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  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    There are advantages for both approaches. Looking at how much more expensive a PC is compared to any console, it kind of hurts that we don't really get "anything" for it. And one can easily argue that this lack of new tech is one of the causes of so many "samey" feeling games
    Well, I don't know if the lack of new tech really applies here, because we are getting "different" games from both the AAA and indie sectors lately without massive jumps. They're few and far between though because I think everyone is adverse to risk. Even in the indie sector a lot of devs are playing it safe, watching what works and trying to cash in on it. "Oh hey Limbo is a shadow puppet platformer, let's make a platformer, people like that, right?" Though I guess I'm also including things like XCOM which are relics of the past brought back in a time when they're not widely popular game types. But since everyone (indies included) seem to be remaking the 90s I guess it doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    We have the capacity, but we aren't. At most, we get a bit nicer resolution and a higher FPS which isn't too noticeable in the grand scheme of things. And anyone who DOES push the envelope gets their game branded a "tech demo".
    Oh I'd argue that 1080p makes a big difference. I can't play my 360 at 720p. It looks like a blurry mess. Also I'm one of those people who don't like game framerates below 30. The PC being able to push 1080p at 60fps is a big improvement. Yes, games that push get labelled a tech demo. But Crytek know that Crysis is a benchmarking tool, and it was basically Far Cry except with the US, DPRK, and aliens instead of Hawaiian shirt guy, mercs, and biohorrorterrors.

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Not at all. Apple upgrades VERY regularly and has little to no fragmentation. ... It is safe to assume that Ouya would be controlling the OS to at least ensure that every Ouya has the same version available (to whatever extent they can).
    But if they're releasing to take advantage of higher end hardware, doesn't that preclude running it on the lower end hardware? Or if not preclude, then make the experience inferior? It seems to me that they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. I'm guessing they're going to make some compromises to keep things backwards compatible, which makes me wonder if it's worth the effort.

    I also question it given that we don't even know if the Ouya will really find a decent market. Devs saying they'll support X before X or their game is released is all well and good, but if nobody can find a use for it then they're wasting their time figuring out an upgrade cycle like this. Again it seems like a vote of no confidence in their release in some ways, like they know that people will put it on the shelf like a neglected Nintendo Wii, unless they can convince people to keep buying a new one because hey new stuff!

  2. #82
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Well, I don't know if the lack of new tech really applies here, because we are getting "different" games from both the AAA and indie sectors lately without massive jumps. They're few and far between though because I think everyone is adverse to risk. Even in the indie sector a lot of devs are playing it safe, watching what works and trying to cash in on it. "Oh hey Limbo is a shadow puppet platformer, let's make a platformer, people like that, right?" Though I guess I'm also including things like XCOM which are relics of the past brought back in a time when they're not widely popular game types. But since everyone (indies included) seem to be remaking the 90s I guess it doesn't matter.
    Yeah, it is pretty pathetic that the closest thing we have to innovation is remaking old games...

    And I Don't think stagnating tech is the only limiting factor, but I do think it is a factor. Why push the envelope if 99% of your userbase can't play it? In the 90s, you could make a game that needed a new graphics card and still get a sizeable portion of the market. These days, if it can't run on an XBOX you might as well not bother.


    Oh I'd argue that 1080p makes a big difference. I can't play my 360 at 720p. It looks like a blurry mess. Also I'm one of those people who don't like game framerates below 30. The PC being able to push 1080p at 60fps is a big improvement. Yes, games that push get labelled a tech demo. But Crytek know that Crysis is a benchmarking tool, and it was basically Far Cry except with the US, DPRK, and aliens instead of Hawaiian shirt guy, mercs, and biohorrorterrors.
    You might be a special case, but I think it is safe to say that "most" gamers don't have that problem by virtue of the thriving console market.

    And Crysis was much more than just Far Cry all over again. The suit, while rather "weak", definitely was a game changer in a lot of ways. I would actually posit that it was one of the earlier "superhero" games.


    But if they're releasing to take advantage of higher end hardware, doesn't that preclude running it on the lower end hardware? Or if not preclude, then make the experience inferior? It seems to me that they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. I'm guessing they're going to make some compromises to keep things backwards compatible, which makes me wonder if it's worth the effort.
    No moreso than supporting multiple configurations of a PC. In fact, a LOT less.

    Logically, the variation year ot year won't be TOO huge. Every other year you might notice something big, but year to year would logically just be "a bit more powerful". So it is safe to say that a game made to target the 2014 model will work with the 2013 and probably the 2012, just maybe at lower quality. Eventually there will be a new model that is too powerful/devs who don't care, but by and large you still have the capacity to develop for "next-gen" without screwing over "current-gen".

    I also question it given that we don't even know if the Ouya will really find a decent market. Devs saying they'll support X before X or their game is released is all well and good, but if nobody can find a use for it then they're wasting their time figuring out an upgrade cycle like this. Again it seems like a vote of no confidence in their release in some ways, like they know that people will put it on the shelf like a neglected Nintendo Wii, unless they can convince people to keep buying a new one because hey new stuff!
    Well, I think the Ouya failing horribly has more to do with their target demographic and their idiotic insistence on Android than anything else. I am just saying that I think a yearly platform release might be a good thing (and Valve are probalby planning something similar with steamboxes).

    But, to go into the phone examples. Samsung most assuredly already has the Galaxy S4 design document somewhere. Does that mean they are doing a vote of no confidence on the S3? Not at all. They just understand that there are people who want "the latest technology". And there are people who still have S2s who said "Yeah, I'll wait for the next model" when the S3 came out.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinSmoth View Post
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...s-console-ever

    Well this looks interesting... Too bad that I don't have a screen with HDMI...

    What do you guys think?
    very interesting. looking forward to using this one.
    traditional gaming consoles are old ideas.

  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambing1 View Post
    traditional gaming consoles are old ideas.
    But, you can't kill an idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    But, you can't kill an idea.
    Also, they were pretty damned good ideas.
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  6. #86
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    In the 90s, you could make a game that needed a new graphics card and still get a sizeable portion of the market. These days, if it can't run on an XBOX you might as well not bother.
    Well I guess that might be partly because consoles are popular these days and devs can make more by targeting all the platforms, particularly when cross platform development is becoming easier to do these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    And Crysis was much more than just Far Cry all over again. The suit, while rather "weak", definitely was a game changer in a lot of ways
    Oh the suit did offer some new gameplay opportunities (even if cloak and armour were the only two worth really using) but by and large it was just Far Cry. The storyline was pretty much the same (save for the factions), the setting wasn't that much different, and the gameplay was more or less the same - approach outpost, play with the AI for a bit, then go home. And fight aliens in a linear sequence.

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    No moreso than supporting multiple configurations of a PC. In fact, a LOT less.
    Yeah but isn't that one of the benefits of consoles? That you don't have to account for all the configurations of a PC and all the overheads we have in trying to make that easier?

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    But, to go into the phone examples.
    Yeah, I was going to mention mobile phones but decided not to. And you're right. But are mobiles really like consoles in this respect?

  7. #87
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Well I guess that might be partly because consoles are popular these days and devs can make more by targeting all the platforms, particularly when cross platform development is becoming easier to do these days.
    Even if you aren't targeting an xbox release, think about it. Most of your customerbase have computers designed to run those games. Odds are a much smaller percentage have monster machines. So if your game can't be run on an xbox the best you can hope for is a swarm of people screaming "It won't run at 60 FPS without a supercomputer! YOU HATE PC GAMING!!". And before you think I am exagerating, check out the recent Crysis 3 thread on these very forums :p

    Oh the suit did offer some new gameplay opportunities (even if cloak and armour were the only two worth really using) but by and large it was just Far Cry. The storyline was pretty much the same (save for the factions), the setting wasn't that much different, and the gameplay was more or less the same - approach outpost, play with the AI for a bit, then go home. And fight aliens in a linear sequence.
    Well, Far Cry never really encouraged you to fight the mutants by simple virtue of making them so overwhelmingly powerful (why I dislike Far Cry).

    And that description basically applies to almost every single "open world" game. FC and Crysis were just some of the forerunners.


    Yeah but isn't that one of the benefits of consoles? That you don't have to account for all the configurations of a PC and all the overheads we have in trying to make that easier?
    Its a middle ground. You have multiple configurations to target, but they are all very well defined targets that you can "easily" benchmark. And, if we are talking yearly releases, you essentially have 2-4 targets at any given time (this year, last year, and maybe next year/two years ago). Comparable to any cross-platform title (with the added bonus of only having one codebase to maintain)


    Yeah, I was going to mention mobile phones but decided not to. And you're right. But are mobiles really like consoles in this respect?
    I think the ouya devs want them to be. I am not sure if I necessarily agree, but the concept does intrigue me and I really wish someone competent were pushing it.

    But I also think they work to some degree. My video card works great and I have ignored the past few years of releases from nvidia (in a personal capacity. Still paying attention in a research capacity). So I am saing "Yeah, I don't need the new video card, I'll wait for the next", sort of like with phones.

    Obviously with proper consoles this isn't an option as "I'll wait for the next" is a 6-9 year wait. But, yeah :p
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