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  1. #41
    Obscure Node Baris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NecroKnight View Post
    Got any proof?
    What does that even mean?

  2. #42
    For big money like that you can get a decent escourt and ask for the full Girlfriend treatment. She'll go out to a restaurant and film with you, listen to. You sympathetically while you bitch about your shitty job and afterwards you can go home with her and have real sex with a real live woman.

  3. #43
    Network Hub GraveyardJimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobsLawnService View Post
    For big money like that you can get a decent escourt and ask for the full Girlfriend treatment. She'll go out to a restaurant and film with you, listen to. You sympathetically while you bitch about your shitty job and afterwards you can go home with her and have real sex with a real live woman.
    Pretty presumptuous to think that since someone has a virtual girlfriend they should be willing to put money into the sex trade.

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    The thing is...how is that any different? Really? Sure it is a "Real" Woman but its still entering into a fantasy that you know that isn't true, its still considered sad by people, and you still don't have any real things.

  5. #45
    Lesser Hivemind Node NecroKnight's Avatar
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    It's actual sex and sex is healthy. It's good againts stress, stimulates cardiovascular activity and reduces the risk of prostate cancer.

  6. #46
    Network Hub GraveyardJimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    The thing is...how is that any different? Really? Sure it is a "Real" Woman but its still entering into a fantasy that you know that isn't true, its still considered sad by people, and you still don't have any real things.
    In one situation a real woman, part of the sex trade and all the negative ramifications of it are involved.

    In the other there is no chance the woman is a victim, as they do not exist.

  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy View Post
    In one situation a real woman, part of the sex trade and all the negative ramifications of it are involved.
    My biggest issue with the parameters used to describe the negative qualities of the sex trade - namely, that the sex worker is exploited, forced to perform acts she does not want to do for the majority of her waking life and is sorely under-compensated in the bargain - can adroitly describe all wage workers, ever.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  8. #48
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    There's certainly a very dark side to the sex trade. There are still some reports about underage eastern European prostitutes around here.

    High-class escorts are usually another category entirely, though.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    My biggest issue with the parameters used to describe the negative qualities of the sex trade - namely, that the sex worker is exploited, forced to perform acts she does not want to do for the majority of her waking life and is sorely under-compensated in the bargain - can adroitly describe all wage workers, ever.
    It also annoys me that a lot of people think that women should have equal rights and be empowered except for the small matter of their own sexual empowerment and how they should choose to use that sexual empowerment. As soon as women choose to sell their sexuality they are considered to be dirty or victims.

  10. #50
    Network Hub GraveyardJimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobsLawnService View Post
    It also annoys me that a lot of people think that women should have equal rights and be empowered except for the small matter of their own sexual empowerment and how they should choose to use that sexual empowerment. As soon as women choose to sell their sexuality they are considered to be dirty or victims.
    I am sure you know that many women are forced into prostitution or smuggled for the sex trade. Many dont have a choice in the matter and its ignorant to suggest prostitution is the favoured career choice for the majority of prostitutes.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobsLawnService View Post
    It also annoys me that a lot of people think that women should have equal rights and be empowered except for the small matter of their own sexual empowerment and how they should choose to use that sexual empowerment. As soon as women choose to sell their sexuality they are considered to be dirty or victims.
    I still feel that the heart of the problem is still labor. If you're not being adequately compensated for your time, then it's exploitation. If your workplace is unsafe - because, for instance, it's extralegal and/or unregulated, it's exploitation. If you're under the legal age for work, it's exploitation.

    I know there's a dark side to the sex trade. I know that shipping women across the world for the purpose is horrible, but I also think that shipping construction workers on indentured-servant contracts to Abu Dhabi is horrible. I think locking women in the brothels is horrible, but I think locking sweatshop workers in on-site barracks is horrible. I think that underage prostitution is horrible, but I think all child labor is horrible. I think that the threat of STIs and violent Johns is horrible, but I think all threats of workplace injury is horrible.

    I think it's more the stigma of sex than the plight of exploitation that gets the attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy View Post
    its ignorant to suggest prostitution is the favoured career choice for the majority of prostitutes.
    I'm sure working in a call center was the favored career choice for marketing drones. Hardly anybody does what they want to do.
    Last edited by Nalano; 01-08-2011 at 04:58 PM.
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  12. #52
    Network Hub GraveyardJimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I'm sure working in a call center was the favored career choice for marketing drones. Hardly anybody does what they want to do.
    Selling labour is at least slightly different to selling your body.

    Btw, I broadly agree with you, in that the economic system dictates peoples lives and exploitation of workers is a huge issue.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy View Post
    Selling labour is at least slightly different to selling your body.
    Selling labor IS selling your body. It's the idea that you think sex is sacrosanct that's muddying the issue.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy View Post
    I am sure you know that many women are forced into prostitution or smuggled for the sex trade. Many dont have a choice in the matter and its ignorant to suggest prostitution is the favoured career choice for the majority of prostitutes.
    Here is where I ask you for proof to back you claim up, and then you ask me for my proof to back my claim up.

    I am going to circumvent all that by going back on topic and categorically state that my opinion on the matter that any social contact with a living breathing human far suppasses any simulated contact with a fake human being.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I actually think Japan is a little weird with that, its more shameful to be around an escort then to have these virtual girl things. I don't really know but maybe that might be a big reason why they decide to do that.

    Anyway once they get robots you get the sex as well, so technically there would be no difference between the two really.

  16. #56
    Network Hub GraveyardJimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Selling labor IS selling your body. It's the idea that you think sex is sacrosanct that's muddying the issue.
    Not, its not. Being forced into prostitution (79% of human trafficking is for prostitution) is not the same as selling labour as even a manual worker. Its not that sex is sacred, its that prostitution, when forced by others or drugs, is not sex, but rape.
    Last edited by GraveyardJimmy; 01-08-2011 at 05:18 PM. Reason: edited for clarity

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    The particular brand of puritanism which emerges in feminist circles on the subject of prostitution is rather disquieting and, of course, not at all beneficial to the women whose welfare they are ostensibly concerned for. It's much like the Catholic Church approach to combating AIDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy View Post
    prostitution ... is rape.
    Are you sure you don't want to lean any further overboard here?

    I think you'll find that prostitutes who've had the misfortune to be raped can readily distinguish between their clients and rapists.
    Last edited by Rii; 01-08-2011 at 05:22 PM.

  18. #58
    Network Hub GraveyardJimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    Are you sure you don't want to lean any further overboard?
    Ok, not in cases with full consent, but the majority of cases involve significant involvement of other people and coersion, be it trafficking, drugs, pimps, etc

  19. #59
    Sexual slavery is different from sex trafficking. The definition of sex trafficking is travel across international border for the purposes of the sex trade and not sexual slavery. Don't let facts get in the way of your agenda though.

    Oops this post is incorrect. I got it wrong.
    Last edited by BobsLawnService; 01-08-2011 at 05:23 PM.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy View Post
    Not, its not.
    Yes, it is. Ask the guy whose back goes out at 35 from heavy lifting if he didn't just base his career on selling his body.

    There's plenty of reasons why the sex industry is fraught with peril: Potential for violence. Indentured service contracts and de facto slavery caused by lack of government oversight. The over-representation of women in such an exploitative environment (a trait, consequently, shared by the textile industry). Sex, itself, is not one of them. It's labor, and labor is the act of doing something you don't want necessarily to do for money. The fact that the act in this case is sex does not change that.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

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