From Dust UbiDRM???

[Kadayi]

No they're considering it on a case-by-case basis for new games too as far as I can tell. Even after they started patching it out, they stated that it might still be used in new titles: http://www.shacknews.com/article/670...onger-requires

Deano, that's lawyer speak at work. You never make a statement that could be used against you in future (George Bush Seniors 'No more Taxes' being the classic example). However as Quanta rightly points out the whole always on DRM with AC2 was such a huge PR pain in the arse that Ubi are highly unlikely to ever go down that road again. AC:B didn't have it and that sold extremely well on PC. There is little if any incentive for Ubi to court further controversy again.

This game was: Day one purchase.
This game now is: Day one piracy.

Good job, Ubisoft.

Do you ever read anything beyond the first post?

Well done Dust, you were a £5 purchase, you are still a £5 purchase but now all the comments threads about the game will have 25% DRM bitching.

25% BS DRM at that.

The whole 'always online' aspect was completely overplayed at the time anyway. Because of the DRM I didn't buy AC2 straight away, however when it hit half price I snapped it up because I wanted to see how well Venice had been realized and truth be told I didn't encounter one problem whatsoever playing it (an extremely polished title it has to be said). That there are people even now who despite the fact that 'always online' element has been removed still refuse to buy it, is bemusing really.

[R-F]

Do you ever read anything beyond the first post?

What the hell are you even talking about?

[Vandelay]

25% BS DRM at that.

The whole 'always online' aspect was completely overplayed at the time anyway. Because of the DRM I didn't buy AC2 straight away, however when it hit half price I snapped it up because I wanted to see how well Venice had been realized and truth be told I didn't encounter one problem whatsoever playing it (an extremely polished title it has to be said). That there are people even now who despite the fact that 'always online' element has been removed still refuse to buy it, is bemusing really.

This is so very true. Even if the connection was lost, it quickly reconnected, with only a few seconds delay. I can certainly understand why people didn't like it, but the fury over it was a bit extreme, particular after it was dropped. I wouldn't have bought at full price, solely because of the DRM, but at sub £10 I wouldn't refuse.

Can we start talking about the game now? It does look rather good and is an absolute bargain.

[QuantaCat]

Can we start talking about the game now? It does look rather good and is an absolute bargain.

No we cant, because this a OMG DRM BITCH thread. I hope it dies horribly, and we can concentrate on the OTHER from dust thread which I started which is a lot more constructive.

EDIT: also for the record, I bought AC2 because it was brilliant. Screw the DRM, it never failed me, and the one time it did, I only had time for ten minutes of play anyhow. And for that one time, they reimbursed me with a game of my choice, which was Prince Of Persia (the cellshading remake) and that game was brilliant. So... Yes, it is like steam, it only needs to confirm once. It doesnt even need to run in the background, its part of the game. And I dont need to be online to play the game. Not at all.

[Lukasz]

No we cant, because this a OMG DRM BITCH thread. I hope it dies horribly, and we can concentrate on the OTHER from dust thread which I started which is a lot more constructive.

EDIT: also for the record, I bought AC2 because it was brilliant. Screw the DRM, it never failed me, and the one time it did, I only had time for ten minutes of play anyhow. And for that one time, they reimbursed me with a game of my choice, which was Prince Of Persia (the cellshading remake) and that game was brilliant. So... Yes, it is like steam, it only needs to confirm once. It doesnt even need to run in the background, its part of the game. And I dont need to be online to play the game. Not at all.

not once but every time you start a game. steam does not do that.

and you sure might be fine with your customers rights being taken away but please don't expect others to do the same thing.
I for example I find your story ridiculous. "Oh. It only happened once. No big deal..." It never happened for me with any game I had played over 20 years of gaming. It didnt' happen when playing on 64 kbs net connection which would drop out every 5 min by itself, it didn't happen when i did not have net connection at all.
and it is not like steam is great in that regards either. ubi is just worse.

the drm discussion is as valid as anything else you might say about this game. It is no sale even on sale for me. Like any ubisoft games nowodays till they officially remove this drm and just stick to traditional cd check, d2d, steam, or gg drm. I am not going to even buy the game and then pirate it so i don't have to be bothered by their drm...

it's just a game. its not like there is nothing else to play out there without being bitchslapped for being a good paying customer.

[QuantaCat]

Yes, and I don't care and want to see more talk about the game rather than about the silly system the publisher has on it. Hence:
Die, Thread!™

(PS: I could start the game offline, no logging in whatsoever)

[Kadayi]

Not once but every time you start a game. Steam does not do that.

Steam will work in offline mode yes, but if you want to patch your games you need to be online, like you are right now, reading this forum, maybe also watching youtube videos of adorable cats, or looking up Natalie Portmans Oeuvre on IMDB, or downloading a podcast through Itunes.

Even if the game requires an initial internet connection to start, how many people are truly negatively impacted by that in actual reality? Howe often do you lose you truly lack for an active internet connection for a sustained period of time? Some douche hipster with a fancy alienware Laptop up a mountain in Tibet trying to find himself might have problems granted, but I say fuck that guy. Denying yourself a game over him is a mistake.

[Lukasz]

Yes, and I don't care and want to see more talk about the game rather than about the silly system the publisher has on it. Hence:
Die, Thread!™

(PS: I could start the game offline, no logging in whatsoever)

sure you don't care. but this is thread about the drm of the game isn't it? so let others discuss it okay?

and i was under assumption that you CANNOT start ubigames without net connection. how could you start the game offline then?
Genuine question...

Steam will work in offline mode yes, but if you want to patch your games you need to be online, like you are right now, reading this forum, maybe also watching youtube videos of adorable cats, or looking up Natalie Portmans Oeuvre on IMDB, or downloading a podcast through Itunes.

yes... your point tough? Net is not always available for everyone. When you hit the download limit the net can go broken entirely. or there is a storm for people who sit on mobile phone internet. or leave outside major areas. Still could play ME2 when i was disconnected from internet as i forgot to pay the bill. my fault but it took almost a month of setting up a new connection. I played steam games no problem back then.

Even if the game requires an initial internet connection to start, how many people are truly negatively impacted by that in actual reality?

not many.

Some guy with a fancy alienware Laptop up a mountain in Tibet maybe? I say fuck that guy, fuck that sanctimonious prick in the ass.

Nice approach to life. FUCK HIM! because i don't give a fuck about other gamers only I count? Because you don't have laptop who can play games, because you happen to have a never-fail internet connection. who care about others as long as you get your cake eh?

but seriously now. That kind of drm is fine for some people. but as it is just one of 500 games being released a year why would I support something which is completely pointless and only brings problem to people who were honest and bought the game. while pirates can play without worries?
nah. fuck ubi. i have others games to play

[QuantaCat]

I just did. Atleast I'm 99% sure. I dont have any Assassins Creed installed atm, so I can't really double check. But I'm pretty sure I played AC:Brotherhood offline. Completely.

[Lukasz]

I just did. Atleast I'm 99% sure. I dont have any Assassins Creed installed atm, so I can't really double check. But I'm pretty sure I played AC:Brotherhood offline. Completely.

that... kinda goes against what ubi says themselves... and if it is true than whatever i said is not valid either :D

[Kadayi]

Nice approach to life. FUCK HIM! because i don't give a fuck about other gamers only I count? Because you don't have laptop who can play games, because you happen to have a never-fail internet connection. who care about others as long as you get your cake eh?

LOL. You either get it or you don't and quite clearly you don't. Forget the scaremongering, do the math on the probability.

Chance of playing game x chance of internet actually going down

Length of game/ player life span

and then come back with a suitable level of outrage for the insanely small odds that your internet happens to fall down right at the very moment when the fate of humanity is inextricably bound in with you being able to activate your copy of AC2. Holy shit, the internets down FUKU GMail!!!! Google I pirate all your apps from here on in!!!

Also nice to see you do have a shift key. Maybe give that baby a bit more of an airing in future.

[Lukasz]

LOL. You either get it or you don't and quite clearly you don't. Forget the scaremongering, do the math on the probability.

Chance of playing game x chance of internet actually going down

Length of game/ player life span

and then come back with a suitable level of outrage for the insanely small odds that your internet happens to fall down right at the very moment when the fate of humanity is inextricably bound in with you being able to activate your copy of AC2. Holy shit, the internets down FUKU GMail!!!! Google I pirate all your apps from here on in!!!

its not about probability... its not about odds.

What you are saying: "Oh. its alright for a company which received my money to inconvenience me. I mean... it won't probably happen but they sure can do it."

You don't own anything to ubisoft. Their job is to make the best possible product and you are doing them a favour for buying it. Not the other way around.
Since clearly the drm does not work and lack of it would not prevent from making money back on the product as other companies somehow do manage to make games profitable without that drm.
The drm is just to remove your rights as a customer, to control when and how you play the game. the more draconian system did not work but the idea still lives.
As a customer you have the right to chose what you like. if you don't care about your rights and go ahead. Go buy the game. I have 500 other games to choose this year. almost all without horrible drm. It is not like I own anything to the developers or to publisher.

also what about 8 years from now? will servers be up? EA turned theirs off but it was just for MP.

Also nice to see you do have a shift key. Maybe give that baby a bit more of an airing in future.

I used it twice for an emphasis in a lengthy post. Not sure whether you are serious or it is just a silly joke, but if you cannot spot a simple emphasis on a crucial part of the sentence....

[Vandelay]

Personally, I'm more interested in supporting creativity and original ideas in gaming than worrying about DRM that will effect a very, very small amount of people. From Dust looks to be one of the most interesting games to be released in a long time, so it is a definite purchase.

Also, a lot of the issues people raise concerning the DRM are problems with their ISP. That's where the anger should be aimed.

[QuantaCat]

also what about 8 years from now? will servers be up? EA turned theirs off but it was just for MP.

Wouldnt worry about that. Most games that are seriously still being played after the time the servers are off, have good hacks, or a large enough community to know how to get by it.

That and, I dont want to answer here anymore, so bye now.

[Kadayi]

its not about probability... its not about odds.

Because protesting about the extremely improbable temporary denial of an entertainment product is a wholly worthwhile pursuit no? Get some perspective.

Also, a lot of the issues people raise concerning the DRM are problems with their ISP. That's where the anger should be aimed.

^ This also.

[deano2099]

Deano, that's lawyer speak at work. You never make a statement that could be used against you in future (George Bush Seniors 'No more Taxes' being the classic example). However as Quanta rightly points out the whole always on DRM with AC2 was such a huge PR pain in the arse that Ubi are highly unlikely to ever go down that road again. AC:B didn't have it and that sold extremely well on PC. There is little if any incentive for Ubi to court further controversy again.

Maybe, what you're missing though is that AC2 also sold extremely well on PC despite the DRM. I personally think Ubi released AC:B without the evil DRM for a very good reason, that is it offers a solid point of comparison with AC2. They appeal to the exact same audience, one with draconian DRM, one without. So all they need to do now is look at both games and see which sold more on PC. If AC2 outsold AC:B, then they'd be silly not to revert to the old DRM.

As for the wider point, I think we all agree that a net check on start-up is a bit annoying. A tiny, tiny, tiny, inconvenience for most of us sure, but I don't think anyone would argue we (the consumer) would not be better off without it. Obviously a lot of you don't really care, but maybe lay off the guy that's making a noise and trying to stand on our behalf? Because if he gets his way we'll all be better off.

Right now any sort of on-load DRM is a minor inconvenience to me, but I remember being a student and moving house every year for 4 years. Every year it took anything from 1-3 weeks to get the internet connected to a new property. I'd have been quite narked if I couldn't play any games during that period. Obviously that isn't the situation we're in now, as only a few games have this DRM, but the point is you have to be aware that if you don't stand against it now, eventually every game will have that DRM. So if your internet goes down you won't be able to play any game. Still probably only a minor inconvenience, but it's not uncommon for people to say, take a day off work to play a hugely anticipated new release.

[Lukasz]

Because protesting about the extremely improbable temporary denial of an entertainment product is a wholly worthwhile pursuit no? Get some perspective.

I am not protesting! Merely saying that there are better games out there to spend my money on without useless drm.

[Nalano]

Maybe, what you're missing though is that AC2 also sold extremely well on PC despite the DRM. I personally think Ubi released AC:B without the evil DRM for a very good reason, that is it offers a solid point of comparison with AC2. They appeal to the exact same audience, one with draconian DRM, one without. So all they need to do now is look at both games and see which sold more on PC. If AC2 outsold AC:B, then they'd be silly not to revert to the old DRM.

As for the wider point, I think we all agree that a net check on start-up is a bit annoying. A tiny, tiny, tiny, inconvenience for most of us sure, but I don't think anyone would argue we (the consumer) would not be better off without it. Obviously a lot of you don't really care, but maybe lay off the guy that's making a noise and trying to stand on our behalf? Because if he gets his way we'll all be better off.

Right now any sort of on-load DRM is a minor inconvenience to me, but I remember being a student and moving house every year for 4 years. Every year it took anything from 1-3 weeks to get the internet connected to a new property. I'd have been quite narked if I couldn't play any games during that period. Obviously that isn't the situation we're in now, as only a few games have this DRM, but the point is you have to be aware that if you don't stand against it now, eventually every game will have that DRM. So if your internet goes down you won't be able to play any game. Still probably only a minor inconvenience, but it's not uncommon for people to say, take a day off work to play a hugely anticipated new release.

That's something of a false equivalence. For starters, they're largely the same game. "If you'll like this, you'll pay more when we re-release it!"

It's like a test to determine if you're a witch: Either way the "witch" dies. In this case, either way, it's a win/win for the company: If AC:B outsells AC2, then they make money hand over fist. If it doesn't, they'll blame the pirates. Why should I play their game? I don't owe the company anything.

I didn't buy AC2. I didn't buy AC:B. AC2 was mildly appealing to me, but fuck if I was gonna suffer through that sort of DRM nonsense. My internet went out for a week not too long ago because the superintendent of a building nearby used a chainsaw to fell a tree in the alleyway and tangled it up with all the coax cables for the block. Steam games worked fine. Ubisoft games wouldn't have worked at all. Hell, I couldn't continue my single-player campaign in SC2.

It's a dumb system and I'm not about to reward the company for it.

[Kadayi]

I am not protesting! Merely saying that there are better games out there to spend my money on without useless drm.

So you're complaining about a game that in reality you have absolutely no interest in?

@Nalano

You should note that Ubi long ago removed the draconian DRM. AC2 is a pretty good game, you should pick it up. Also good to finally see you on the forums.

[Lukasz]

So you're complaining about a game that in reality you have absolutely no interest in?

not exactly on the game but on the drm. that's a difference. i would probably buy the game if not on release then on next sale but with the drm its no sale.
like im not gonna get ac2 either. something which i would love to play. but this kind of drm kills my enthusiasm and since i have many other games its not really a problem.