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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    I can't think of any involved management sims that are also involved strategic wargames.

    The reason for this, I suspect, is that for the difficulty it would take to get an economy going in order to field an army, the likelihood of achieving a balanced battle is slim to none and the frustration of watching your hours and hours of work destroyed after a failed skirmish - in an inevitable cascade failure that would likely take another few hours to fully play through - would be horrible.
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  2. #22
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    Technically every classic RTS matchup ever is Assault vs. Economy.

    A clear example of this would be, say, 5-pool versus 12-hatch ZvZ.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I can't think of any involved management sims that are also involved strategic wargames.

    The reason for this, I suspect, is that for the difficulty it would take to get an economy going in order to field an army, the likelihood of achieving a balanced battle is slim to none and the frustration of watching your hours and hours of work destroyed after a failed skirmish - in an inevitable cascade failure that would likely take another few hours to fully play through - would be horrible.
    I generally disagree with Nalano but he is right here. Yet another example of why multiplayer ruins creativity.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I never suggested stacked simulations. It could be as arcade as you like. I just mean that say in settlers you plump down wood cutters, wouldn't it be good if the rpg vs rts genre wasn't purely combat focused.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    I never suggested stacked simulations. It could be as arcade as you like. I just mean that say in settlers you plump down wood cutters, wouldn't it be good if the rpg vs rts genre wasn't purely combat focused.
    Good for who?

  6. #26
    good for me!

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoLAoS View Post
    Good for who?
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  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    I never suggested stacked simulations. It could be as arcade as you like. I just mean that say in settlers you plump down wood cutters, wouldn't it be good if the rpg vs rts genre wasn't purely combat focused.
    Settlers combat works purely on an economic model heavily supported by extremely restrictive maps and built-in rules about noncombatants because anybody worth their salt would immediately use a tiny raiding force to hamstring your economy rather than meet you head-on.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Settlers combat works purely on an economic model heavily supported by extremely restrictive maps and built-in rules about noncombatants because anybody worth their salt would immediately use a tiny raiding force to hamstring your economy rather than meet you head-on.
    Remember I'm not suggesting symmetrical play, one guy with a town, the other with a rogue/knight, or one with a Kingdom, the other a dragon.

    Citizen Kabuto did a little of this too. 2 sides build bases the Kabuto grows and has babies who follow him about.
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  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Remember I'm not suggesting symmetrical play, one guy with a town, the other with a rogue/knight, or one with a Kingdom, the other a dragon.
    One guy builds a sandcastle, the other kicks it in and takes the first one's girlfriend.
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  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    One guy builds a sandcastle, the other kicks it in and takes the first one's girlfriend.
    Tell me if you need a moment to reflect.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Tell me if you need a moment to reflect.
    Where are the sandcastles of yesteryear?

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Idea came up while playing Tropico 3 back to back with Just Cause 2. It dawned on me I was playing 2 orphaned halves of an awesome game.

    One player is building a town/base/dungeon the other is desperately seeking their death.

    Dungeon Keeper 2 had elements of this, but can anyone suggest any others?
    I'm afraid these games are notoriously hard to find. Asymetric boardgames are fairly easy to find, but games ? Forget it ! RTS fans have a knee-jerk reaction to anything less symmetric than a tennis court.

    Natural Selection 2 partially fits. Most players are grunts with FPP view, one or more have topdown view and manage economy and radar.
    Last edited by b0rsuk; 02-01-2013 at 06:43 PM.
    pass

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoLAoS View Post
    Yet another example of why multiplayer ruins creativity.
    I'm not generally fond of generalities of most any sort. DOTA is an enormously creative game, bursting with interesting mechanics, and leaving scope for players and teams to come up with some very imaginative strategies.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by arathain View Post
    I'm not generally fond of generalities of most any sort. DOTA is an enormously creative game, bursting with interesting mechanics, and leaving scope for players and teams to come up with some very imaginative strategies.
    But we aren't talking about MOBAs are we?

  16. #36
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    So where do you think multiplayer ruins creativity?

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    http://www.moddb.com/mods/overwatch

    Is that relevant at all?

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    http://www.moddb.com/mods/overwatch

    Is that relevant at all?
    Much economy? I'll have to try it out.
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  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Sounds like the perfect idea would be throwing a Total War game* and Dynasty Warriors (so we're dealing with 1vs1000) into a blender together. I see it either as a game where you build an empire and have some hero units who you control in fights in a giant clusterfuck, Viking: BfA way, or you have a multiplayer game where one player starts off with the big, eeeevil empire all built and the other plays a plucky hero trying to bring it down. The empire player has to try to hold the hero off or defeat them through laying strategic traps, turning the commoners against them, killing their friends/helpers, infiltrating the heros party etc; while the hero player is on more of an RPG quest - levelling up, recruiting folk, inspiring loyalty and getting more powerful through liberating territories. You could even include a gameplay switch where the roles are changed once the hero player has >50% of the territory.

    Impossible dreams though.

    *King Arthur is also a contender, as that has a Hero system in place. Think: Red Cliff - the John Woo movie.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arathain View Post
    I'm not generally fond of generalities of most any sort. DOTA is an enormously creative game, bursting with interesting mechanics, and leaving scope for players and teams to come up with some very imaginative strategies.
    In the sense that making life difficult for the designers in charge of balancing the game is a creative endeavor.

    If that's the case, then forum trolling should warrant a federal arts grant.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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