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  1. #4501
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    Having the PLs there doesn't mean they're organised. NC's organisation appears to have devolved into a few outfits listening to Zhukov rant at them and having maybe one in every 10 requests for support responded to.
    Could you (or any of the NC regulars) tell us a bit more about Zhukov? I get the impression he's quite influential and controls lots of people, albeit loosely. Is he respected? How many people does he control?

    We have MrKoronas who has a way of grating some people with his style but he is very active at running platoons and tries to get the pubbies involved too. Sounds like he may be Zhukov's closest counterpart?
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  2. #4502
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    Having the PLs there doesn't mean they're organised. NC's organisation appears to have devolved into a few outfits listening to Zhukov rant at them and having maybe one in every 10 requests for support responded to.
    It's possibly even more depressing when you have overpop but are so disorganised that you can't win a fight against 30% TR or VS, which happens a lot on our side.

  3. #4503
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyTrooper View Post
    Could you (or any of the NC regulars) tell us a bit more about Zhukov? I get the impression he's quite influential and controls lots of people, albeit loosely. Is he respected? How many people does he control?

    We have MrKoronas who has a way of grating some people with his style but he is very active at running platoons and tries to get the pubbies involved too. Sounds like he may be Zhukov's closest counterpart?
    He (and a couple of officers from his small outfit) run an open platoon most days, which is generally full. Zhukov in particular is around most primetimes but he has others (such as Morfildur that you might see around reddit). Zerg Recon (his platoon) is useful in that they can take or hold a given based and often get stuff done by sheer numbers, but they aren't tactically aware or very good at specific things. Typically they will take one flank of an attack or defence and allow a... better group of squads (say WASP or CONZ) to move out and complete objectives. Zhukov generally lives up to his name in that his only tactic is to shout over platoon chat to "KEEP MOVING THROUGH THE BLOODY DOOR". I sometimes play in his platoons and have found myself getting more and more annoyed by his lack of tactical awareness. However, he has started a new thing of rolling air zergs by getting everyone in the platoon to spawn a reaver.

    So, in answer to your questions - no, I wouldn't say respected, more utilised for what he can offer. And he never controls more than a platoon (+ hangers on).

  4. #4504
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boffinboots View Post
    It's possibly even more depressing when you have overpop but are so disorganised that you can't win a fight against 30% TR or VS, which happens a lot on our side.
    Although if you are the underpopped VS in that example it's all the better for getting some quick kills! And with extra xp to boot!
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  5. #4505
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    Also the TR have just founded the [UNIT] outfit which is run by PS2 vets and the sole purpose of the outfit is to invite new players, teach them the game and then recommend them to another TR outfit once they feel confident enough.

    If you join the VS on the other hand it is really, really hard to even find a proper functional squad or even platoon. DIG sometimes runs those but they seem to have toned it down significantly during the last weeks. When playing on my own I rarely join existing squads anymore because outside of prime-time you can be almost certain that almost if not all squads listed will be dysfunctional.
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  6. #4506
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boffinboots View Post
    It's possibly even more depressing when you have overpop but are so disorganised that you can't win a fight against 30% TR or VS, which happens a lot on our side.
    Don't worry, we just had our bimonthly NCTO meeting with the topic "DOOM, we are DOOMED". So we should be allright for a short while, untill the next meeting that is.
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  7. #4507
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish food carl View Post
    While this is true for the redundant stuff clinging to our arsenal (CME/maybe the Polaris), the HV45 and Serpent are good enough CQC weapons to deal with Heavies. Otherwise, the standard Carbine/AR are just better used from slightly further away, IMO. If you've got the certs/SC, the Zenith or VX6-7 are actually pretty good, versatile carbines. Don't forget that our SMGs/Shotguns are perfectly respectable either.

    As for ARs, I just don't know. I couldn't recommend anything apart from the HV45. I know some people like the Corvus, and I've never tried the Equinox, but the rest of the AR class just can't compete with the HV45 in the Medic's natural fighting range. The NS11-A/Corvus are decent midrange weapons, but I find that as a medic, I need to be able to clear enemies at close range.

    With all that said, the VS weapons often have good reload times and balanced stats (apart from first-shot multiplier), giving you versatility. I am envious of TR/NC Carbines/ARs, but you can make do pretty well with the HV45 and your choice of VX6-7 or Zenith.
    You don't get it. 143 30mag weapons have higher skill floor, which means, they are harder to use for new players. You NEED headshots to perform as reliable as higher DPM weapons, otherwise you're gonna reload a lot. And what impressions will get a newbie, who can't with lowish 20% accuracy kill a guy? He'll think guns are bad and game is P2W on VS side.

    Sure you have good and great weapons for higher skill players, but those aren't ones, that drive the numbers. You will always lack meat, if your basic weapon selection is gonna be poor for them.

    Speaking of NS-11A... Here's a number of NC assault rifles, that are worse than it: 0.


    Good reload times mean nothing, when you need those to finish off your opponents. You don't have generally that much better accuracy, which already means, you need to be more accurate yourself, to be effective.

    You can't keep newbies - you can't build meat. No meat, no numbers. No numbers - underpop. Sure, your faction may generally have better skilled people, but that means, you'll go extinct a bit slower.
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  8. #4508
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankrotas View Post
    Theory
    That's all very well but there's no small problem with your theory, it's inconsistent with the evidence. VS is underpopped on Miller but equal or over popped on other servers. Why would that be the case if we're all using the same weapons?
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  9. #4509
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyTrooper View Post
    That's all very well but there's no small problem with your theory, it's inconsistent with the evidence. VS is underpopped on Miller but equal or over popped on other servers. Why would that be the case if we're all using the same weapons?
    General population of all world: http://borderlinetactical.net/rsnc/w...ld_id=0&zoom=4

    Conery: http://borderlinetactical.net/rsnc/w...ld_id=1&zoom=4

    Woodman, a server that used to be generally plagued by KotV and other VS overpop: http://borderlinetactical.net/rsnc/w...ld_id=9&zoom=4

    I can go on further, but let's stick with general. There were only 2 servers, that VS was ever truly overpoped: Matherson and Woodmand, due to one having SA on it and other having one of the best zergling outfits ever (KotV). VS was and is underpoped in majority of other situations.

    You are underpoped in more servers, than you are overpoped. Matherson is only beacon left in sea of other faction overpop.

    Least I have a fucking theory and not only whine. YOU, VS, should be the eggheads, not me. I'm a simple merc, maybe that helps to see clearer.


    Point is. The smaller new player retention, the less people you get, the less people you get, the bigger the underpop, the bigger underpop, the smaller veteran retention. There is only so much you can you, before you give up.
    The same issue you have with underpop now, where you can't even make yourself to play long enough, happened to me with NC overpop. You can't play while you're in extremes. Not many can. So they go make themselves an alt and play somewhere else...


    You can continue argue, I don't really care. For all I care, you earned all the underpop you never wished.
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  10. #4510
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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  11. #4511
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    As I have come to learn, our beloved bank aims no hostilities towards anyone, he is just highly opinionated and has a direct and to the point manner. Something of a cultural divide.

    Or I'm wrong and he is one antagonistic bastard (Wuv you, banky)
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  12. #4512
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    I'm inclined to agree with LaKroy; VS don't appeal as much since we had ZOE/Saron/HV45/SVA-88/Orion etc nerfed, but only the Lasher buffed (and they took away its hipfire COF and bloom). Overall effectiveness aside, it would certainly appear to a new VS player that they had gotten the short end of the stick. The Phaseshift was apparently underwhelming. The Zenith has been the only decent addition to the VS arsenal for a long time.

    Bank's sort of right. People don't stick with VS, there's just nothing we can actually do about it. Miller is a strange case, since our overpop problems basically invalidate any conclusions about faction balance, since you get stuck in a loop. Why do people not play VS on Miller? Because we're outnumbered by TR/NC. Why are we outnumbered? Because people don't play VS. Repeat.

  13. #4513
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Since DIG veterans split into DIGT and EMLD imploded Vanu on Miller have lacked decent public platoons. Moreover we have never been good at using tools such as /orders to direct the non-outfit players or leader chat to communicate with leaders outside of the TVA loop.

    There is also a lack of energy to do much about this. As outfit leaders we know we should be doing more to keep up new player retention, we know how important good public platoons are and we know how vital it is to include as many as people as possible in the command loop. But none of us do much about it.

    Last summer I went through a period of running public platoons. It's a drain, a real drain. To do it well, it's basically an evening spent doing admin and it sucks. To do it half arsed is just not as fun as being a PL for RPS.

    Which is the issue. The good leaders on VS have good outfits they enjoy leading and can achieve things with. Why the fuck would any of us give that up to herd zerglings?

    The game has suffered from not having decent outfit recruitment in from the start. Not having decent systems in place for getting players into the equivalent of a guild has severly hurt this MMO. I sometimes feel like the PS2 creative team lacks anyone who's actually worked on an MMO before, where getting people into a community they feel part of is recognised as vital for longevity.

    I honestly do not care about the health of Miller Vanu in toto anywhere near as much as I do about the health of our outfit, and I see no reason why other outfit leaders should feel any differently.
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  14. #4514
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    I agree with cooper on this, only 460 players for VS on top population last night, split over 3 continents(well mostly indar really). is just bad, also the fact that the TR appears to always own all continents is not inspiring for anyone.
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  15. #4515
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    If we at least would have had continent locking already being underpoped wouldn't be such big of an issue as the VS wouldn't be spread out that much. It would most likely still suck, but it would suck a little less.

    Also I don't think that there is much to the "short end of the stick" theory in context to new players. It might apply to vets but vets are not the core of the problem.
    Most new and casual players don't read patch notes and in general don't care about them either. I think that it has more to do with what people have been lamenting since the tech-test: for some weird reason TRay decided to change Vanu from a alien-tech infused cult to hipsters in purple spandex. Besides the Magrider and Scythe we have nothing that looks cool or unique. And don't bring up our Max suit. As much as I love playing as a Max.. it's a crab on high-heels.
    Heck, most of our stuff is from Nanite systems (and everybody gets that)! Our infantry design is laughable at best. Noticed the absense of VS infantry as the primary character in the loading screen? They took the Max suit for a reason. It's the best we have.
    VS design lacks any kind of identity.

    The standard NC or TR grunt simply looks way cooler then the VS design and I come to think that this is what has been hurting VS in the long run. People joining in this game don't know anything about the backstory and especially don't care. They choose what looks coolest and that's definitely not the VS. It's not like NC or TR are looking super cool in the selection screen, but they look familiar and people can easily identify with. VS just looks... strange.

    SOE completely messed up the VS art design for a reason that is beyond me. Well, maybe it's not...



    This is what they should advertise the factions with (well, maybe the NC could get a better looking model but you get the idea). But then people would claim that the selection screen would be "false advertising" as the base models look nothing like this... which might be the root of the problem. Crappy and boring design to sell cosmetics for SC. In the end it all comes down to monetization.

    Last edited by bonkers; 12-05-2014 at 09:53 PM.
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  16. #4516
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    EMLD havent imploded, they just changed their tag to EDIM and now seem to gain RPS members on a semi regular basis...
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  17. #4517
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Can we get stats for total players ever registered to each faction? That could show if vs under pop is a selection screen issue or if it's based on playing the game.
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  18. #4518
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    One stat that could have been helpful was "new registered players per faction" but I don't think that any of the current trackers actually track that number. The only one I know that did that stopped working months (6+ at least) ago as the developer/maintainer stopped playing PS2. I also looked for the old Google sheet in which he published the data but it looks like it was deleted too by now.

    And of course playing the game is an issue too. Getting the short end of the stick" surely is an issue for VS as well as the problem of art design. Besides the Lancer and the Lasher (which are behind a 1000certs/700sc paywall) we have nothing that is really unique too. All is either NS (would it be so hard to come up with a c4 replacement for vs that just looks cool/different?) or just feels the same. Although the lore claims that we are firing plasma our long range weapons have bullet drop and feel just exactly like normal weapons do. At least as TR or NC you can somewhat "feel" their faction traits in weapon handling. Although those get watered down too. For the VS there is nothing special about their infantry and/or weapons and it's really hard to develop any kind of attachment to the faction when everything feels decent but lackluster.

    *edit*
    I just want to make clear that I think that art is the only reason. It surely is not. But I think it adds to the problem and has done so since release. The other faction (partially) also have this problem, but VS get's screwed over by this the most. Add this to the other problems discussed and you get what we have now. No-one here is "100% right" as this surely is not a mono-causal issue.
    I just keep picking on this because I think it could be rather easily fixed.
    Last edited by bonkers; 12-05-2014 at 10:20 PM.
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  19. #4519
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    I don't think plasma being entirely unaffected by the environment is realistic, tbh. Plasma's imagined as a straight beam because it's usually fired in vaccuums, in fiction. In reality it would quickly dissipate without an emitter which would be affected by gravity. For art, rather than just a straight forward ball of light, VS weapons could definitely do with a solid object with a particle emitter for the plasma effect. It would look seriously badass!
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  20. #4520
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    EMLD havent imploded, they just changed their tag to EDIM and now seem to gain RPS members on a semi regular basis...
    tbh I'm fine with non-Mumble using RPS members joining EDIM. It's a better place for them, especially as I see a lot of them in EDIM pubby platoons anyway. As long as we're not losing vets (I'd at least hope any vets leaving joined DIGT or VC/ISK not EDIM).

    I know EMLD changed their tag, but at the same time they also seem to have dropped in effectiveness. I think they've seen a significant drop-off of long term leaders.
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