Let's pick-apart people's GOTYs :)

[gwathdring]

This is so true. Darkroot Forest/Basin (especially with the stereo sound mixing issue fixed with the latest patch) blew my mind. And that's not mentioning Anor Londo or Duke''s Archives...

I'm more than willing to keep at it for a while longer, but I'm also having issues within the tutorial mission. I'm perfectly comfortable with the "When you die, you got back to the last bonfire until you can get it right" shtick ... but I don't feel like the tutorial gives me a fair shot at trying out mechanics. Note, I'm not suggesting it's too lethal. Rather I don't think I get enough practice. After an admittedly small hour of play I still haven't successfully countered more than a few blows and I haven't found a location that allows me to hone the art in a meaningful way--let alone one without five minute of boring back-tracking. That's the real problem I found in my introduction to the game. I didn't mind doing the fights over again when I died. I minded the slow trudging through empty space. It's the problem I have in most games with this rough type of check-point system. Especially after the murderously difficult VVVVVV, I have a lot of trouble excusing poorly placed checkpointing. There was a game that challenged me without frustrating me--and I realize that Dark Souls is a more slow and brooding game by nature as well as that I haven't played NEARLY enough to pass judgement on the game yet ... but my first impression is that the game leans a little too much towards obscurity and sadism--it could be just as difficult, complex and rewarding while also being more accessible. Tutorials are hard to design properly though, and plenty of people have enjoyed the game as is. And I want to keep slogging until I hit the meat of the game--I'm digging back into it tomorrow, hopefully for a good 3 hours. But a practice mode or else a checkpoint mere paces from a room full of deadly enemies would have done a lot to make the game feel more inviting.

[gundato]

I'm more than willing to keep at it for a while longer, but I'm also having issues within the tutorial mission. I'm perfectly comfortable with the "When you die, you got back to the last bonfire until you can get it right" shtick ... but I don't feel like the tutorial gives me a fair shot at trying out mechanics. Note, I'm not suggesting it's too lethal. Rather I don't think I get enough practice. After an admittedly small hour of play I still haven't successfully countered more than a few blows and I haven't found a location that allows me to hone the art in a meaningful way--let alone one without five minute of boring back-tracking. That's the real problem I found in my introduction to the game. I didn't mind doing the fights over again when I died. I minded the slow trudging through empty space. It's the problem I have in most games with this rough type of check-point system. Especially after the murderously difficult VVVVVV, I have a lot of trouble excusing poorly placed checkpointing. There was a game that challenged me without frustrating me--and I realize that Dark Souls is a more slow and brooding game by nature as well as that I haven't played NEARLY enough to pass judgement on the game yet ... but my first impression is that the game leans a little too much towards obscurity and sadism--it could be just as difficult, complex and rewarding while also being more accessible. Tutorials are hard to design properly though, and plenty of people have enjoyed the game as is. And I want to keep slogging until I hit the meat of the game--I'm digging back into it tomorrow, hopefully for a good 3 hours. But a practice mode or else a checkpoint mere paces from a room full of deadly enemies would have done a lot to make the game feel more inviting.

Undead Parish is probably the best place to practice parrying. The Baldur Knights are VERY good training partners because they are relatively fast, but are also large so you can see what you are doing.

All you hae to learn from the tutorial is "Block". That is really it. Everything else is advanced. As far as parrying goes: There is basically one boss where you REALLY want it. For the rest, it is just a way to look like a badass or to survive PvP. 99% of the time your tactic should be "Block, and circle strafe until you get an opening". And that should be second nature for anyone who has ever gamed before.

And they actually get checkpointing better than most games (a LOT better than Demon Souls :p). Yes, there might only be one (or even no) bonfires in an area. But as you progress, you'll unlock shortcuts that you can use to avoid the trudge.

The Painted World of Aramis is a good example. THere is one bonfire in the entire area. At first, you have a relatively long trudge against a bunch of mooks. If you are careful, you should be okay. And you'll unlock a shortcut back to that bonfire. Next, you have a short area with a decent amount of strong enemies (God damned Harpies...). And then you unlock the final shortcut that leads to the area boss. You only ever have one bonfire the entire time, but it works perfectly for all three "phases" of the level.

[gwathdring]

Undead Parish is probably the best place to practice parrying. The Baldur Knights are VERY good training partners because they are relatively fast, but are also large so you can see what you are doing.

All you hae to learn from the tutorial is "Block". That is really it. Everything else is advanced. As far as parrying goes: There is basically one boss where you REALLY want it. For the rest, it is just a way to look like a badass or to survive PvP. 99% of the time your tactic should be "Block, and circle strafe until you get an opening". And that should be second nature for anyone who has ever gamed before.

And they actually get checkpointing better than most games (a LOT better than Demon Souls :p). Yes, there might only be one (or even no) bonfires in an area. But as you progress, you'll unlock shortcuts that you can use to avoid the trudge.

The Painted World of Aramis is a good example. THere is one bonfire in the entire area. At first, you have a relatively long trudge against a bunch of mooks. If you are careful, you should be okay. And you'll unlock a shortcut back to that bonfire. Next, you have a short area with a decent amount of strong enemies (God damned Harpies...). And then you unlock the final shortcut that leads to the area boss. You only ever have one bonfire the entire time, but it works perfectly for all three "phases" of the level.

This is encouraging. :) Thanks.

I still feel like making the tutorial section more immediately lethal would be nice. It's one thing to have to trudge in the game proper and another entirely when you still don't quite know what you're doing with the basic controls.

Also, the game certainly doesn't present parrying as an "advanced" technique. It's right there on the ground during the tutorial next to an enemy with a shield that hits hard (one or two hits for a kill). I suppose it's not on the "main" path, as it's off to the side from where you learn about leaping down on enemies from above, but it's not at all hidden and it certainly seems to me like the game wants me to know how to parry before I leave the tutorial. I guess it makes a little more sense that I'm given no robust and comfortable way to practice parrying if it is, as you say, an advanced and rarely necessary skill in practice ... but the game does a damn awful job presenting that notion to me so I ended up getting a bit frustrated at the lack of practice and deciding to come back to the game later (sometime today, presumably).

[gundato]

This is encouraging. :) Thanks.

I still feel like making the tutorial section more immediately lethal would be nice. It's one thing to have to trudge in the game proper and another entirely when you still don't quite know what you're doing with the basic controls.

Also, the game certainly doesn't present parrying as an "advanced" technique. It's right there on the ground during the tutorial next to an enemy with a shield that hits hard (one or two hits for a kill). I suppose it's not on the "main" path, as it's off to the side from where you learn about leaping down on enemies from above, but it's not at all hidden and it certainly seems to me like the game wants me to know how to parry before I leave the tutorial. I guess it makes a little more sense that I'm given no robust and comfortable way to practice parrying if it is, as you say, an advanced and rarely necessary skill in practice ... but the game does a damn awful job presenting that notion to me so I ended up getting a bit frustrated at the lack of practice and deciding to come back to the game later (sometime today, presumably).

It gives you all the tools, and then sends you off. For some people, that is like getting a nice tool set for x-mas. For others, it is like giving them power tools and saying "Try not to cut off a finger"

You'll spend the first half of the game or so learning how to play, and the second half just having fun and trying to apply those lessons. It is truly an experience that I have only ever seen in one other game: God Hand. Yeah, Demon Souls was fun, but it got too dicky at times and had serious balance and pacing issues.

The problem a lot of people have is that they go in used to games that hold their hands. They are used to "Oh, that is a new technique, I need to master it" or "I need a glowing circle to tell me where to go". That isn't this kind of game. This is the kind of game where an NPC might, in passing, say where you need to go. ANd if you weren't paying attention, you better go check a game progress guide as to where to head next. Especially once you get to the point where you truly CAN go in any direction with no real difficulties.