better.

    Dunno though.
    Actually a few times in the game a shadower followed a goblin for its whole movement so you propose a viable tactic, a better coach would have used it to better effect than I

  12. #532
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    I guess. It's just that shadow failing does not lead to a turnover - it just means that to move a second square you have to dodge again.
    If the Shadower falls behind, it's still useful for getting them to move around the field, and typically out of tackle zones.

    While Shadowing doesn't cause turnovers directly, every time that player leaves your tackle zone they have to dodge. So the skill can cause turnovers by attrition, since Dodge and Break Tackle only work once a turn (and it's especially evil against Break Tackle users). Turning a single dodge roll into two, three or more is very disruptive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    I'm thinking that it could be used to drag the shadower (say) next to some wrestly/tackly bugger who could then block the marker away. Or you could put them in a square to allow them to be crowdsurfed. Or something. I just thing that DT might be better.
    At any step the Shadower can simply choose to stop, so unless it's imperative they chase the shadowee down they probably won't run into that kind of trap.

    If you did lure the Shadower into the TZ of a nasty tackler or another trap, the shadowee is still wasting their action for the turn. More likely the tackler will just charge in and blitz the Shadower out the way - it's generally better economy of actions, not least because the shadowee is generally someone you want to waste a turn repositioning.

    I like both Shadowing and DT. Which of them is more useful really depends on your opponent, which is why I like to have both (just not on the same player).
    Last edited by Screwie; 30-01-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  13. #533
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenz0rz View Post
    Heh. Depends on the shadower I suppose - im sure we've all experienced that one little blodging sacrificial lamb next to your big guy who you simply cannot seem to roll a defender down for on a two die block. You can batter him away for a turn before he comes back, but your only sure method of escape is to use your blitz.
    This, good Sir, is why we use three die blocks against those pests.

  14. #534
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    Generally speaking I've found if a player's fast enough to make good use of shadowing I'd rather not have them cuddling up to anything with evil intent. It's been a proper pain when I've had to play against it though, especially for Amazons. I guess it could be a good option for skaven and elf linemen, plus maybe general catchers specifically built for it, but in general I prefer diving tackle.

  15. #535
    Activated Node Eard's Avatar
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    Excellent, by doing nothing I ended up correct!

    (sorry, saw the update but totally forgot to reapply my team :( )

  16. #536
    Network Hub Axler's Avatar
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    Division F

    Necrosity (Axler) 3 Vs 0 Red Alert Military (Elesium)


    A rather severe nuffling decided this one unfortunately. Elesium just couldn't get a break in between dropped balls bouncing into my players hands, ablitz which resulted in a defensive TD and the worst of them all a pitch invasion which knocked over 6 of his Dwarfs inlcuding both Trollslayers and Ironjaw on my offence leaving his defense with no way to stop my team charging into his half. He had a brief moment of luck when he fireballed my cage causing a injury and KO to my Golem and ball carrying Ghoul respectively then injuring my Star Wolf the next block but nuffle turned away from him again soon after and my other WW scooped up the ball and ran in my third TD.

  17. #537
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eard View Post
    Excellent, by doing nothing I ended up correct!

    (sorry, saw the update but totally forgot to reapply my team :( )
    No worries, I can hardly complain that you applied to the Division you were supposed to, well before the deadline :)

  18. #538
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Had some decent injury dice but my go for it dice were appalling. Some people think the chances of failing a go for it, with a reroll, are around 1/36. Those fools have no idea what they are talking about - I have empirical evidence that it's around 2/3. In the first half I'd successfully switched the play and was charging the lone ball carrier up the opposite side of the pitch from all the other players. There was one ghoul who could have got into base contact, with 2GFIs, the following turn, and no other player who could get into blocking range to stop the touchdown once I'd blitzed the sidestep-less ghoul away. My player failed a go for it, and failed the reroll.
    The following turn I failed another go for it scrambling to get back in position (after using up my reroll on a double skull in my first block, which was supposed to free up a player and reduce the need for go for its). The turn after that, only one beastman could possibly prevent Under7s touchdown. He made a heroic dodge, and another (it helps that he's ag4 and has dodge), charged down the pitch... and failed a go for it and a reroll.

    At that point I began to swear at the dice in all caps. Under7 was very understanding.

    Don't get me wrong - I don't think I deserved a victory. For starters, after my usual starting formation had failed against Under7 I set up exactly the same way the next time. But I should never have seen my opening touchdown turn into Under7's opening touchdown like that.
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    Last edited by President Weasel; 31-01-2013 at 09:47 AM.

  19. #539
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    Axler was a great sport the entire game and Nuffle really threw all he could at me. Looks like this won't be a fun season, with almost 900TV separating me from Gorms team, I just hope to survive this Season.

  20. #540
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    You're playing dwarfs....

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