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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Did everyone miss my last post? Those are some pretty solid specs, provided that the games aren't gpu-killers from hell.

    And from what I understand: No, this is not the Steambox. Some Valve guy apparently said that the Steambox won't be revealed until GDC or later.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    I think at best this is a niche thing. It's essentially for moneyed PC Gamers who want to play their Steam titles in the living room without having to go through the rigmaroll of dragging the tower into the living room or run cables throughout the house.

    Great idea in principle, however unless there's some hardware voodoo going on that we're not seeing and there's a couple of 680s strapped together in there to provide some major graphical horsepower to the thing it seems like a bit of an indulgence given the next gen consoles are around the corner and will likely kick it's arse in those stakes.

    Probably the thing to look out for is the next version in truth. I don't doubt this will sell modestly, however I fully expect there to be a new beefier version out once the PS4 & & 720 hardware specs are finally unveiled.

    Personally ..I'm ok with playing my games on the PC using a controller as is (I have a comfortable chair), plus I'm not bogarting the TV when I'm gaming. However I can certainly see this might have some appeal to people who want to leverage their high def TVs and kick back with a controller on the couch.
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  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    Hey, could we look at this from different perspective?
    If steambox picks off and the coding for it won't really be much different from pc game coding, maybe, just maybe, we'll get more decent console "ports".
    If Valve has enough financial capabilities to make a console and not get too burned from this, if they fail, why not let them?
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  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankrotas View Post
    Hey, could we look at this from different perspective?
    If steambox picks off and the coding for it won't really be much different from pc game coding, maybe, just maybe, we'll get more decent console "ports".
    If Valve has enough financial capabilities to make a console and not get too burned from this, if they fail, why not let them?
    I don't think that will happen because it's more likely that the steambox is a box, which can play games that you buy and install from steam directly. Nobody will be making games for the steambox or making exclusives for the steambox like they do for the consoles. The only people that might would be Valve and even they wont. It's also more likely that it's Valve who will be doing porting rather than say Ubi or EA, which is an idea backed up by Valves current big drive to supporting Linux.

  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    It looks a little around the same size as a gamecube. It's made smaller by virtue of no moving parts. [...] As I said, it's not going to run crysis at 120 million fps, but it doesn't have to. It has to run AssCreed 3, the next GTA and the next CoD at respectable fps and smoothness. At 30fps you're pleasing the consolers, more than that and you're likely to start winning some of the hearts of PC fans who will accept a frame and graphics drop.
    Except it probably isn't. Your link to the GPU page is useless - it just states whether it meets minimum requirements. The 7660G is similar to a mobile-class GPU. This is a much better resource. It's a long way down the list. Far Cry 3 is barely playable on Low @ 1024x768. AC3 flat out isn't playable with an FPS below 20. Some of the more forgiving games and older titles work better, but there's no way it'll play the next GTA. Next-gen games (we're moving into a new console era, expect a jump) will be even more demanding. 8GB of RAM is great, cool, whatever, but it's irrelevant if processing power is a bottleneck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Did everyone miss my last post? Those are some pretty solid specs, provided that the games aren't gpu-killers from hell.
    No, I did read it. And again I saw nothing in there that really contradicts my concerns. A lot of games are GPU heavy, and I doubt that this thing will be able to push them at 720p at an acceptable FPS (even by console standards).

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by His Master's Voice View Post
    I can't see how 1k hardware with about 150 bucks worth of performance would sell, but perhaps that's the reason I'm not a billionaire.
    This business model has served Apple fairly well.
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  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Except it probably isn't. Your link to the GPU page is useless - it just states whether it meets minimum requirements. The 7660G is similar to a mobile-class GPU. This is a much better resource. It's a long way down the list. Far Cry 3 is barely playable on Low @ 1024x768. AC3 flat out isn't playable with an FPS below 20. Some of the more forgiving games and older titles work better, but there's no way it'll play the next GTA. Next-gen games (we're moving into a new console era, expect a jump) will be even more demanding. 8GB of RAM is great, cool, whatever, but it's irrelevant if processing power is a bottleneck.
    Early predictions indicate that the next-gen consoles won't be such massive improvements, so it might fare pretty well. I know, it isn't the raw hardware that's the thing with consoles, it's the optimization. But if this isn't modular (yeah, I know), it'll be easier to optimize for. Hopefully, it will also widen the PC market, thus providing incentives for decent ports.

    Btw, here's a link to a Neogaf summary of the conference where that Valve dude I mentioned earlier said that the Steambox won't be revealed until GDC or later:

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506899

  8. #48
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    If it is a mobile GPU you can expect NO game to run well. If at all. Which leaves only one option, a Steam Big Picture client.

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Except it probably isn't. Your link to the GPU page is useless - it just states whether it meets minimum requirements. The 7660G is similar to a mobile-class GPU. This is a much better resource. It's a long way down the list. Far Cry 3 is barely playable on Low @ 1024x768. AC3 flat out isn't playable with an FPS below 20. Some of the more forgiving games and older titles work better, but there's no way it'll play the next GTA. Next-gen games (we're moving into a new console era, expect a jump) will be even more demanding. 8GB of RAM is great, cool, whatever, but it's irrelevant if processing power is a bottleneck.


    No, I did read it. And again I saw nothing in there that really contradicts my concerns. A lot of games are GPU heavy, and I doubt that this thing will be able to push them at 720p at an acceptable FPS (even by console standards).
    Except it also shows if it meets the recommended requirements? Just you know, to the right of the minimum ones? And again, that GPU is what is offered in Xi3's biggest machine to date, NOT WHAT THE STEAM BOX HAS. You can expect the steambox to be more powerful.

    Steam are not in the market of selling just indie games, they sell everything including AAA's. They're super good at making money. Do you actually think they'd be going ahead with any of this if they didn't think they could sell people a device capable of playing AAA games? The specs I linked are what Xi3 have been able to do thus far, with little investment. They've got Valve and GabeNs money behind them now.

    And I expect a jump in graphics like everyone from the next console era, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near what we got going from PS1-PS2-PS3 level of graphics. PCs are already years ahead of what's in consoles. I expect the next generation of consoles to maybe catch up to a mid-high level pc in terms of graphics that we have now.

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Early predictions indicate that the next-gen consoles won't be such massive improvements, so it might fare pretty well. I know, it isn't the raw hardware that's the thing with consoles, it's the optimization.
    I'd at least expect 1080p to become the standard, which does necessitate a decent bump in specs. Remember though that they will have to last several years so I'd expect a decent improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rossi View Post
    If it is a mobile GPU you can expect NO game to run well. If at all. Which leaves only one option, a Steam Big Picture client.
    Which is where I'd say this thing is heading.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Except it also shows if it meets the recommended requirements?
    Recommended and minimum requirements are pretty much useless. Again the link I provided has results from actual gameplay, not "Yeah it matches or exceeds these specs that the dev tossed together so give it a shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    And again, that GPU is what is offered in Xi3's biggest machine to date, NOT WHAT THE STEAM BOX HAS. You can expect the steambox to be more powerful.
    Again look at the size of it or a similar form factor. They're not going to cram a decent desktop-class GPU in there which will do what you're asking. We don't know what the Steambox will have but if that's the size they're aiming for we can take some reasonable guesses! If it turns out to be a larger HTPC-sized thing then that's a different story, but a cube thing like this? Good luck. I'm yet to see a gaming HTPC worth the money, I see no indications of this mob changing that, even if their only goal is to match consoles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Do you actually think they'd be going ahead with any of this if they didn't think they could sell people a device capable of playing AAA games?
    Yes, of course, if it works like Rossi says as a remote client. So what if it won't run major AAA titles at any appreciable speed or quality? I don't see why Valve would halt the idea just because of that. They sell all types of games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    PCs are already years ahead of what's in consoles. I expect the next generation of consoles to maybe catch up to a mid-high level pc in terms of graphics that we have now.
    I think you might be putting the consoles too far down the list. At a minimum they should properly support 1080p at playable framerates, and since they're probably going to have to last a while they'll probably need fairly decent overhauls. Until the specs are released we won't know, but even then the raw specs don't easily translate (save for RAM of course).

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I really do not see why the form factor is such an issue for you. As mentioned, what you see in that picture, is not the finished product. It might be larger. Even if it's not, it doesn't need a high end GPU in it. It needs something, that can compete with what a console can do, so thats 720p at 30fps. And that's one thing I think you might be overlooking? You don't need a bazillion FPS or even 1080p when you're playing on a tv half way across the room. The only reason you need it for your PC is because most likely you sit about two foot away from the screen.

    Even if there is a massive jump in tech and power for the next console generation, which we assume is out next year, there's still going to be about 3-4 years worth of adoption time, where for the most part the newer games won't get much better looking than the older ones.

    It's not for us hobbyists. The steambox for us is the equivalent of those little toy remote control helicopters you buy in Maplins that a remote control helicopter hobbyist would scoff at because his one is ten times more bigger and powerful. But for the guy who buys the one in Maplin all he wants is something to mess about with in his room or harass the dog with.

  12. #52
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    Who says it's a console anyway?

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I really do not see why the form factor is such an issue for you. As mentioned, what you see in that picture, is not the finished product. It might be larger. Even if it's not, it doesn't need a high end GPU in it. It needs something, that can compete with what a console can do, so thats 720p at 30fps. And that's one thing I think you might be overlooking? You don't need a bazillion FPS or even 1080p when you're playing on a tv half way across the room. The only reason you need it for your PC is because most likely you sit about two foot away from the screen.
    Correct, you might not need those things. However, consumers will compare it with the next console generation, which will no doubt feature a shining 1080p resolution. That would be an excellent differential advantage for the consolists. Need should not be confused with want.

    The Steambox or any other claimant will have to stand its ground against next-gen consoles.

  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Nobody, but if it's going into a living room with big picture mode, it's main competition will be with consoles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Correct, you might not need those things. However, consumers will compare it with the next console generation, which will no doubt feature a shining 1080p resolution. That would be an excellent differential advantage for the consolists. Need should not be confused with want.

    The Steambox or any other claimant will have to stand its ground against next-gen consoles.
    And we don't know the of any of this or the future hardware. We just know that currently, the specs for Xi3's "best" machine aren't anything to be sniffed at for something that would fit in your hand. So the next consoles might and might not have 1080p and this might and might not have 1080p. Time'll tell.
    Last edited by Jesus_Phish; 08-01-2013 at 03:49 PM.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    I am surprised neither Trjp nor mash have posted yet. This seems like the antithesis to what trjp wants and it potentially IS what mash wants.


    While we don't really know anything yet, I think it is safe to say the following:
    It will probably support streaming of some form. Whether from a PC (thus validating my theory that nVidia's Shield announced a feature for Valve) or from a magical cloud (like OnLive, but Valvey).
    This is a big part of why Big Picture mode was made
    This MAY be why Steam is pushing for Linux. A stripped down Linux will use a LOT less resources than Windows
    It won't be a super-high end rig, but it will probably be comparable to a gaming laptop.


    While I hold off my judgement until more information (or any information) is known, I might end up getting one of these (on sale :p) if the performance/capabilities are decent and the price point is good. I don't need (or want) to play ArmA3 or Crysis or whatever on here, but if I can play some of my more controller-friendly PC games in front of the TV without hooking stuff up, that is worth some cash to me. And it is definitely portable enough that I could bring it over to a friend's place to play games with.

    ... Valve may have just resurrected LAN gaming :p
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Look at it - it doesn't even seem to be capable of that. It's tiny, they're not going to be running PC games even at 720p at 30FPS.
    The fact that it's tiny is irrelevant. A Samsung 7 slate is more powerful than the X5A despite the actual hardware taking even less space once you remove the screen. You won't be playing Crysis on it, but L4D is okay.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    I don't know what this thing does,
    but if it only does that thing to Steam games,
    and not to all the other games on my computer,
    then it's a sort of pointless garbage.
    (So I hope it does that thing to other games).
    Last edited by Berzee; 08-01-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    [FONT=Tahoma]
    Quote Originally Posted by "[/FONT
    Jesus_Phish"]PCs are already years ahead of what's in consoles. I expect the next generation of consoles to maybe catch up to a mid-high level pc in terms of graphics that we have now.


    I think you might be putting the consoles too far down the list. At a minimum they should properly support 1080p at playable framerates, and since they're probably going to have to last a while they'll probably need fairly decent overhauls. Until the specs are released we won't know, but even then the raw specs don't easily translate (save for RAM of course).
    Yeah this is a bit crazy. Considering a high end PC now can play AAA games at silly fps (80-100) and that the upcoming gen of consoles have those same high end GPUs except to smaller nm and integrated onto the same chip as the CPU, then without any driver or OS overhead. It seems likely that the moment they come out the next gen consoles will blitz high end PCs and probably for a year or two after that.

    This box however seems unlikely to match that, though I wouldn't put it past it to reach 1080px30fps for some things. I just got a cheap 330 laptop with an Intel HD 4000 GPU, it seems to be able to run XCOM on high detail at 20fps (not great) 1366768. But that's a piece of crap. You don't need a GTX 680 to get 30-60fps at 1080, not even close.

    EDIT: Still 800 is a bit silly as it can never compete with consoles at that price point, I expect if/when/whatever the "SteamBox" turns up it will compete with the consoles on price and performance.
    Last edited by Zephro; 08-01-2013 at 04:13 PM.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    I'd expect Valve to subsidize the price quite heavily. It's common practice.

  20. #60
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    I don't expect it wants to compete with consoles. Until we see what it can actually do we can only guess at it's market target.

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