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  1. #1681
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    bleh. i don't want that stupid warpgate back. we barely had any time to settle in our home gate!

  2. #1682
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    IMHO, it's not just ZOE. The buffs to a lot of VS MAX weapons, especially Blueshifts and Comets, the reduction in price to a lot of MAX weaponry, even cosmetic options that don't make the VS MAX look like a huge purple fairy, all played their part. VS MAXes used to be terrible, or at least had a reputation as such, the cost to upgrade a MAX was prohibitive to a lot of players (why spend so much for so little gain?), and they didn't even look that cool (cool factor is always important). Hence, few VS MAXes.

    Now ZOE is the new and cool thing, it is effective in open field battles and not too tight bases, plus people have the option to get good weapons for the MAXes on the cheap. Ergo, a whole lot of VS MAXes. A lot of them with dual Blueshifs, ie sequential headshooter, or dual Comets especially for f2p players, ie instagib. The latter being a lesson we've learned the hard way from ScatMAXes and FracMAXes.

    Also, the ZOE MAX is different to the other MAXes. MAXes up to now were slow, hard hitting and tough opponents. The other factions's special abilities emphasise either the hard hitting or tough aspect. ZOE MAXes are fast and relatively fragile. People have not come to realise yet how much fragile, and are still treating them as regular tough MAXes.

    There is also a greater shift in the capabilities of the VS. Magriders got that huge nerf back in January, VS MAXes were never present, and our small arms were a joke beyond mid range. All that has changed, as our capabilities are getting more in line with the other factions'. VS are also underpopulated in most servers, yet still manage to perform well, even when or perhaps because of being constantly double teamed (somehow in a lot of servers they get to hold Indar for long periods of time). The removal of handicaps or overzealous nerfs has resulted in a faction with a tendency for resilience, more or less organised and coordinated, having access to competitive capabilities. Already a hard opponent up to this point, VS now seem OP.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 05-06-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  3. #1683
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    bleh. i don't want that stupid warpgate back. we barely had any time to settle in our home gate!
    I thought it was just my impression, but the rotation does seem a bit too soon, doesn't it?

  4. #1684
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Also, the ZOE MAX is different to the other MAXes. MAXes up to now were slow, hard hitting and tough opponents. The other factions's special abilities emphasise either the hard hitting or tough aspect. ZOE MAXes are fast and relatively fragile. People have not come to realise yet how much fragile, and are still treating them as regular tough MAXes.
    I wouldn't say that we've not realised. At least, on a personal level I have and I do notice a lot of people who fight VS MAXes differently. I'm more inclined to just stand there and shoot, rather than to doge, get in close and blow up. That said, I've given up trying to run away, because it's impossible. Sets in despair, which does as much to aid cries of OP as pure stats does.
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  5. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    He did say that the VS MAX had the overall highest KDR of all factions, though. I'm wondering if that's because fewer of them were around, and those who played MAX a lot were simply better at it, or had better support crews...
    Or... because the only reason to pull a MAX pre-ZOE was to pull one with Bursters.

  6. #1686
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    I wouldn't say that we've not realised. At least, on a personal level I have and I do notice a lot of people who fight VS MAXes differently. I'm more inclined to just stand there and shoot, rather than to doge, get in close and blow up. That said, I've given up trying to run away, because it's impossible. Sets in despair, which does as much to aid cries of OP as pure stats does.
    I have to say this for the Traitors, you always play smart.

    As for the despair, that's what we've always felt when facing ScatMAXes. Yet even then, personally I never cried for nerf (there are some discussions here between Bankrotas and me on the topic). Something to fear, something awesome and awe inspiring adds to the excitement of the game.

    On a tangent, I feel that somehow the game now is in that uncomfortable place it was back in December, with too many explosions. Only this time around infantry is both the perpetrator and the victim.

  7. #1687
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I'd cry for a nerf either. Perhaps to mobility to stop the strafe warping. Personally, I'd just bump the resource cost of a MAX up to 300. There are too many MAXes on the field at the moment, and there needs to be a cost associated with pulling them. As it stands, I have no problem filling my stocks and still being able to afford a MAX. It should be one or the other.
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  8. #1688
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    I have 40/40 of all consumables I use and roll around with 750 infantry credits constantly. I don't see how making them cost 300 will make you have to choose between nades and maxes.

    Not that it's a bad idea, mind you. Maxes are too cheap and increasing the cost will make chain pulling them a bit harder. I also like the suggestion I saw on reddit that resurrecting a MAX costs credits or should have a limit (like 1 rez per max or something).

  9. #1689
    Lesser Hivemind Node apricotsoup's Avatar
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    I think in general maxes and most vehicles are far too cheap on resources, but I don't really think the resource system as it is works as intended.

    On the other hand I'm always really poor on infantry resources keeping 100 aside for maxes. Always burn through med packs, grenades, c4 and mines and it adds up quickly.

  10. #1690
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    I'm frequently running out of consumables. Perhaps I'm too liberal with their use. I'll burn through 2 C4 almost every life with my LA, I'm always going after MAXes, Tanks or Sunderers because that's what LA is useful for. Always put down tank mines or bouncing betties, because they hang around for ages and might protect from ghostcapping.

    Should be noted that this doesn't conflict with my earlier post. I can always spare 100 res for a MAX cos generally I'll get most of that back whilst in the suit and not using consumables.
    Last edited by mickygor; 05-06-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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  11. #1691
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    Remember that alpha squad and membership both give resource boosts.

    For those without either, being out of resources is quite common. Sustained infantry battles often see me out of inf resources, and all I use are frag nades, C4 (1 per life) and the occasional max. (OK, so also mines, but I only use them as a set up before battles, not during). Equally, if we're at 1/4 or less territory on a continent, I often find I can't pull the vehicles I want, due to a mechanized shortage.

  12. #1692
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    300 resource to spawn 100 to revive and suddenly maxes becomes a lot more precious, you cannot just barge into whatever and get revived. Free revives for maxes is just stupid when looking that the firepower they have now.

  13. #1693
    Network Hub Qw33r's Avatar
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    There need to be a higher maximum of ressources you can have (instead of 750 maybe 1500?) AND higher prices so its more long term oriented - maybe you need tanks for a push, even 3 in a row or sth but afterwards you're really out of res and need to play for 1 1/2 h as normal soldier

  14. #1694
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Remember that alpha squad and membership both give resource boosts.

    For those without either, being out of resources is quite common. Sustained infantry battles often see me out of inf resources, and all I use are frag nades, C4 (1 per life) and the occasional max. (OK, so also mines, but I only use them as a set up before battles, not during). Equally, if we're at 1/4 or less territory on a continent, I often find I can't pull the vehicles I want, due to a mechanized shortage.
    I don't have any boosts. I run out of mech resources too. I can spam my way out of infantry resources too. But I find that with my playstyle I just don't run out of infantry resources. I pop medkits, nades, AI and AT mines and concs like everyone else, but probably not as much.

  15. #1695
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    I'm sorry I sounded angry about game, I was angry or more like annoyed.
    I'm not angry at VS having a max, that's op, it's fine, it will be nerfed, I'm angry at people saying it's not op.
    VS max weapons I'm in love with, they're for me were way better than anything NC has or TR could offer. And that was prior to ZOE.
    Thing is, ZOE might have mobility as a buff, but honestly it was over the top. Theoretically max could be faster than infantry, but should have a lot of momentum as a vehicle does then.
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  16. #1696
    Network Hub RushTon's Avatar
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    Seems that for those who got free membership it expired today. ah well was good while it lasted.
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  17. #1697
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankrotas View Post
    I'm sorry I sounded angry about game, I was angry or more like annoyed.
    I'm not angry at VS having a max, that's op, it's fine, it will be nerfed, I'm angry at people saying it's not op.
    VS max weapons I'm in love with, they're for me were way better than anything NC has or TR could offer. And that was prior to ZOE.
    Thing is, ZOE might have mobility as a buff, but honestly it was over the top. Theoretically max could be faster than infantry, but should have a lot of momentum as a vehicle does then.
    ZOE MAX's do carry momentum. If you're not careful you can run off a cliff or a landing pad and take massive fall damage. I've done it plenty of times.

    And how are they OP? If they were OP, they couldn't be beaten. They have hard and soft counters. Hard counters are explosives or combined small fire arms. They're not as good in close range as Scat MAXs and they can't hold the point as well as TR ones in lockdown as someone mentioned earlier. In a fight against an NC MAX who shields, a ZOE will lose as long as the NC isn't a terrible shot and an NC MAX even with terrible shot will win if the ZOE just stands there (lets assume they both have the same level of Kinetic).
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  18. #1698
    Lesser Hivemind Node apricotsoup's Avatar
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    I think the ZOE max was a little over the top, but I have to say Higby's comments once again make me really think he shouldn't do any public facing stuff and that various other features that seem a bit out of whack are still going unchecked (strikers being a prime example).

    The acceleration and deceleration speed changes should help with the max being a bit too nippy about the place, but I have to say being able to get around fast in a max is fun compared to the monotony of slowly wobbly about the place (which the other factions still have to).

  19. #1699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marquise View Post
    Enemy Health Bar Change
    Enemies farther than ten meters away will no longer display health bars when spotted; this applies to both infantry and vehicles.

    Wow, this is a huge change !
    whut. this isn't really a good change for tank combat (or all vehicular combat, really).

  20. #1700
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    I know I'm deviating from the dogma here, but I think Strikers and Fractures are both in line with their VS & NC counterparts (though the Phoenix could use a bit of a range buff). People who haven't used the Vortex don't realise how ridiculous it is, and people who haven't faced down a Lancer squad don't realise how it's even nastier than a Striker squad. Seriously, what the hell were the devs thinking when they started handing out infinite range no-dropoff weapons?

    The other thing about massed AV that people forget is that 20 guys and gals with Strikers should be able to obliterate tanks and Sunderers and Scythes driving at them one by one. If the attacker gathered as many vehicles as there were AV defenders, then they'd survive just fine.
    Last edited by cfftble; 05-06-2013 at 02:16 PM.

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