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  1. #2041
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Flanking works against players too, and they don't even get a luxury of cheating by switching to TPP mode. So yeah, knife op?
    "cheating"?

    It's ok to admit you don't like the game, but at least try make a coherent argument instead of this "i'm right, you're wrong" and twisting words stuff. The knife isn't OP, but it's very effective in the hands of the right player. Just like C4, a situational item, is very effective against tanks if you get the flank on them. It's why tanks have weaker armour at the rear, so people can have tactical advantages based on position.

    C4 will take out tanks, it's unlikely that in an open field with no cover during the day that a medic with C4 will get near the tank before being killed, but if a tank comes near a base where a medic can come running out of a building or get on top of one, it's very easy to take out tanks with C4 in that scenario. It's also easy enough to take them out in an open field if you hop on a flash.
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  2. #2042
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    dont worry, he wont ever. please leave a discussion where you dont actually want to contribute to it, just complain endlessly like you did months ago.
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  3. #2043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Flanking works against players too, and they don't even get a luxury of cheating by switching to TPP mode. So yeah, knife op?
    Just 2-3 days ago I took out 5 tanks in a row as an LA in a tower fight where our spawn was getting shelled by tanks. A situation where people like you would probably be moaning about being spawn camped and how tank zergs are OP. But guess what, other people used their C4 and different AT options too and within a few minutes the tank zerg was gone and we defended the base.

    As somebody who regularly destroys tanks with C4 based on my experience I can only inform you that you are quite wrong probably due to the lack of experience with the game or using conclusions made about the game from months ago and still thinking they're valid. Tanks are so much easier to deal with in this game than they used to be, that if anything the tank drivers should be complaining with their high resource costs. There are literally people whining about C4 being OP on the official forums, that's how far it got.

    And yes your knife analogy is quite apt, since the knife is very effective against targets that are concentrated on something else like say snipers, just like tank drivers won't be standing around waiting for people to C4 them but they'll concentrated on targets and won't notice you coming up 90% of the time. Except that unlike with the knife where they react after the first swipe, they don't react when they get the first brick of C4 on them.

    Also you made me register, congrats.
    Last edited by Gmaz; 27-06-2013 at 10:49 AM.

  4. #2044
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    Welcome! Look forward to hearing more tales of wanton C4 abuse (it really is the best thing).

  5. #2045
    PS2's Biolabs are the equivalent of BF3's Metro. Neither can handle the number of players that will eventually fight there. Far too cramped. I'd be interested to see what would happen if the numbers inside were limited...

  6. #2046
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    Welcome! Look forward to hearing more tales of wanton C4 abuse (it really is the best thing).
    Oooh! Oooh! I've got one!

    Last night I got C4 on a moving harasser. Twice! That's really satisfying.

    This discussion is also making think about using it where a more humane individual might use the knife. Namely, sneaking up on a sniper who is totally oblivious. Then: could knife, could pump action, could C4. I've never taken the C4 route in that situation before but it does sound hilarious!
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  7. #2047
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I think they'd work great if they were more like farms in the sky, protected by the dome. It'd make for great infantry battles without fear of people just bringing MBT's along to wreck the fun.

    The problem with biolabs atm is there's just too many little buildings absolutely everywhere.
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  8. #2048
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I remember back in November/December, we used to think biolab fights were the greatest, or at least many of us did. They required coordinated efforts and sustained pushes, and manoeuvring and were overall a lot of fun.

    What do you think happened since then?

  9. #2049
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyTrooper View Post
    Oooh! Oooh! I've got one!

    Last night I got C4 on a moving harasser. Twice! That's really satisfying.

    This discussion is also making think about using it where a more humane individual might use the knife. Namely, sneaking up on a sniper who is totally oblivious. Then: could knife, could pump action, could C4. I've never taken the C4 route in that situation before but it does sound hilarious!
    Nice, I find it really hard to hit moving targets with it, sometimes it seems to go straight through tanks that are moving.

    If C4 stuck to characters it would be even more amazing. Guess they wouldn't want to make suicide bombing a viable tactic tho, apart from anything else it would probably be way OP.

  10. #2050
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    I remember back in November/December, we used to think biolab fights were the greatest, or at least many of us did. They required coordinated efforts and sustained pushes, and manoeuvring and were overall a lot of fun.

    What do you think happened since then?
    Lettuce made it more noticable how easy they are to defend.
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  11. #2051
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    I remember back in November/December, we used to think biolab fights were the greatest, or at least many of us did. They required coordinated efforts and sustained pushes, and manoeuvring and were overall a lot of fun.

    What do you think happened since then?
    I think numbers fighting there and there's very little to fight over in it now. You used to get great fights taking the generator down for the scu, then the scu, then the points. Now its just, get the SCU, then get the points and camp the spawn room.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    Nice, I find it really hard to hit moving targets with it, sometimes it seems to go straight through tanks that are moving.
    I once threw a piece on the nose of a Sundy who tried to run me over, waited until he took a shot from a passing Lightning and then pulled the trigger on it getting the kill. It was a full sundy too and everyone stayed inside because they thought they where safely away from any AV weapons.
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  12. #2052
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    More and more people upgraded their MAXes, got the layout of the place down and figured out where the chokepoints are.

  13. #2053
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Your moderator's message of the day.

  14. #2054
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    I still think they're ok. If they're defended, they remain stable until someone organised shows up. An organised force is usually able to push through to the SCU gen and hold it, ending the fight basically immediately. One difference to nov/dec is that people have gotten smarter and that there are more explosives now, making it overall harder. Let me ask this: when was the last time a biolab provided a serious obstacle when we either defended or attacked? I can't actually remember a biolab stopping us since the SCU gen is back, but i might just have missed it due to playing less?

  15. #2055
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Hehe, I was going to say, "Do you remember Saurva?" but then I saw the "since the SCU gen is back" bit. Never mind...

    Can't recall biolabs being a serious obstacle since then in fact, no. But I don't play every night.

  16. #2056
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    I remember back in November/December, we used to think biolab fights were the greatest, or at least many of us did. They required coordinated efforts and sustained pushes, and manoeuvring and were overall a lot of fun.

    What do you think happened since then?
    Besides micklygor's and Boris's good points, people also adapted. So they've developed counters for what worked previously.

    IMHO a biolab requires a surprise attack from two entry points, and also a fair amount of Light Assaults. Also, especially against the SCU shield, rushing through the door next to the teleporter doesn't cut it anymore. All three doors must be used, the staircase rushed with MAXes, so that the brawl will deny them the superior firing position from above, medics with revive grenades. Once any progress is being made, the room on the left of the SCU shield (there is usually a cap point there) must be occupied as well, to suppress a counterattack and clear the way to the SCU. All this time LAs disrupt the flow of reinforcements from the spawn room, and hit them from behind.

    Also, even if all these are achieved, they have the means to counterattack from their satellites (gone is the day that we could completely encircle a biolab). So the attackers, if they succeed in their initial push, become the defenders but without the benefit of a spawn inside the facility.

    tl;dr: Everyone pull MAXes and rush through the door doesn't work anymore. It's been six months since it did.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 27-06-2013 at 12:21 PM.

  17. #2057
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    ya, especially with ZOE we now have a way to get to another entrance quickly. we should be using this to our advantage, as the primary entrance is often the only one that's prepped with explosives.

  18. #2058
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    More and more people upgraded their MAXes, got the layout of the place down and figured out where the chokepoints are.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Also, especially against the SCU shield, rushing through the door next to the teleporter doesn't cut it anymore.
    The last couple of dirty big biolab fights I have been in showed exactly this. People have got much better at locking down chokepoints, so they appear to have everything camped, but as soon as you get around to a different angle there actually aren't that many defenders and their flanks/the cap points are completely unprotected.

    Not sure the best way to take advantage of this tunnel vision, Eclectic has clearly put some thought into it tho. More LAs would be good to generally harass the enemy, but you still need a strong ground-level force to hold points.

  19. #2059
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Come up behind, get concs in and Lasher spam baby.

    The Lasher is king of the biolab.

  20. #2060
    Network Hub CaBBagE's Avatar
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    Hmmm, lasher spam... it reminds me of...

    http://youtu.be/uQJ8WrKnLUs

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