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  1. #4921
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    I'm not talking about the outfit. I'm talking about the site. I stay with the outfit because I like the people I play with, and they don't seem to have an issue with my political leanings and stances. I can't say that for many other people at RPS as a site, and I've had significant issues with giraffes as well in the past.
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  2. #4922
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    I'm not talking about the outfit. I'm talking about the site. I stay with the outfit because I like the people I play with, and they don't seem to have an issue with my political leanings and stances. I can't say that for many other people at RPS as a site, and I've had significant issues with giraffes as well in the past.
    thats because youre not a racist, nationalist arsehole, and also fun to play/hang out with. If not, then you know, youd end up just the same as the one in that other outfit youve got on ban.

    also, to be honest, I wouldnt know why you'd play in RPS/RTRS. They're / we're pretty well known for not taking shit.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  3. #4923
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    "we know your uncle goes and spits at people he doesnt like, but what are we gonna do, hes our uncle."

    you can single him out and either talk with him, or, you know, not play.
    I disagree that it is my responsibility for my uncle's behaviour, I could talk to him, but so could anyone else in this world, why should I be the one to do it? However If I thought that someone was truly being unreasonable, I will talk to them. I don't want to give names, but I have told people to stop doing things I disagreed with. I do this because I believe myself to be a leader(not of LYF but as a personality trait) and because I would like to encourage others to do what I believe is morally right. However it's not my fault if my uncle is ignorant of anything.

  4. #4924
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugiPula View Post
    I disagree that it is my responsibility for my uncle's behaviour, I could talk to him, but so could anyone else in this world, why should I be the one to do it? However If I thought that someone was truly being unreasonable, I will talk to them. I don't want to give names, but I have told people to stop doing things I disagreed with. I do this because I believe myself to be a leader(not of LYF but as a personality trait) and because I would like to encourage others to do what I believe is morally right. However it's not my fault if my uncle is ignorant of anything.
    my point is: because he is part of your family, he is your responsability, in a way. Now of course, this is an artificial family, but as in real life, you choose your friends. And this is definitely a friend type situation.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  5. #4925
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    I'm not one for changing my opinion on people. He was abusive in one of my open squads like a year ago or whenever it was, I've had him on block ever since and have only ever seen him do bad things. Not interested in getting to know him, if he shoots me or my friends I'll take the day/week/month off from playing for the faction and gun him down.

    Sir Hoc, claiming whites to be the majority is false and evidence of your ethnocentricism
    That's fine, like I've said, I'd like to encourage people to forgive and forget, but it's your choice to think what ever you like.

  6. #4926
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugiPula View Post
    That's fine, like I've said, I'd like to encourage people to forgive and forget, but it's your choice to think what ever you like.
    forgiving and forgetting only works if theres been a change. otherwise there is just forgetting.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  7. #4927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    Personally I feel like everything that needed to be said already has been in the reddit comments. But thanks for checking in with us for whatever reason!
    Okay, no problem. Thanks for telling me that for what ever reason.

  8. #4928
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    also, to be honest, I wouldnt know why you'd play in RPS/RTRS. They're / we're pretty well known for not taking shit.
    I play with RTRS because it's an outfit for people who read RPS, and I read RPS. My beliefs allow for groups that don't take shit within that community, and I get along fine with everyone in my outfit and I've made some good friends. I've no reason to leave, which is why I'm still here. But there are certain tourists I'll request a squad switch if I see online. My problem, my changing myself to deal with it. That's why I think it's wrong for stoopid to namedrop another community for not holding up to his personal standards.
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  9. #4929
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    No, the difference is: do you choose to keep a member thats just vile? What does that say about you? What does it say about the other members?

    etc.
    No, we kicked someone from the outfit last week because we didn't like them. Your opinion of someone isn't the correct opinion of someone, it's will differ person to person, and that is okay, as long as it's not a generalisation right?

  10. #4930
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    thats because youre not a racist, nationalist arsehole, and also fun to play/hang out with. If not, then you know, youd end up just the same as the one in that other outfit youve got on ban.

    also, to be honest, I wouldnt know why you'd play in RPS/RTRS. They're / we're pretty well known for not taking shit.
    Quanta, I am not sure of what to make of what your saying but be aware that you are speaking to one of my officers who's opinion is always valued and will always have a place in RTRS. As long as he remains civil as he always has in my experience.

  11. #4931
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    my point is: because he is part of your family, he is your responsability, in a way. Now of course, this is an artificial family, but as in real life, you choose your friends. And this is definitely a friend type situation.
    Well, since I cannot control what my family is, I'm going to assume you mean it from the point of view like an outfit in which I can control my associations, and I'm going to assume that this hypothetical person is actually some I like and is not just part of a group of which I only like some of the people. I think it's unfair to say it's my fault for that person's actions, because I cannot control them.

    If my best friend went about and murdered a bunch of people and I knew he was going to, and I still did nothing, does that mean that I am condoning what my friend is going to do? I don't think even that is true, it makes me morally bad for not trying to save those people, however I don't think it means I am saying what he's doing is okay.

    However If my best friend went and murdered a bunch of people and I had no idea he was going to do it, then I don't think there is even an argument about whether or not I condone it.

    Anyway I don't wanna get in to philosophy, at least not until I'm drunk :P

  12. #4932
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    forgiving and forgetting only works if theres been a change. otherwise there is just forgetting.
    If stoopiduk calls me a "Shithound" and I am offended by it, yet I see that he's a decent person and was probably just angry when he posted it, I can forgive him and forget about it with out him directly saying he's sorry or coinciding anything. If I stormed in here and demanded an apology do you think anything productive would have happened?

  13. #4933
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    Relevant AND topical:

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  14. #4934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    Relevant AND topical:

    I'm glad you enjoy our conversation,

  15. #4935
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugiPula View Post
    Well, since I cannot control what my family is, I'm going to assume you mean it from the point of view like an outfit in which I can control my associations, and I'm going to assume that this hypothetical person is actually some I like and is not just part of a group of which I only like some of the people. I think it's unfair to say it's my fault for that person's actions, because I cannot control them.

    If my best friend went about and murdered a bunch of people and I knew he was going to, and I still did nothing, does that mean that I am condoning what my friend is going to do? I don't think even that is true, it makes me morally bad for not trying to save those people, however I don't think it means I am saying what he's doing is okay.

    However If my best friend went and murdered a bunch of people and I had no idea he was going to do it, then I don't think there is even an argument about whether or not I condone it.

    Anyway I don't wanna get in to philosophy, at least not until I'm drunk :P
    Quote Originally Posted by SugiPula View Post
    If stoopiduk calls me a "Shithound" and I am offended by it, yet I see that he's a decent person and was probably just angry when he posted it, I can forgive him and forget about it with out him directly saying he's sorry or coinciding anything. If I stormed in here and demanded an apology do you think anything productive would have happened?
    If "you shouldnt get in a discussion when drunk", then why the hell are you wasting posts?

    I can get behind calling someone names. These names could even be racial/nationalist/otherwise slurs, if they had nothing to do with any of those traits. That is something between you two.

    Also, I steered clear from the uncle doing something really bad, such as raping his daughter, but you had to make it worse?

    That is the thing though, its an annoying arsehole, and he is "in your family". Now, in this case, you get to choose your family, you have no obligations whatsoever to this person. Dont you want to either make him agree to try and, you know, not be such an arsehat, and if not, maybe reevaluate if you really want to play with this person? How fun can this guy be if he gets on everyones nerves.. let me guess, he just doesnt get on your nerves?
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  16. #4936
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugiPula View Post
    I'm glad you enjoy our conversation,
    Well it's more that everyone should just get back to enjoying their computer game instead of every thread devolving into this:



    Imma go back to my "WoW in space".
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  17. #4937
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    I don't recall ever saying anyone shouldn't get in a discussion when drunk?

    I don't understand, are you okay with me calling my friends racist terms or not? And not really, since he said it to everyone rather than me, but regardless, It was just an example that we both could relate to, nothing to do with him specifically.

    I never mentioned rape, regardless, It was just an example, I didn't mean to offend you.

    I like this person, he's my friend, However I don't want to talk about specific people and would rather talk about about hypothetical person. If my hypothetical friend was going to do something I didn't like, I will try to make him stop, because I fancy myself a bit of a hero, but not everyone is, and it's not their responsibility to step up and try to control their friends to do what they think is morally superior.

  18. #4938
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    I'm enjoying myself here, having a chat and some tea can be fun.

  19. #4939
    Network Hub Grible's Avatar
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    (Right - I'll been ninja'd about five times so wall of text incoming!)

    This just goes to prove you shouldn't discuss politics, religion or sex at polite parties!

    By my understanding of RPS is the 'be excellent' rule - I have issues with Mickygor's politics - but that's cos we disagree, I imagine he finds me a wishy washy pinko-liberal. I won't be fighting with him about it, because that's not why we come here. Civil debate and disagreement is fine, just don't get all flamey, disagree, dispute, get over it!

    Also his political opinions are his to have even if I think they are wrong. (see Voltaire)

    Some things are however beyond what RPS/RTRS as a community will accept - I imagine there some things beyond what LYF will accept. Those lines are clearly in different places, where you place the line really has to be for each group to call - but society as a whole has placed some things beyond the pale, like racism and homophobia for instance. I don't think it's unreasonable to call someone out on their opinions or their poor taste jokes if those are beyond the mutual society set lines - that said private first - public second! Also including in the callout a bunch of attacks was unnecessary but I think Stoopid is aware of that from comments in other threads.

    Also the only reason I'm still reading/posting on this is cos I'm at work to lock up after a dance class and I nothing else to do so...

    To address the "my friend's a murderer" point,

    If you know your friend is going to do something well beyond the acceptable limits and do nothing to stop them you are in the wrong and by inaction you are condoning. (Insert quote about evil triumphing by good men doing nothing).

    If you don't know but then you continue to stand up for your friend cos he's an all right guy when he's not murdering people then you have to look again at your understanding of "all right".

    It's all about where you draw the lines of acceptable, racist, homophobic behaviour is not acceptable. By allowing it you condone it and so you all get tared by the same brush - personally deserved or not.

    There is also the "but it was a joke" defence.

    It's not a joke if someone would find it offensive (actually there are situations where I think offensive humour is fine, nobody has a right not to be offended - just not abused). Earlier this year I had to stop a group of local am-dram guys "blacking up" ie painting their faces black and wearing afro wigs and acting like monkeys, for a "Joke Sketch". Their argument was "there are no black people likely to be in the audience since it's 'not their kind of show'" (which is all kinds of bad in itself). My point was that all the little kids (this was a "family" show) would later meet black people and have this image already, also (and mainly) it was racist - even if nobody black was there!

    This isn't about moral superiority - it's about being excellent.

  20. #4940
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    Grible you sir have hit the nail on the head.

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