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  1. #941
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    StormTec rather that holding territory will be more important as every territory protects the rest of your territory. So hopefully there will be more running battles where when you loose one base you fall back to the next one to delay the enemey. There should also be more fights over satellites since they protect the main part of the base.

    Edit: Take Hvar for example if the enemy is comming through Quartz Ridge they will only be able to attack the North East sattelite so if you man the walls and guns there you can hold them off outside the base forcing them to capture West Highlands, Allatum Sattelite and come that way to take the South East gate to Hvar to give them more ways into the base. Giving you the chance to rally defenders to hold the smaller outposts to delay the enemy before they reach Hvar.

    This is something that would never happen before becase as soon as Quartz Ridge was lost the enemy would go straight for the west tower at Hvar with air drops and after that taking the satellites, making the walls for techplants often utterly useless.
    Last edited by Wardancer; 09-04-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  2. #942
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I logged on to the test realm for a bit yesterday, and really liked what I saw there! Qaz was worried that it might be a bit sparse connection-wise up around Mao Tech, and I can understand his reservations. I guess we'll have to wait to see how it works in practice. There's probably going to need to be some tweaking along the way, but man, does it look sweet!

    I'm really excited to see the effects on the dynamics of the high-level game.

  3. #943
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    It is going to completely change the strategic game. Making it easy to deny bases and limiting the routes attackers can take should create some interesting strategic fights. But the emphasis will no longer be on choosing the right hexes to attack, since the 'battle lanes' are clearly marked. The emphasis will perhaps shift towards faction-wide resource management (eg. how many people can we afford to throw into this fight?) and squad-level tactics within the big fights (which will hopefully happen more often due to the funnelling of forces into each other down battle lanes and the satellite changes). At the same time, behind-enemy-lines ops could still be viable (eg. hacking a base and holding it to stop the enemy falling back there), but would need to have specific goals to support the main push, since you can't just start capping everything.

    Possibly getting a bit optimistic about all this, but the changes will at least reduce the amount of time we all spend flying around in gals ghost capping.

  4. #944
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    I actually don't like it. It turns Planetside 2 into a MOBA where the players are the minions.

    Although I'm all for great battles and combined arms, this is not the answer. It gives the attacking force too great an advantage. They can steamroll down a lane, going region after region before the defenders have enough time to dig in. The only viable answer is to concede even more territory, so the defenders can organise their counter-offensive.

    The state of game on Miller actually points to the right direction. During the last couple of months, concentration of forces is the name of the game. Capping a lot of territory works, but only as a means to try to split the enemy forces, and concentrate yours in a favourable place and time.

    And some of the perceived flaws of the game are actually flaws of Indar. Too bad that the beta continent is the game for a lot of people, especially a significant portion of PUGs.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 09-04-2013 at 12:56 PM.

  5. #945
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardancer View Post
    Edit: Take Hvar for example if the enemy is comming through Quartz Ridge they will only be able to attack the North East sattelite so if you man the walls and guns there you can hold them off outside the base forcing them to capture West Highlands, Allatum Sattelite and come that way to take the South East gate to Hvar to give them more ways into the base. Giving you the chance to rally defenders to hold the smaller outposts to delay the enemy before they reach Hvar.

    This is something that would never happen before becase as soon as Quartz Ridge was lost the enemy would go straight for the west tower at Hvar with air drops and after that taking the satellites, making the walls for techplants often utterly useless.
    Shit, that's an amazingly good point. We might see walls used as defensive installations like they appear to be designed for at first glance. In my mind, I see proper battle lines and it sounds amazing. I hope it will work out like that at least.

  6. #946
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    I actually don't like it. It turns Planetside 2 into a MOBA where the players are the minions.

    Although I'm all for great battles and combined arms, this is not the answer. It gives the attacking force too great an advantage. They can steamroll down a lane, going region after region before the defenders have enough time to dig in. The only viable answer is to concede even more territory, so the defenders can organise their counter-offensive.
    And once the attacker's momentum is lost, the defenders can strike out and do the same thing again. It comes down to leadership and group responsiveness. That correlates with proper strategy, I don't see what's so bad about that?

  7. #947
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    I actually don't like it. It turns Planetside 2 into a MOBA where the players are the minions.

    Although I'm all for great battles and combined arms, this is not the answer. It gives the attacking force too great an advantage. They can steamroll down a lane, going region after region before the defenders have enough time to dig in. The only viable answer is to concede even more territory, so the defenders can organise their counter-offensive.

    The state of game on Miller actually points to the right direction. During the last couple of months, concentration of forces is the name of the game. Capping a lot of territory works, but only as a means to try to split the enemy forces, and concentrate yours in a favourable place and time.

    And some of the perceived flaws of the game are actually flaws of Indar. Too bad that the beta continent is the game for a lot of people, especially a significant portion of PUGs.
    I'm not convinced by these arguments. We shall have to see. No real point in trying to foresee what the game will be looking like. Personally, I'm with Rizlar on hoping for less ghost capping.

  8. #948
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    And once the attacker's momentum is lost, the defenders can strike out and do the same thing again. It comes down to leadership and group responsiveness. That correlates with proper strategy, I don't see what's so bad about that?
    It is very difficult for the attacker in such a scenario to lose momentum. His flank exposure is severely limited compared to now, so he has less things to worry about. He doesn't have to split his forces too much. He just advances, and the moment success is assured, dispatches forward elements to the next region down the lane, to prepare for his main forces' arrival: sabotage, hacking of assets, disruption of the defender's activity and so on. The defenders will just respawn at the next location down the lane, with limited time to dig in, and, if the attacker has his wits about him, facing the aforementioned situation.

    The only answer: fall back even further. So the question becomes one of amassing the biggest zerg to overwhelm the enemy, as they collide. I concede that it may allow for greater tactical play, since when two equal forces collide that may be the determining factor, but operationally it will only diminish the game: no parallel movement of troops, no maneuvering, no ruses, no dilemmas as to where the actual threat is and where the distraction. And strategically, even less options: capture Indar->way.

  9. #949
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    So the defending commanders will have to choose a good position for a defense somewhat further back. It still takes time to cap a territory, and respawning, getting things up and running before the enemy reaches shouldn't be impossible. And if it does turn out that an attack is impossible to resist, then that becomes an issue about base defensibility and requires tweaking on that front instead (tougher base turres pls!). At least that's how I see it. As Esoteric says though, we'll see once it's done

    Mind you, I do think they could add a few more paths, but it still looks like a good direction.

  10. #950
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm leaning more towards Orius's POV here. But I won't rise to your bait MrEclectic! (not much anyway)

  11. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    It is very difficult for the attacker in such a scenario to lose momentum.
    They are not MOBA lanes, they branch along the way into new lanes so the attacker has to split up more and more as they advance if they don't want to get cut off (ofc the reverse is true as you approach the corners of the map, but it's still not one continuous lane). If they maintain their momentum they become vulnerable, if they split up they lose their momentum, there is at least a strategic decision to be made.

    Mind you if there is a degenerate strategy I'm sure it will be found and exploited quickly. As other people have said though, I guess we'll see.

  12. #952
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    Eclectic what are you talking about? Advantage to the attacker? How? This new change gives every advantage to the defenders because you can actually dig in and stop the enemy push. They will either have to bring in more troops and force you out or go somewhere else. Now attackers just go around defenders and the only real fight are over major installations that someone has decided are important. But really who gives a shit if someone takes your amp-station?

    Now every single base is a gateway to your territory, every single base is a potential place where you can break the enemies attack and start your counter push.

    As for the flanks of the attacker? They are even more exposed now since the defenders can just spawn at a flanking base and attack the push from the side, the push who cannot make sure to take the flanks as well without splitting their forces in two to push both lanes.

    Yes some of the lanes are a bit too restrictive imho, there really should be more branches and "gateway" bases that controls access to multiple territories. Think Quartz Ridge, it should be the gateway to Hvar, Allatum and NS Secure.


    Edit: But like I said I am mostly looking forward to the satellite changes which I think will make battles for major facilities that much better. Finally we will be able to use the bloody gates and walls that litter the place. Finally defenders will have a place to hold and a bloody goal to take back. Suddenly we will know that if we take the satellite from the attackers the main base is safe. However it also opens up the potential of sabotaging a main base behind the satellite while you tie up the defenders. Preparing the field by hacking turrets, terminals taking out shields etc.
    Last edited by Wardancer; 09-04-2013 at 02:57 PM.

  13. #953
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    Had a look at the test server too. In general, i quite like the changes. Too restrictive connections are a real concern though. First example is up north from the WG -> Mao. Further examples:

    Crossroads -> Crown
    Xenotech -> Broken Arch
    Peris Field -> Ayani
    NS mat - Crimson Bluff
    Valley Storage - Feldspar

    All of these seem like logical connections that should be in, probably. Maybe it'd be better if some of those didn't get implemented, but in that case the terrain should probably be adjusted to reflect that.

    Also, satellites are now proper bases meaning that they're not capturable in 60 seconds anymore (rather 5 mins or so). Not a good change. And they give full adjacency to the surrounding territories, not sure how i feel about that yet./
    Last edited by qaz; 09-04-2013 at 03:31 PM.

  14. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    Had a look at the test server too. In general, i quite like the changes. Too restrictive connections are a real concern though. First example is up north from the WG -> Mao. Further examples:

    Crossroads -> Crown
    Xenotech -> Broken Arch
    Peris Field -> Ayani
    NS mat - Crimson Bluff
    Valley Storage - Feldspar

    All of these seem like logical connections that should be in, probably. Maybe it'd be better if some of those didn't get implemented, but in that case the terrain should probably be adjusted to reflect that.
    Yeah I agree that the middle should be more connected. But the terrain should not be the only thing that makes bases connected, leaving open terrain for flanking and letting troops move from one lane to another without it being an actual influence connector is good imho.

  15. #955
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardancer View Post
    StormTec rather that holding territory will be more important as every territory protects the rest of your territory. So hopefully there will be more running battles where when you loose one base you fall back to the next one to delay the enemey. There should also be more fights over satellites since they protect the main part of the base.

    Edit: Take Hvar for example if the enemy is comming through Quartz Ridge they will only be able to attack the North East sattelite so if you man the walls and guns there you can hold them off outside the base forcing them to capture West Highlands, Allatum Sattelite and come that way to take the South East gate to Hvar to give them more ways into the base. Giving you the chance to rally defenders to hold the smaller outposts to delay the enemy before they reach Hvar.

    This is something that would never happen before becase as soon as Quartz Ridge was lost the enemy would go straight for the west tower at Hvar with air drops and after that taking the satellites, making the walls for techplants often utterly useless.
    But it doesn't stop you air lifting infiltartors to the western tower, hacking the terminals and pulling a bunch of sundys and getting them deployed.

    If it works out, then walls will be primary defensive positions but decent tactics will still get you around them, rather than things becoming even more a game of numbers.

    What I would like to see are secondary objectives (see: The ANT system from PS1) that take place in neutral territory.

    Things like the pipelines in Indar being linked to resource movements that could be sabotaged. or those comm towers dotted about Amerish far from outposts that could be sabotaged to disrupt map information. That kind of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
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  16. #956
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    Eclectic makes a mistake up above, (that Wardancers does in fact catch) that I think we are going to see a lot of people make once this system goes live:
    Thinking that movement has to be along the lanes, and that strategic options derive from this.
    This is a huge misjudgement, and those that make it will be punished.

    Attackers surging up to Crossroads will be made to regret not having The Crown.
    Trying to take Hvar via Quartz ridge can still get you wiped out with an Alltaum flank.
    Alkali will be a great base for launching attacks on Dhaka.
    Defenders at Galaxy Solar could have the base taken from under their noses if they point all their guns at Briggs.

  17. #957
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Eclectic makes a mistake up above, (that Wardancers does in fact catch) that I think we are going to see a lot of people make once this system goes live:
    Thinking that movement has to be along the lanes, and that strategic options derive from this.
    This is a huge misjudgement, and those that make it will be punished.

    Attackers surging up to Crossroads will be made to regret not having The Crown.
    Trying to take Hvar via Quartz ridge can still get you wiped out with an Alltaum flank.
    Alkali will be a great base for launching attacks on Dhaka.
    Defenders at Galaxy Solar could have the base taken from under their noses if they point all their guns at Briggs.
    I was thinking the same thing. Ambushing blind enemy advances from "unexpected" angles and so on is what will seperate the wheat from the chaff in a strategic sense. Looking forward to it.

  18. #958
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    http://dk.reddit.com/r/Planetside/co..._play_on_test/

    let's help test the lattice on the weekend.

  19. #959
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Thought your accent was german Qaz! Guess not.
    Find me on the Steams

  20. #960
    Activated Node DukeOfChutney's Avatar
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    I've been looking at various player stats on Planetside 2 players beta.

    Its interesting looking at Daddys stats (im assuming folks know who he is). He as a kd of 42:1. Which is insane!

    the vast majority of his kills (i havent added it up but i guess say 90%) come from Max suit and Mosquito (17,000 kills). He hardly uses liberator or galaxy or sunder at all. His time in all these vehicles is less than a few percent of his total play time. Most of his tank kills are infantry (i think i have more MBT vs vehicle kills than he does).

    So thats the secret to topping the server guys and gals, don't spend anytime in team play vehicles, Max and Fightercraft it.

    also hes killed me some 4 times. I've never killed him.

    Bankrotas, you've killed me twice, and I've killed the Racoon twice. WOOP

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