Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44
  1. #1
    Network Hub Vidi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    152

    DISCUSSION: Structured Fireteams

    Yo!

    Discussion on Dom's Fireteam trainings goes here!

    !!!

  2. #2
    Lesser Hivemind Node Grible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh,Scotland
    Posts
    537
    Just my quick summary and comments.

    SLs
    Set up your squad such that you have yourself plus two teams of four, one inf, and two "floaters" who function as pilots, sundys or tank crews as needed and medics when not.
    The two teams of four were set as 2 HA, 1 Medic and 1 Eng, but this is not set in stone.
    Nominate a "Point Person" (First Hoof, Lead Conspirator) for each team.
    Move the teams around rather than individuals. Call for vehicle support from your floaters as needed.
    Fireteams =/= Squads don't be suckered into playing like you have more than a squad, don't allow your teams to get separated too far . This was about controlling a squad and making it a bit more cohesive but not making it do more than a blob of 12 can - just doing it neater...
    Lead the squad - don't be too hands off - that's the PL's job.

    "The Inf" : Basically provide radar coverage and hack out terminals and perform nuisance flanking and assassinating tasks. Infs were mostly left to their own devices by our various SLs over the night provided they darted up. (Pretend to be Solid Snake)

    Fireteam Leads : Physically lead the way, provide fine tuning to SL orders for your team.
    Giraffes/Traitors : Stick on your team lead - this proved quite hard at times. Play to your class (no charging in first medics etc)

    Floaters
    Stick with a team each until called off for vehicle pulling. Watch your nanites. Be prepared to be the "odd jobs guys"

    Questions raised:
    Is this too prescriptive?
    Is it too hard to setup on the fly?
    Will people bother to use it?
    Are there enough of any given class?
    Is it flexible enough to cope under fire?

    Refinements Suggested:
    Nominate a "MAX puller" - probably the "second heavy" in each fire team.
    Some thought could be given to using the floaters and SL as a third team.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,665
    In short terms the training went well. Besides gribbles points as a start for the discussion I would also like to ad my notes I used tos tart the training. (updated with most of the ideas etc).

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


    As PL I tried to observe the movement of groups and based on what I could see on the map the basics work well. The major downside is the SL, as it requiers a mentality change. As long as a SL remembers that he is an SL and not a mini PL things work smoothly (up to a certain point).

    I'm very interested to see how it would go with 2 squads available, as you would have more freedom for a squad to play with.
    Steam: Dominicus

  4. #4
    Lesser Hivemind Node laldy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    675
    Finding your fire team leader is a PITA, as it isn't obvious.
    When assigned an objective (e.g. fire team 1 to North door of double stack), I recommend to start heading to the objective, it will soon become obvious where the the rest of your fire team is (on the minimap), allowing you to meet up. This also minimises the time between order given and the order being acted on. You could easily waste a couple of minutes congregating after a bad Gal drop for example, which may render the given order pointless.
    Nae King! Nae Quin! Nae Laird! Nae Master! We willnae be fooled again!

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,665
    I agree, but with every new thing it needs a lot of practice to finetune the basics. The idea of having both the pointmans of the fireteams to jump during a quick intro helps a lot.

    Also the point Grible makes about having both the pointmans acting more as a second in command for the SL gives them a more structured position to wich people more easilly flock. But maybe one day we will see the fireteam update....maybe.
    Steam: Dominicus

  6. #6
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    959
    Gal drops in general are going to be a problem. Even after a full squad gal drop, trying to congregate in a point is hard.
    Disclaimer:
    Sometimes I get a bit manic and then I talk too much and wall-of-text a lot.
    This rarely lasts for more than a week or so at a time. Feel free to ignore any and all walls of text at your leisure.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,665
    Just a quick idea, could it work to have FT1 look in the direction the gal is coming and FT2 look in the opposite direction. So you end up more quickly with your own fireteam. Of course, SL orders override this and certain situations (HE prowlers, etc) make it unusable.
    Steam: Dominicus

  8. #8
    Network Hub Vidi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    152
    Squads always need to group up before pushing in. With Boffin's training where we had 4 teams of 3 we'd stick on the roof of the building with team 1 going to the closes north door, team 2 to the closest east door, 3 to the south door and 4 to the west door. Only when all teams ready would the push happen.

    For the two stacks, two squad on each opposite stairs, one on the balcony and one on the lower level doors (or stairs if the SL didn't want to split the squad on two levels.

    With two FTs then this'll need to be adapted but def. workable.

    I've got further thoughts on the fireteams which I'll post a bit later when I'm not supposed to be working

  9. #9
    Lesser Hivemind Node laldy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    675
    I'm not suggesting that people go in one at a time. As people individually make their way to the objective, they can alter their pathing so that the group coalesces before arriving at a rally point close to the target. No-one should push in without the SL or PL giving the go (this includes taking potshots whilst waiting, don't draw the enemy's attention to where you are gathering). The SL/ PL could use smoke to mark the rally points for each fire team.
    Nae King! Nae Quin! Nae Laird! Nae Master! We willnae be fooled again!

  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    959
    Hmm. Smoke use for inter platoon communication is problematic.

    ... I've been thinking of writing an overlay-map so I can draw sick plans and communicate them better. I should do that sometime.
    Disclaimer:
    Sometimes I get a bit manic and then I talk too much and wall-of-text a lot.
    This rarely lasts for more than a week or so at a time. Feel free to ignore any and all walls of text at your leisure.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cephas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,144
    Man if SL could draw on the minimap that'd be incredible.
    Steam: Cephas00 | Planetside 2: Cephas00(VS) - CephasTheSecond(NC)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I will not sleep on the floor. The fuck do you take me for? I teach students, I am not one.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,019
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephas View Post
    Man if SL could draw on the minimap that'd be incredible.
    It's so fucking obvious. I have no idea why this wasn't in the game to begin with.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cei's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,198
    Because penis.

    Give the internet drawing tools and that is what you get.
    RPS Mumble Server [mumble.rockpapershotgun.com:64738]
    ServerAdmin

  14. #14
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    368
    But it would a firing squad penis would it not ? with stuff exploding and shit
    GW2: fersumengin, Ulstermen, Hera Tempastatis
    Planetside 2: Fersumengin, (VS) Fersumengine (NC)
    Steam: Fersumengin
    Battlenet: rnc100#1317

  15. #15
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    135
    Grumpy drawing a spurting cock in the direction he wants us to fire? Can't help thinking that would affect our performance..

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cephas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,144
    I'm sure some would - have it something that can be turned on an off.
    I guess technically it's probably a pain to do well.

    Anyway, fireteams.
    Steam: Cephas00 | Planetside 2: Cephas00(VS) - CephasTheSecond(NC)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I will not sleep on the floor. The fuck do you take me for? I teach students, I am not one.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,019
    Or just let PL/SLs draw whatever they want. If the PL is drawing penises and getting on your nerves then just join a better platoon!

    leaving now to let you all talk about fireteams

  18. #18
    Network Hub Vidi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    152
    Alright, some points, note these are all my personal opinions.

    1. Having two people not attached to fireteams for transport duty felt inefficient and overkill for me when SLing, would personally rather have them always attached to the FT and then get the FT to pull what's needed when needed. In SS you'll always have a dedicated transport anyway and on live it's not needed.

    2. Having the set roles / classes and sizes is a fair bit of work to set up and can be pretty inflexible when at points different roles are required. For assaulting a doublestack having three people as LAs to go in from roof / balcony to disrupt the enemy is better than 5 people cramming into one staircase chokepoints being unable to move & getting cut down.

    3. FTs are only useful when there's a call for FTs. We said that the second fireteam is not a separate squad but that's not quite right. They're an element that is pulled away to perform a separate job. It's up to the SL to ensure that job is doable with the resource they have and if not, task a larger element on that job (usually the whole squad).

    As such I'd rather much go with a flexible fireteam solution. I'd appoint a second (preferably someone with SL experience) and then when a fireteam is required (point hold, secondary objectives) split people off the squad under the lead of that person to perform the job I need. That way I can easily request the specialists needed for the job (e.g. LAs for a doublestack, AV heavies for a sundy or whatever) and portion out the right amount of resource and then let the FT leader get the objective done.

    If we're in a position where we can't split off resource for an objective then it'll have to wait. Splitting your force against a larger opposition is suicide.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,425
    I guess I'll just reiterate my main point when I first did the fire-team training -

    Fire teams are just another tool, one that allows squads to be a bit more flexible and hopefully transfer some of the load from PL/SLs to the individual squad members.

    There is no prescriptive way to run a fire team. They will be context and leader specific. As long as everyone is aware of what the structure/objective is, you could have teams of 2 or 12.

    Fire teams imply the delegation of tasks down to squad members - they require everyone to think a little bit harder about what they're doing, rather than relying on SLs to do everything. For example, in normal squad play, the SL would be in charge of squad cohesion. Everyone in the squad should be trying to maintain it, but ultimately it's one person's responsibility. In fire teams, it is each team's responsibility to maintain cohesion. In fact, I'd prefer if teams didn't have a leader and tried to learn how to do this kind of stuff as a group. In theory, maintaining cohesion with 3 other people should be easier than with a whole squad. In practice, it's not quite that simple (especially in the framework PS2 gives us).

    The main skill I think that is lacking from most people involved (in our outfits and in the game in general) is adaptability. Really, it shouldn't be too much for an SL to ask, for example, 3x4 fireteams to split into 2x6 with not very much notice, adapt their squad composition and change objectives without 10 minutes of micromanaging.

    Learn to look at the squad list and identify what class is missing from your squad, or team. Learn to identify who is and who isn't calling to pull things. If you like doing a specific role (say gal pilot), learn to identify when you will be needed and be ready to do it when requested, rather than taking 5 minutes to go and sort it.

    When I'm leading I think I would prefer to run as a squad rather than a fireteam as I have fairly specific ways I want things done. But if I have a bunch of competent players that I know can cope, I would be happy to run them as smaller fireteams.

    I have no idea what my point was in all this...

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cephas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,144
    I guess for me I prefer to have a whole squad, but if/when that needs split I want that to be instantaneous, with a designated leader for the team I'm not leading.
    Steam: Cephas00 | Planetside 2: Cephas00(VS) - CephasTheSecond(NC)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I will not sleep on the floor. The fuck do you take me for? I teach students, I am not one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •