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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digirob10 View Post
    what makes dune so good>
    It was incredibly influential. Sure, you can say it has shortcomings, but it was the first game of its kind and it would be hard to get everything right the first time, don't you think ? Base building, resource gathering, unit production, upgrades, turrets - Dune II had it all. Even infantry squads as single units instead of individuals. The game influenced Command&Conquer and Warcraft.

    Another forgotten game is Dark Colony. A fast paced, futuristic RTS which influenced Starcraft.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbQfiLXtM7U
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  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Dune 2 also made you scared of weirdly shifting sand pixels.

  3. #23
    Lesser Hivemind Node internetonsetadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    Dune 2 also made you scared of weirdly shifting sand pixels.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Stilgar, do we have wormsign?

  5. #25
    Network Hub KwisatzHaderach's Avatar
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    For every one who can be bothered: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawik...itle=Main_Page
    This is a modernized version, with better controls, increased resolution and MP support.

    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    It was incredibly influential. Sure, you can say it has shortcomings, but it was the first game of its kind and it would be hard to get everything right the first time, don't you think ? Base building, resource gathering, unit production, upgrades, turrets - Dune II had it all. Even infantry squads as single units instead of individuals. The game influenced Command&Conquer and Warcraft.

    Another forgotten game is Dark Colony. A fast paced, futuristic RTS which influenced Starcraft.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbQfiLXtM7U
    Oh, don't forget it even had space ports to order a bunch of vehicles all at once!


    Quote Originally Posted by internetonsetadd View Post
    This is god appearing in the skies to bring down his wisdom on the worms that is humanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Stilgar, do we have wormsign?
    It is a big one. Deep from the desert.
    Last edited by KwisatzHaderach; 01-01-2013 at 09:25 AM.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    It was incredibly influential.
    + three different factions, each with a handful of individual buildings and units.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call them 3 factions, because the differences are marginal. The 2 useful units are available to all. Basically, Dune II spawned a new genre. That's why it was important. Starcraft was the first game with factions that play differently.

    From there, the genre diverged. In Dune II, production buildings were actually completely separate from each other. Warcraft kept that, Command&Conquer sacrificed this for a very convenient interface - you can issue production and construction orders at any time. Warcraft kept the micromanagement, in fact it made it more time-consuming with introduction of workers. C&C further reduced micromanagement by adding rectangle selection.

    As for starport, yes that was interesting. My favorite are: Carryalls will automatically transport badly damaged vehicles to repair facility. It's very nice, and would be awesome if they transported them back.
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  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    I loved the starport and never understood how some people didn't get the idea. I've seen videos where people say the prices are always higher so it's not worth it, yet they aren't, they vary - it's part of the point of the place in that it offers a (black) market. The starport was better than a Steam sale sometimes - you'd find harvesters for 1/4 the price and could stock up, or get lucky when in a beleagured position and have 10 1/3-price combat tanks roll off a transporter just as your base comes under attack.

    Also, as I won't be satisfied until someone here goes and plays it, Emperor: BfD made the three sides much more distinct and there was also the factions feature which could see you gain access to four out of a total of ten exotic units, diversifying things further.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    I believe I got rocket launchers and carryalls at 200ish.

    I like starport, because it's an interesting strategic alternative to building your own facilities. I may opt for extra refineries and defences early on, and starport fits right in. It gives me a jump start, but becomes a problem when stocks dry up. They refresh very slowly in Dune II, I think it was faster in Dune2K and Emperor. Starport also allows you to order a bunch of units very quickly, if you don't mind that some prices are not going to be perfect. It's just fun from strategic point of view, and an unique way to get units.

    Emperor was a failed experiment, unfortunately. Bad balance, minotaurs get out of control if you don't pressure the Attreides player. Harkonnens were supposed to get biggest firepower, but devastators were insultingly slow, tanks HUGE and short ranged (with a fixed turret), rocket launchers short-ranged and requiring a lot of micromanagement.
    Of optional allies, only the Guild(tanks) and Fremen were any good. Sardaukar were slow to train and overpriced, and more of a solution looking for a problem, really. Tleilax units were both pathetic. Leeches had big troubles hitting moving targets and were notoriously unreliable. Zombies were ok against the most basic infantry and nothing else. As of Ix, they were a one trick pony.

    But the most frustrating thing was probably bases getting clogged and traffic jams. Somehow, despite limited rock space, bases in Dune II are easier to manage and move units around. I hated these traffic jams with passion.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Warcraft kept the micromanagement, in fact it made it more time-consuming with introduction of workers. C&C further reduced micromanagement by adding rectangle selection.
    It was possible to select up to four units in Warcraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    Also, as I won't be satisfied until someone here goes and plays it, Emperor: BfD made the three sides much more distinct and there was also the factions feature which could see you gain access to four out of a total of ten exotic units, diversifying things further.
    Okay, I'll play it. Where is it available for sale?

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Therein lies the problem. From what I can see there are no new retail versions available, just ebay and marketplace 'new' and the usual second-hand stuff. No digital distribution either, it has about 1500 votes at GOG on the wishlist but that is a comparitively small number and the list doesn't mean much anyway.
    Considering it came out in 2001 and most people at EA probably don't remember it, one might suggest it to be entirely acceptable to acquire the game by other means. Head down the 'Bay, as the cool kids say.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    As for starport, yes that was interesting. My favorite are: Carryalls will automatically transport badly damaged vehicles to repair facility. It's very nice, and would be awesome if they transported them back.
    Oh, yes. The Starport is a great alternative to factories, honestly. I don't need to wait too long for multiple units while I'm building one by one for a much longer time. But I do tend to spend vast amounts cash, so most of my credits ran out with the game saying "insufficient funds!" all the time.
    Art blog here.

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  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    I wouldn't call them 3 factions, because the differences are marginal. The 2 useful units are available to all.
    You apparently underestimate the usefulness of a Harkonnen devastator sent right into the enemy base. ;)
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  14. #34
    Network Hub KwisatzHaderach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    You apparently underestimate the usefulness of a Harkonnen devastator sent right into the enemy base. ;)
    I can't remember anymore how effective the devestators self-destruct was in the original, but in Dune 2000 it was crazy effective against buildings. Good fun directing an army of devastators into enemy base only to blow them up!

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    I wouldn't call them 3 factions, because the differences are marginal. The 2 useful units are available to all.
    That's like saying the black and white players in chess are no different because they all have the same pieces. We all know the black player commands the forces of evil.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    That's like saying the black and white players in chess are no different because they all have the same pieces. We all know the black player commands the forces of evil.
    Until there is a strange storyline twist revealing that the black player was the good guy all the time!
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    You apparently underestimate the usefulness of a Harkonnen devastator sent right into the enemy base. ;)
    That is if they manage to avoid from getting eaten by worms, of course :)
    Art blog here.

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  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    You apparently underestimate the usefulness of a Harkonnen devastator sent right into the enemy base. ;)
    Right past rocket turrets ? Eww. I've found that the most efficient way to conquer bases is tanks with 3 rocket launchers for turrets... and just about any other building. And it saves clicking. Even regular gun turrets will ruin your day, because enemy bases are peppered with them.
    Devastator into base is better in Emperor, where you can order a carryall to transport one. But that makes an already extremely expensive unit more expensive.

    Westwood never seemed to care very much about balance, they saw units and structures as progression line. Command&Conquer 1 had some laughable stuff like light infantry for 100 and Nod Buggy for 200 (which kills at least 2 light infantry, and moves order of magnitude faster). Basically no reason to use infantry. And it got worse. Rocket soldiers were 300 per unit, and you needed several to destroy one light tank (600). And that's not counting instakill by squishing.
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  19. #39
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    This brings back a lot of memories. I remember going to my dad's computer store when I was 11 or 12 and he had a surprise for me. My own 386 computer to put in my room, equipped with a 14.4 modem. He had a game to show me that was on it...Dune 2. I was blown away. I couldn't believe how cool this game was. Building my own base the way I wanted to, hiring and commanding little men and vehicles, an intriguing setting (I had no understanding that Dune was from a book and/or movie), what more could I want?

    I would daydream in class about getting home and playing Dune. I never did finish the Ordos campaign. I believe I was stuck around the fifth or so mission. I wouldn't underestimate the "differences" between the factions, if I recall correctly there were some key differences in the top tier units. I know the sonic tank was extremely useful.

    Does the game have awful controls by modern standards? Yes. Does the game look and sound primitive? Yes. But I couldn't have fonder memories. This game helped spawn my love of RTS games.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    I disagree about sound. At least music is still very good. It's composed well. I can tell, because I haven't played enough Dune II back then to remember it. I like it now. Dune 2000 music is quite similar, but "epic" all across the board, and I find it tiring in the long run. Speaking of music in video games, I really think Red Alert 1 deserved that "game music of the year" award. It's varied, doesn't wear on you, and high quality in general.

    I like the artwork very much. It's colorful and cartoony without being warcrafty. A while ago you could use the 2 terms interchangeably. http://duneii.com/buildings/

    Okay, so I tried to use Devastators and found them a letdown. I'd expect more for 800 !! They have trouble facing rocket turrets head on, without walls in the way. For the price I can have 2 rocket launchers, which will beat the crap out of any buildings... although you may want more than 2 for turrets, it can take forever to kill them with just 2 launchers.

    One intriguing thing about the Starport Facility is that it counters the rule "you should never have many resources lying around. The rule, popular especially among Starcraft players, says that resources not currently used are a wasted opportunity. If you have spare resources, it means your build is not optimized. Not enough production facilities.
    Last edited by b0rsuk; 01-01-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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