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  1. #1
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    Why does Counter Strike suck so much now?

    I wanted to play 1.6 because it is the game I used to love and the server browser says so many servers are full and yet when I try to join a server even though the info says they have people, I join and they're empty. Like wtf is going on? happened 6 servers in a row and I've just given up. Another bad thing is most have mods you have to download or aren't the original version, why isn't there a filter? Valve have just let the game die. Counter Strike doesn't have like 60,000 concurrent players at all, I bet it just counts all these lying bastard servers that say they have 30/32 players when they don't.

    Source sucks, always has done, it's a game for noobs.

    CS:GO I'm sat there waiting for ages to find a competitive game, the menu option for it is so hidden I'm not surprised why no one plays it. That was the best thing about CS:GO, being able to easily have 5 v 5 competitive games and now that mode is dead thanx to Valve. Their menu design is so shit these days, I mean that new video settings menu is so bad, you cannot tell what is the highest setting until you scroll round on each one... who designed it like that? Just have far left and far right or the old drop down boxes ffs! I didn't really wanna play the game anyways If I'm honest, the new maps are shit, the new mods are shit mods I used to hate for the original and there is a dumb graphics filter you cannot turn off and too much fog and annoying tracers.


    What have Valve done to the series? It is a mess.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    While it's fair to criticize the new outings in whatever way suits your fancy, blaming valve for just letting a twelve year old game die is a bit much. Valve is one of the better companies in the industry when it comes to supporting multiplayer games for a long period of time and they simply don't have control over the evolution of the game when it comes to users prefering mods and variants. The misreported server populations seems like a huge problem though. I've encountered that in a number of older games--probably comes from lower moderation and users having had so much time to crack server safeguards. And if you want people to join an empty server, the best way is to tell them it's not empty! Unless of course every other empty server does that .... BF2 has a lot of these servers in my experience. It's a shame.

    But communities change. A large number of players get bored of playing the same game indefinitely. They end up trying new things, making mods, changing the rules, exploiting bugs or leaving the game. It happens, and it's unrealistic to blame Valve for it.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  3. #3
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    They support their games, Counter Strike still sells, surely they could update the server browser? Not much to ask, especially when CS:GO and CS:S turned out to be so bad, though the horrible Source engine is to blame for a lot of it, never have a good netcode. The only reason CS 1.6 probably turned out to be so good is it's based on the Quake 2 engine and John Carmack engines always seem to have an amazing netcode.


    I finally got into as game but was kicked because apparently you have to be a forum member to a certain site? Thought forget it and uninstalled, not worth fighting to try and play the game lol. Such a shame.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    I don't know. It sounds like more of a community issue than a server browser issue. If people are hacking false numbers into the browser, forming exclusive servers dependent on forum membership, playing mods and variants etc .... the game sounds to be dying with or without any additional technical support from Valve. I doubt it would be easy for them to fix much of what you're describing ... and even if they could, they have newer games with higher server populations that demand their attention. 12 years is a long time in this industry. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is.

    Personally I liked CS:Source. 1.6 felt more floaty. It felt faster without feeling either more precise or more arcade-like. I don't remember having an unusual number of network related issues on CS:Source, but perhaps I just never turned up the graphics settings high enough, had an unusually stable internet connection or wasn't good at the game enough to notice. What did you like about 1.6 over CS:Source other than it being, in your words, for n00bs--a rather uninteresting and uninformative criticism.

    P.S. Additionally, if only one game in the series is any good, it's hardly the series that's been brutalized by the company--the "good" series never even existed in your estimation. Just a good game with a bunch of crappy and uninteresting sequels. There's no long-running brand quality to be squandered by the series. It's a shame that good game is dying for you, though.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 31-12-2012 at 06:23 AM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TixyLixx View Post
    ...though the horrible Source engine is to blame for a lot of it, never have a good netcode.
    Left 4 Dead 1/2, Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2 seem fine to me :-/

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice-Fyre View Post
    Left 4 Dead 1/2, Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2 seem fine to me :-/
    Portal 2 seemed a bit dodgy in the network department to me ... but my co-op buddy was using the Mac version so perhaps it was a more platform (or cross-platform) specific issue.

    But I haven't had any other problems getting the Source engine online.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice-Fyre View Post
    Left 4 Dead 1/2, Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2 seem fine to me :-/
    How many times I've died once I've already run round a corner because to the server my hitbox is back 2m. Happens with DICE games too, god they have horrible hit detection and Planetside 2 especially.

    Weird cause games like Quake 3 or UT never had that issue.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    What have Valve done to CS?

    They adopted it.

    Sorry you missed the boat.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  9. #9
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    In CS:GO people complained that folks were leaving competitive matches. So they patched in a function where you would be locked out of playing if you disconnected too often. Turning what had been a fun way to spend downtime into a high time cost mode.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TixyLixx View Post
    Source sucks, always has done, it's a game for noobs.
    Source was better. *sage nod*
    It had moar polygons, but ALSO moar fun.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  11. #11
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    Wait - CS was ever good?

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Wait - CS was ever good?

    Should this be surprising for all of us here ? I don't hink so..and yes Counter Strike 1.5/6 was GOOD,source was decent,all others are medicore.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Wait - CS was ever good?
    It was always Natural Selections stupid but popular brother, what can you do? People like shooting terrahists.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    It was always Natural Selections stupid but popular brother, what can you do? People like shooting terrahists.
    NS might be the best team fps game out there by a mile, and one of the best games ever made, but the gunplay is abysmal compared to that of CS 1.x. (thankfully ns is not about gunplay)

    People still play cs after all these years because the gunplay is more satisfying (and more consistent) than in all the call of duties , medal of honors, battlefields and source mods and games combined.

    If people wanted the sad power fantasy and shooting terrarists they could have swapped to all the clones that have failed (SOFII etc) , but they didn't. Your average cs player won't care for call of duty either (the ultimate fuck yer amuhrica power fantasy).

    @ never like anything new :
    This is also why many cs players don't like source (or go) , the consistency and feedback just isn't there in the spread and hit detection or animations.
    GO was a better attempt than css but the sound aspect of CS is completely missing in CS:GO so it's all in vein.

    CS players don't like the newer iterations because they didn't capture what cs was about, in the same way that racing fans don't like NFS:Shift for completely missing the point of a racing 'sim', or people hating the new tombchartederraider because it also completely misses what people liked about tomb raider 1-3.

    In case you all weren't aware: cs went through drastic changes and adjustments with each single patch since it was in beta, the community loved the game all the same. The gunplay, sound, netcode etc stayed intact which is what people played the game for.

    The whole 'don't like new or don't like change' notion is absurd and could only come from the mouths of people who never really played cs until steam was released.
    Last edited by Finicky; 02-01-2013 at 01:45 AM.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    The whole 'don't like new or don't like change' notion is absurd and could only come from the mouths of people who never really played cs until steam was released.
    Actually, you kinda proved them right: Hardcore CS players didn't want anything that changed what they perceived as the important bits in the game. I mean, sounds? Really? Sounds?

    And "lowest ping wins" netcode. Yay! Let's stay in the 90s forever.

    Ahem.

    It does kinda sound like MMO players who long for the time when their preferred class was overpowered and not two patches later when they were nerfed and a new dynamic introduced.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Actually, you kinda proved them right: Hardcore CS players didn't want anything that changed what they perceived as the important bits in the game. I mean, sounds? Really? Sounds?
    Where did hardcore come from?

    Also, it's a bit stupid to say "players who liked the game for certain features didn't want the features they liked changed" as if it's some profound insight. Duh.

    And "lowest ping wins" netcode. Yay! Let's stay in the 90s forever.
    What the fuck is this? I played CS with significant latency (first on dial up, latterly on ISDN, and finally on cable) and it always handled differing latencies far better than any other competitive online game I played - and I played a shitload.


    It does kinda sound like MMO players who long for the time when their preferred class was overpowered and not two patches later when they were nerfed and a new dynamic introduced.
    So a huge group of players who liked the core gameplay of a game and didn't like when this was changed significantly for no apparent reason other than "why not", sound like MMO players who long for a time when their particularly class was overpowered?

    Yeah, your comparison is a bit...farfetched.

    Also, I loved the NS beta but found that with each significant patch the game became less fun. Which was a shame, NS got me into using voice comms and convinced me to start playing MMOs.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Actually, you kinda proved them right: Hardcore CS players didn't want anything that changed what they perceived as the important bits in the game. I mean, sounds? Really? Sounds?

    And "lowest ping wins" netcode. Yay! Let's stay in the 90s forever.

    Ahem.

    It does kinda sound like MMO players who long for the time when their preferred class was overpowered and not two patches later when they were nerfed and a new dynamic introduced.
    You should really stop posting about games you haven't played... if you don't understand what the sound comment means. I'm not going to dignify you by spelling it out. Find our for yourself if you are interested, else stop trolling.
    That whole post is so full of 'I have no idea what I'm talking about' stupidity I don't even know where to begin. Now I know how my mum felt every time she uttered the words 'you'll understand when you are older' when I was a wee lad.

    'lowest ping wings netcode' is the most asinine combination of words I've heard all week.
    There is a dutch saying for what I'm feeling now , it's called 'plaatsvervangende schaamte'.

    I guess I should feel sorry for you that you play games for all these years and have never been able to appreciate or discover what makes an fps good.
    I guess trying to explain would be like explaining to a 6 year old nephew that he shouldn't eat half a bag of candy 30 mins before bed time.
    They won't listen or understand anyhow. You'll watch them stuff their face in glee as you just shake your head.
    I really wish my English was better, it's hard to express an appropriately large amount of condescension compared to the amount of ignorant stupidity in your last post. I tried, but it isn't enough.
    Last edited by Finicky; 03-01-2013 at 05:26 AM.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    e NFS:Shift for completely missing the point of a racing 'sim',
    I think those who wanted NFS: Shift to be a sim were the ones missing the point, really there is other stuff on the market that is far more simmy, NFS is just a game that's meant to feel reasonably real (when it's not) and make you feel like the boss who can go round corners fast.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    I think those who wanted NFS: Shift to be a sim were the ones missing the point, really there is other stuff on the market that is far more simmy, NFS is just a game that's meant to feel reasonably real (when it's not) and make you feel like the boss who can go round corners fast.
    It was marketed as a sim, and marketed against sim light games like gran turismo and forza.
    Point is they didn't get it, neither does valve with anything CS related. You can't sit there with a straight face and pretend valve knows how to do counter strike when you can't even discern the footstep sounds.

    Forget the whole feedback and it enabling being on the razor's edge with timing shots or the consistency of the shooting when they show they really don't understand the basics of what the game was about to its fans.

    Everyone in the world wants half life 3, but if valve leaves out the things people enjoy about half life gameplay (e.g turn it into half cod 3) then the community would spit that out too.
    And i'm sure some 12 year old idiot in the year 2020 when half life 3 comes out would say he loves half cod 3 and that all the old fans are whiners with nostalgia goggles stuck in the past.
    And then his mom tells him it's past his bed time and life goes on and people continue to enjoy half life 1-2.
    Last edited by Finicky; 03-01-2013 at 01:55 AM.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Wait - CS was ever good?
    It's basically the gaming equivalent of football. And yes, it is really good. I personally do love the gunplay and how it rewards both tactics (flanking and when to use grenades, as well as the importance of footstep sounds, or not making any footstep sounds by holding down shift at the cost of the other side potentionally fortifying their position) and accurate aiming, and above all else keeping a level head. The continious tradeoff between more bullets and more accurate fire, etc.

    It is quite different from the other shooters in the market, in the same way as Starcraft and Age of Empires are quite different from each other, whilst looking the same at first glance.

    A lot of oldschool fans would have liked an engine update and some new 'official' maps and especially some new weapons while keeping what was good intact likepunishing recoil, uncontrollable spread, extremely low randomness factor compared to every other shooter (this is one of the main things that made cs maintain it's own audience)
    This is basically what GO is.
    From my understanding, all the guns in 1.6 have pre-set recoil patterns (as do the guns from GO, as it was a requested feature from the 1.6 fans), so spread can actually be controlled - Source had semi-random spray patterns, which is why some people hated it, as it added to the randomness factor. Both 1.6 and source did have some strange kinks in their weapon values that were never ironed out untill 2011 (for source, 1.6 was unchanged).

    I think the main problem holding back GO these days is not that it is worse then 1.6 or Source (because it is not, I daresay it is better then both). It's that most people who are interested in CS have 1.6 or source already, and there is not really a reason to buy GO if you already have either game. Which is fair enough, as GO is basically mechanical updates. It hardly offers any new content.
    Last edited by Grizzly; 03-01-2013 at 11:49 AM.

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