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  1. #21
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    I can't think of any places where first aid kits are lying around such that when I cut myself I only have to walk down a straight line until I find one.
    These are issues of aesthetic fluff, not game mechanics. Yes, it would be very silly for a realistic modern-day shooter to use tasty cooked poultry lying around on the floor, as in Wolf3d. Not really less silly than the status quo, however.

    On the other hand, regenerating health often removes a bit of the danger but if you don't think of it as health but as being pinned down or something, it makes more sense.
    See, I wish more games would actually do this rather than letting players rationalize it thus. Most FPSes with regenerating health turn the screen red and even bloody, as if you're actually being hit. It's absurd. I despise the one-number HP system in RPGs for similar reasons. Darklands had separate points for endurance and vitality. Opponents doing "damage" would tire you out quickly, but not always actually wound you.

    However you justify your system, the mechanics are most important. How does it affect how players approach your game? Does it have the desired result? I can't see that standard regen ever produces a satisfying challenge.
    Last edited by TillEulenspiegel; 21-07-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Regenrative health for me does not make things easier, in fact I don't find any difference in the challange to ba honest. Usually a designer if he has regenrative health will probably take the difficulty to make sure it goes with the Regenrative health so its actually as hard as health packs to be honest.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Riddick had a nice regenerating system where your health was divided in chunks that could regenerate if they weren't completely drained, in the case the chunk was consumed you lost it until you found a med station

  4. #24
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    One of my problems with health pack and HP system, in FPSes at least is that they waste my time in a similar way to regenerating health. Regenerating health means you spend a lot of time often just crouching and waiting to recover. HP systems mean that in games like the original HL, I would often complete a combat encounter, then decide I had lost too much HP in it, suicide and repeat said encounter until I felt I'd lost a reasonable amount of health. Neither of those is great, really.

  5. #25
    Network Hub Jeremy's Avatar
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    I think really, with any game design, there are going to be limitations when compared to real world situations. In a way, that's the job of a game designer, to interpret real world systems into a game that makes it both fun, and compatible. It seems that most of us here recognize that, and see that a game's health system should fit in with it's play style. There isn't a perfect way to show realistic health loss, and in the case of limb damage, designers would even have to draw a line with that. I'm not sure it would benefit either parties to have the main character lose a leg in the first mission :)

    Personally, I prefer the medkit/health pack/consumable method, but that's because I lean towards playing survival games. I can't imagine playing New Vegas or Stalker with a regenerative health system.. but like others have said, that system really wouldn't make sense in Call of Duty.

  6. #26
    Network Hub Liqourish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I think really, with any game design, there are going to be limitations when compared to real world situations. In a way, that's the job of a game designer, to interpret real world systems into a game that makes it both fun, and compatible. It seems that most of us here recognize that, and see that a game's health system should fit in with it's play style. There isn't a perfect way to show realistic health loss, and in the case of limb damage, designers would even have to draw a line with that. I'm not sure it would benefit either parties to have the main character lose a leg in the first mission :)
    Games generally don't try to emulate reality, they use it as a reference to give context to the actions. Making a realistic wounding system is fine and dandy (tactical shooters of old did this quite well) but it's not necessarily fun, especially if the rest of your game is focused on having a grand story-driven shooting gallery with lots and lots of set pieces and explosions.
    Last edited by Liqourish; 21-07-2011 at 04:10 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #27
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    Did the first CoD have health regen? I keep thinking it didn't, but can't remember health packs. I might be getting it muddled with Medal of Honour, but I'm fairly certain it didn't and may not have had it for the second too.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    The old cod didn't have regen.
    I think it was introduced in the second game.

  9. #29
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    Well there you go! CoD the first was a pretty damn good game.

  10. #30
    Network Hub Jeremy's Avatar
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    I mostly agree Liquorish. However, there are definitely things within reality that games try to emulate. Survival games, military simulations (ARMA series), etc. emulate reality or potential realities in a way that would be fun to play. Survival game in particular have to find that fine balance between giving us the impression of "surviving" while removing the tedious aspects of it. Sadly, some of the potentially interesting parts of survival don't translate well into gaming, such as how a person would deal with loneliness, mental stress, etc. Give me a game that intelligently brings emotional relationships into a survival mechanic, and I would be very intrigued.

    Edit: Just realized this was an official derail of the intended thread. My apologies.

  11. #31
    Activated Node BathroomCitizen's Avatar
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    I think that in a multiplayer game renerating health is quite bad. If I win a fight I'll just take cover and regenerate all my health, even if I made a lot of mistakes in a fight. This promotes at the same time a lot of camping and makes the game all too forgiving.

    Damn, if I make a mistake I should be paying for it!

  12. #32
    Activated Node Basilicus's Avatar
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    Far Cry 2. Health was divided into five bars, each representing 20%. If you still had a little bit of health in a bar, say 33%, you'd regen that bar to 40%.

    BUT! You can only carry 5 syrettes, which get you back to full health. In a heavy firefight, you can go through them pretty quickly, but in lighter encounters, do you let your health sit at 40% or 60% to save your syrettes or top your health off to be safe?

    BUT! BUT! Once you go below a certain level, you get an injury. You'll need to find cover very quickly in order to pull that bullet from your arm, cauterize a wound, snap your wrist back into place, etc. or you'll pass out very quickly.

    BUT! BUT! BUT! If you've met up with your designated buddy before the fight, when you pass out from a wound or go below zero health, your buddy will show up, drag you a bit away and provide cover while you heal up.

    BUT! BUT! BUT! BUT! You can't always rely on this. Your buddy needs to be reset by meeting him at a safehouse. Additionally, he or she can only sustain so much damage before falling in battle and requiring your help, and if the cumulative damage across the game is high enough, your buddy will fall and only give you the option of leaving them to suffer or putting them out of their misery.

    BUT! BUT! BUT! BUT! BUT! You also have malaria attacks that can and will severely hamper you in the middle of a fight and that require immediate medication.

    Far Cry 2. Ladies and gentlemen, the best hybrid health system that ever was.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Tikey View Post
    The old cod didn't have regen.
    I think it was introduced in the second game.
    Yup. Mind you, CoD 2 was a major step forward in the series, an the first CoD was already better than most of the games out at the time. Makes you wonder where it all went to hell. (quick answer: after CoD4:MW)

  14. #34
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    Personally, I think it depends on the game: something like Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead wouldn't be nearly as good with regenerating health, because it would remove the element of tension and the sense that everyone needs to work together to stay alive. That being said, for a single player experience (particularly one that isn't focused on survival like, lets say, Mass Effect) i'll take regenerating health any time. I don't want to be wasting time desperately scavenging for health packs instead of actually playing the game (this is what killed Fallout 3 for me).

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basilicus View Post
    Far Cry 2. Ladies and gentlemen, the best hybrid health system that ever was.
    Quite a few games had injury systems, locational damage, diseases and companions.

  16. #36
    Network Hub Mihkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Quite a few games had injury systems, locational damage, diseases and companions.
    In FPS'? The kind of health system Basilicus is talking about I've seen in Medal of Honour: Airborne and both Riddick games. Also to be fair the injury thing in FC2 is more cosmetic, you don't run any slower or shoot worse because of that.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihkel View Post
    In FPS'? The kind of health system Basilicus is talking about I've seen in Medal of Honour: Airborne and both Riddick games. Also to be fair the injury thing in FC2 is more cosmetic, you don't run any slower or shoot worse because of that.
    No. I wasn't thinking of FPSs. Should I have been?

  18. #38
    Activated Node Basilicus's Avatar
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    Quite a few games had injury systems, locational damage, diseases and companions.
    Yes, but all at once? (FC2 did not have locational damage. Since you wouldn't be conscious long enough for it to matter if you didn't immediately treat it, it would've been a waste of programming.)

    Deus Ex had locational damage, Riddick had the tiered health, most RPGs have effects and diseases, and many FPSs have companions, whose health you don't have to worry about (Alyx, for instance) unless they're annoying escort missions.

    Far Cry 2 did a great job of layering systems over each other and in making the companion the babysitter rather than you.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basilicus View Post
    Yes, but all at once? (FC2 did not have locational damage. Since you wouldn't be conscious long enough for it to matter if you didn't immediately treat it, it would've been a waste of programming.)

    Deus Ex had locational damage, Riddick had the tiered health, most RPGs have effects and diseases, and many FPSs have companions, whose health you don't have to worry about (Alyx, for instance) unless they're annoying escort missions.

    Far Cry 2 did a great job of layering systems over each other and in making the companion the babysitter rather than you.



  20. #40
    Lesser Hivemind Node Flint's Avatar
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    Now you're just being deliberately silly.
    Give me steam and how you feel to make it real.

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