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  1. #1661
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    Warpgates rotate CCW? We get the top gate again on Indar?
    If your clock works that way... Otherwise, welcome to the canyons.
    Hear from the spirit-world this mystery:
    Creation is summed up, O man, in thee;
    Angel and demon, man and beast art thou,
    Yea, thou art all thou dost appear to be!

  2. #1662
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankrotas View Post
    If your clock works that way... Otherwise, welcome to the canyons.
    Derp. Should drink coffee before posting.

  3. #1663
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was gonna say my clock goes the other way around.

    And yes, sad to hear that Buzz the Nazi gets such treatment, though I suppose he is the leader of one of the biggest and most influential outfits. The asshat.

  4. #1664
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meloncrab View Post
    My resurrection grenade will love those.
    I wish resurrection grenades weren't thrown like a football. I'm tired of having them bounce off walls and miss the target or even worse, when I throw it and the second it leaves my hand some Vanu player comes and stands his head right in front of my arc, which makes the thing bounce off his head and back towards me.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  5. #1665
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    "Vanu players dont use stuff unless it'S op"

    Maybe its just because before Vortex and ZOE the VS Max was the worst of the three...

    But those comments (which happen all the time) don't make me very confident that SOE is actually able to balance stuff. Also the personal invite to Buzz after all the shit he did during the years... yeah. Doesn't increase SOEs standing in my books.
    (Firefall: bug shot) // (PS2: bobby is going home)
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  6. #1666
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    I think it's less the vortex, and more the CoF buffs that happened a couple of patches earlier that made the VS maxes worth using. It's just that ZOE made everyone see that. Also that ZOE makes playing a MAX much more fun and versatile.

  7. #1667
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call ZoE OP. It's now on par with the other MAX's, as in it's actually usable without needing 3 engineers following you around constantly and just being underpowered.

    Before ZoE I'd only ever pull a dual-buster because it was about the only version I found effective at anything.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  8. #1668
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    He did say that the VS MAX had the overall highest KDR of all factions, though. I'm wondering if that's because fewer of them were around, and those who played MAX a lot were simply better at it, or had better support crews...

  9. #1669
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I wouldn't call ZoE OP. It's now on par with the other MAX's, as in it's actually usable without needing 3 engineers following you around constantly and just being underpowered.

    Before ZoE I'd only ever pull a dual-buster because it was about the only version I found effective at anything.
    Oh don't give me that shit. After NC max nerf the balance between maxes was pretty equal, NC tailing bit behind at SPM and kills and VS maxes being at top. So don't give me no shit about VS maxes being shit, they weren't what you wanted, but they weren't shit.
    Now you have an ability, which makes you walk faster than infantry and tad slower than sprinting, getting a fucking damage buff on top of that while also getting 20% more damage, which by Ksempacs calculations still translates to 11k effective health with KA5, why the hell ZOE with KA5 should have more effective hp against bullets than any other max not using KA5?
    Hear from the spirit-world this mystery:
    Creation is summed up, O man, in thee;
    Angel and demon, man and beast art thou,
    Yea, thou art all thou dost appear to be!

  10. #1670
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    I think it's interesting that the other factions (like Bankrotas here) like to bang on about the damage buff of ZOE. It's pretty much irrelevant in infantry combat, especially when you realize that most of the ZOE maxes you see will only have rank 1 in ZOE. Most ZOE maxes will not kill you (as infantry) any faster than non ZOE. Against other Maxes, ZOE is a downside in 1 vs 1s (the practicalities change a bit as the numbers change).

    The improved effectiveness of ZOE maxes is purely down to the mobility bonus. Being that much more mobile puts maxes where you don't expect and also means that they stay with their squads. It means you can't stick your head around a corner, see a Max, and go "nope" and run away again, because it can keep up with you (incidentally, the experience with a Hacksaw max is much the same, there's no option to disengage from one because you've already been shredded).

  11. #1671
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Did I touch a nerve or something?

    VS MAXs were terrible for a long time, since the start of the game. Compared to other factions MAX's they weren't worth pulling.

    Now we have an ability that makes them as useful as other MAXs. Other MAX's can still beat out our MAX's, but not as easily as they could before.

    MAX's beat most infantry, except maybe HA with rockets or LA's with C4 and that's across the board. Unless he's afk or a super bad player, I'm not killing an NC or TR max as a medic or engineer with just bullets on my own.

    If you think all Vanu MAXs are running around with ZoE 5 and KA 5, then you're horribly mistaken. I run with ZoE and KA 2, I kill plenty of infantry, but if 3 or more of them work together, I die. If a tank spots me, I die. If a lib or ESF spots me, I die.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  12. #1672
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I do agree with Bankrotas though, that the mobility bonus was probably a bit too large. Will be interesting to see what they did to it in GU10.

    I do hate one-hit-kill weapons with a passion however, and the Hacksaw is most definitely one of them. One of the major problems with them is the way the netcode sometimes don't allow you to see someone until after they have already killed you.

  13. #1673
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    Thing is, it feels like at the moment, VS and TR should be making the bulk of their squads up from MAXes with engineer support. It has its weakness, but generally you'll steamroll equivalent size forces that aren't running 40-50% MAX.

    For NC, I'm not sure it works so well. You'll do fine with indoor conflicts, but if there's any open space to squabble over...

    NC need a low RoF low CoF AI railgun or something for maxes, I guess.

  14. #1674
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I liked it in PS1 how MAXes were really terrifying opponents but you had to give 3 or 4 of your 20 available (at maximum Battle Rank) certification points for it. Not everyone could pull a MAX since it required some specialisation. They're just a bit too cheap and easy to come by now.

  15. #1675
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    If they made sure the Falcons where proper AI splash damage weapons they could be very effective in outdoors combat with their maxes. That way they can keep their shotgun flavor as primary AI weapons but still have a medium range AI gun.

    Or change one of the shotguns to like 4 pellets with very tight spread which will make it comparable to a medium AI gun.


    However the Damage buff on ZOE is important, especially in Max vs Max combat simply because you dodge _AND_ deal more damage. Sure if you stand still your damage increase is negated by your lower damage resistance but you are not. So saying the ZoE is only good for the movement is just wrong. There is also the matter of different weapons getting more use of it than others, stuff like dual comets + zoe dealing a lot of damage in the first strike as you step through a door etc.


    But Higby is wrong that we only use the ZoE because it is op, what ZoE did was make the Max a lot more fun because you move faster. This is why there are vanu maxes everywhere now. People like mobility and to take action. So playing a VS max is now more fun than it used to be, hence more maxes. TR got a lockdown which, no matter hower powerful it is, just is not nearly as fun to use because you take a way your ability to take action. The NC shield has a little of both, you keep your "take action" potential because you can move but it also takes away your weapons. Actually it would be pretty darn cool if the NC Max shield were a bit smaller and left the left arm unprotected but at the same time lets the max use that left arm.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    I liked it in PS1 how MAXes were really terrifying opponents but you had to give 3 or 4 of your 20 available (at maximum Battle Rank) certification points for it. Not everyone could pull a MAX since it required some specialisation. They're just a bit too cheap and easy to come by now.
    Especially bursters...

  16. #1676
    Network Hub Skhalt's Avatar
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    And they needed their own special spot in a Galaxy or a Sunderer too, which made it a bit harder to haul them around between bases (most would just engage the sprint mode and go on foot) and you couldn't do a MAX-crashing gal drop.

  17. #1677
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    I never experienced the 1-hit-kill'yness of hacksaw unless I charged in (pre-nerf, not gonna waste charge on normal infantry), which meant dying at most 10 seconds later, usually during the 4s reload. The effective range of hacksaw is ridiculously short, I can't even judge how short it is to me because 10m looks like 5m in my eyes (apparently these small buildings are over 10m long?? 10 feet perhaps). I never even bother pulling them any more, my MAX is either AA or a meatshield.

    As for ZOE - it'd be great if I ever faced just 1. I might stand a chance if I happen to have a meatshield up. I can't remember the last time I did, though. But still, I can't decide whether I hate ZOE or Lockdown MAXes more. In towers, and other such bases with indoor cap points, 2 MAXes with an engie in the corners can just spam the entrances and stop any infantry getting in. No grenades affect them because they don't need to aim, TTK on infantry is something ridiculous like 0.167. 4 people tying up what would probably be an entire squad to stand any hope of taking them down. Open field play is where ZOE excels, but they can be flanked. Can't flank Lockdown MAXes in the corners of a room you have to take to extend the lattice link.
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  18. #1678
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    Enemy Health Bar Change
    Enemies farther than ten meters away will no longer display health bars when spotted; this applies to both infantry and vehicles.

    Wow, this is a huge change !

  19. #1679
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Indeed. Next up perhaps they will remove the indicator of how many people are in a vehicle, making decoy Galaxies a thing.

  20. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankrotas View Post
    Oh don't give me that shit. After NC max nerf the balance between maxes was pretty equal, NC tailing bit behind at SPM and kills and VS maxes being at top. So don't give me no shit about VS maxes being shit, they weren't what you wanted, but they weren't shit.
    Now you have an ability, which makes you walk faster than infantry and tad slower than sprinting, getting a fucking damage buff on top of that while also getting 20% more damage, which by Ksempacs calculations still translates to 11k effective health with KA5, why the hell ZOE with KA5 should have more effective hp against bullets than any other max not using KA5?
    angry about internet video games itt

    zoe maxes are OP right now, and were mediocre before (after the blueshift buff i mean, before that they were outright bad in comparison to scatmaxes and mercies. don't know how you can slice that any other way). the problem post-blueshifts was though that they were - due to aesthetics, whatever - really goddamn boring. as micky says, they're now tonnes of fun so everyone pulls them. the damage bonus doesn't change anything though either way, it's just the cherry on top.

    also i don't get the point about KA5. you have 5,000HP less with ZOE + KA5 than KA5 alone. it's actually a bigger penalty (both additively and multiplicatively) than when you have KA0
    Last edited by cfftble; 05-06-2013 at 12:10 PM.

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