Page 6 of 13 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 254

Thread: Cyberpunk 2077

  1. #101
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    868
    The Cyberpunk setting has been about glamor and style more than anything else. Anyway, the teaser wasn't released to expound the lore or provide context, but to, well, tease.

  2. #102
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,228
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    From an ign article:
    Everything sounds good expect this,don't know what to think of it.



    'Style Over Substance' is our core theme, after all.”

  3. #103
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    868
    That is CDPR's Badowski speaking, ign just posted it on their site.

    'Style Over Substance' is our core theme, after all.

    I think he is referring to the setting and world in general. For example having a melee character taking down a bunch of gun-wielding mercs, that kinda stuff.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Everything sounds good expect this,don't know what to think of it.



    'Style Over Substance' is our core theme, after all.”
    It's a core CP theme. You can't just do shit, you have to look cool doing it.

  5. #105
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,900
    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Everything sounds good expect this,don't know what to think of it.
    'Style Over Substance' is our core theme, after all.”
    I think that's to be taken in the context of the rest of the quote; that it's in reference to the implants/augs, and the aesthetic of the game... the tech for the augs means that they could look exactly like a normal human, but as it's style over substance, they can look outrageous if that's the style you/they want. I don't think it means they're aiming to make a game that looks all cool and stuff, but is completely hollow and plays like crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  6. #106

  7. #107
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    How is it a contradiction? Are you implying that sexualization is a strict no-no if one is to give depth to a character, either male or female, or do you think that the nudity is there for the sole purpose of titillation? Sex is a integral part of life, depicting people in a sexualized manner adds to the personality of a given character when done tastefully.
    Iím saying that having women presented as whole individuals who very much add to the game and to the experience in a multi-faceted way doesnít really square with women who exist solely in the world to be fucked and to literally collect like football stickers. Itís not really about the sex at all, itís about the role of the women-the former example is that of as an equal to all other characters bar the protagonist; the other exists solely to please the player as a literal object, both within and outside the game itself.

    The idea on the hand of women in games being presented as something both strong and individual while nevertheless also being something bendable to the will of the male protagonist and a trophy for them to notch off certainly is contradictory. None the less in my opinion the true goal of feminism is equality, it is not about the promotion of women above all else, it is about the promotion of women in reaction to millennia of oppression. True feminism to me is the removal of mysognony so that women can be focussed on as individuals. A truly revolutionary game in regards to gender will not have strong female characters. It will just have good characters. Some of them will be women, some men. They wonít be the same, but gender will just be one of many things which shapes who they are, rather than the main one, which is the case for even non sexualised computer game females.

    Example-If you added male prostitutes to the Witcher I think the issue of all the sex card stuff even would be removed in all honesty. As it stands itís ugly and uncompromising because it reflects how many men consider women. There are posts on the Witcher forums which discuss favourite cards and women to sex, which I think is pretty dire. If you add gender equality to that though it removes the issue of gender and becomes about something else at a stroke without hiding behind anything. It becomes about sex as a commodity and collectible stuff, or about a silly little thing. It doesnít suggest women should be exclusively tied to this discussion which is where the harm lies, nor does it suggest they arenít sexual beings either.

    Many women, my wife included, are both impressive all round individuals and also incredibly conventionally sexy and hot and all that stuff, the two are by no means contradictory, which I think is a creeping issue in the very necessary reaction to sexism within gaming. Because women have been presented as largely sexual objects in popular culture around games, the notion is that any female who adheres to this must be a bad example or compromise somehow. This simply isnít true. Being demure isnít positive either and saying that good examples must dress in a certain way or cover up etc is just another form of telling women who to be and what to do. The whole point is that you judge someone, irrespective of gender, on who they are, what they do, not what they look like. Sex is a blank canvas-it can be empowering and edifying, debilitating, abusive, anything really. It all depends on the context. Merely reading boobies and revealing clothing as sexist is bad practice in my opinion. Letís be honest, it usually is, but the point is you need to engage with it to really know. If you preach without knowing or trying to understand in favour of your preffered method of seeing the world, itís just another form of telling people what to do and what to think, which at heart is what sexism and mysogony is.

    I think people have seen the hot woman in the trailer and largely ranked her as a sexy collectible on the grounds of her looks alone (thereís an irony there somewhere about the shallowness of judging something as shallow on the basis of nothing but looks) when she could turn out to be the most brilliant portrayal of woman in gaming. The fact is we just donít know, and there isnít enough to go on.

  8. #108
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,792
    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    I think people have seen the hot woman in the trailer and largely ranked her as a sexy collectible on the grounds of her looks alone (there’s an irony there somewhere about the shallowness of judging something as shallow on the basis of nothing but looks) when she could turn out to be the most brilliant portrayal of woman in gaming. The fact is we just don’t know, and there isn’t enough to go on.
    The thing is that is judging it as a piece of story or narrative. This is a piece of marketing.

    If you took a film with a brilliant portrayal of a woman and then for advertising out of context picked a scene of her in the shower for no reason, then the advertising would have elements of sexism without colouring the original narrative. In the same way this may be the best well rounded portrayal in a game, but that doesn't stop the trailer from containing sexist elements.

    Another example would be a particular scene in a film can be at odds to the rest of the character, so that scene contains sexist elements but not the overall portrayal.

    Otherwise I agree completely.

  9. #109
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    If you took a film with a brilliant portrayal of a woman and then for advertising out of context picked a scene of her in the shower for no reason, then the advertising would have elements of sexism without colouring the original narrative. In the same way this may be the best well rounded portrayal in a game, but that doesn't stop the trailer from containing sexist elements.
    A woman showering is sexist... how?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  10. #110
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,792
    Seriously? Is this post irony that I'm missing?

  11. #111
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Seriously? Is this post irony that I'm missing?
    No. Are you trying to be ironic or something? What about a woman showering is sexist, necessarily? Seriously... I don't see why a woman showering should be considered sexist. I can see how you could make a depiction of a woman showering sexist or degrading... but that wouldn't be because it's a woman showering, it would be because it's made to be gratuitous etc.

    And, to expand on your previous post, I think that's one of the mistakes people make... just because a work of fiction etc. contains sexism or similar, it doesn't make that work sexist. If I wrote a piece of queer literature that contained a number of homophobes, that doesn't make the work homophobic. There's a difference between presenting and condoning something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  12. #112
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    ...
    Example-If you added male prostitutes to the Witcher I think the issue of all the sex card stuff even would be removed in all honesty. As it stands it’s ugly and uncompromising because it reflects how many men consider women. There are posts on the Witcher forums which discuss favourite cards and women to sex, which I think is pretty dire. If you add gender equality to that though it removes the issue of gender and becomes about something else at a stroke without hiding behind anything. It becomes about sex as a commodity and collectible stuff, or about a silly little thing. It doesn’t suggest women should be exclusively tied to this discussion which is where the harm lies, nor does it suggest they aren’t sexual beings either.
    I disagree with this. To me the shagging and card collecting in The Witcher 1 didn't seem something that commodified women. Firstly, in the context of the game's setting, the women get shagged by Geralt not because he asks them to but because he is sterile. I think this is expounded better in Sapkowski's novels where otherwise chaste women try getting it on with witchers because they can get away with it. So to me, the interactions between the protagonist and the women is not just for the sake of getting Geralt's dick wet.

    I don't think I get what you are trying to say in the second half of your argument. I think the card collecting is a trivial and silly facet of the game no matter whether Geralt has sex with women, men or both. Just because the main character is heterosexual doesn't mean that the card minigame becomes something which demeans women.

    There are posts on the Witcher forums which discuss favourite cards and women to sex, which I think is pretty dire.


    No, it isn't. We all casually talk about doing killings and violence in video games, why should such discussions revolving around sex be objectionable as long as they are limited to video games?

    Many women, my wife included, are both impressive all round individuals and also incredibly conventionally sexy and hot and all that stuff, the two are by no means contradictory, which I think is a creeping issue in the very necessary reaction to sexism within gaming...

    I think people have seen the hot woman in the trailer and largely ranked her as a sexy collectible on the grounds of her looks alone (there’s an irony there somewhere about the shallowness of judging something as shallow on the basis of nothing but looks) when she could turn out to be the most brilliant portrayal of woman in gaming. The fact is we just don’t know, and there isn’t enough to go on.
    I appreciate the detailed reply though this is just what I was trying to convey in my previous post(in a less articulate manner). I can't say much to this other than that I wholeheartedly agree with you.
    Last edited by Shane; 11-01-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  13. #113
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,792
    @Unaco
    Yeah I said that the overall piece wouldn't necessarily be sexist, it being a sliding scale, so that's totally cross purposes. Who on earth would think that having homophobic characters in something makes the entirety homophobic? Who is that arguing against exactly? :-S

    Also I thought it was ironic trolling because you took a sentence containing the phrase "out of context" totally out of context.
    Last edited by Zephro; 11-01-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  14. #114
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,957
    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    GITS had a really cool world, but it spent a lot of time saying very little in a rather drawn out fashion. I liked the characters and the voices and the style and the action sequences and the world building ... but the writing really let me down. Haven't tried GITS SAC ... would you recommend the show based on my issues with the film?
    I didn't spot a direct reply to your question, so here's my take:

    I assume you saw the first GitS movie, which is very much a typical product of Mamoru Oshii in its approach to storytelling, you probably don't / won't like his other movies as well. The sequel is less philosophical, and more noire than the first, which basically tackles the themes of the nature of humanity / what it means to be human / how technology affects/changes humanity, it is effectively a combination of the original manga and Blade Runner, but more introspective than both of them.

    GITS SAC revolves around smaller cases presented in a episodic format that link together to form a bigger picture as the series progresses and as such is closer to the formula of the original manga: the tone is a lot less philosophical than the movie (still you get at least an introspection per episode on average :P) but far more dry than the manga - which has more than its fair share of silly/comedic moments in addition to explicit sex sequences.

    I'd say SAC is both excellent and the most accessible part of the franchise, and if you want to give it another try, it's probably your best bet.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    But at the end of the day I don't think it told a particularly interesting story.
    Blasphemy!
    Looking for you daily bundle fix? Join us on The onward march of bundles
    Stalk my Steam profile, or follow my fight against the backlog on HowLongToBeat.

    "You take the Klingon's detached hand"

  15. #115
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,069
    This is going to be another 14 pages, won't it

  16. #116
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,228
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    This is going to be another 14 pages, won't it

    If they at least talkeda about the damn game..

  17. #117
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    @Unaco
    Who earth would think that having homophobic characters in something makes the entirety homophobic? Who is that arguing against exactly? :-S.
    Take a look at GRR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series that gets frequently criticized for being misogynist in nature because it features rapes, arranged marriages and child sex.

  18. #118
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,569
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Take a look at GRR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series that gets frequently criticized for being misogynist in nature because it features rapes, arranged marriages and child sex.
    People missing the context, as with this trailer.

    Even in the absence of a context I don't mind misogyny. I don't want to limit creative freedom just because someone is offended.

  19. #119
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Also I thought it was ironic trolling because you took a sentence containing the phrase "out of context" totally out of context.
    True... after reading back what you said, I see you weren't saying the woman showering would be sexist, but the decision to chose a "titillating" or similar scene without reason would be, perhaps (if I haven't got that right, apologies again).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Who earth would think that having homophobic characters in something makes the entirety homophobic? Who is that arguing against exactly?
    You'd be surprised. I've seen plenty people arguing that the inclusion of something (sexism, misogyny, homophobia, etc.) in a work of fiction equals the condoning or promotion of that thing. As Shane points out, GRRM is criticised as being sexist etc. for including certain things. Another example would be R Scott Bakker, who is regularly criticised for misogyny, promotion of rape etc. even though he has specifically stated that he includes these things, and makes them horrible, to try and show how horrible they are, and the Predatory system that allows them to happen... he doesn't condone them in the slightest. But, it's the inclusion of these things, regardless of how he handles them, which are criticised. His female characters really aren't very nice (they're either whores or power hungry manipulators), therefore he doesn't like women, the argument goes... but, his male characters are also f*cking terrible, worse than the women almost. Having shitty depictions of women is taken out of the context of a shitty world, where everything and everyone is shitty, as evidence of negative sentiment towards women.

    I was actually agreeing with what you say, that something can contain or depict "sexist elements but not the overall portrayal".
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  20. #120
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    5,331
    I think one issue with this (and most discussions on the subject) is that people think fanservice is inherently sexist/mysoginistic.
    It isn't. It often can be (and often is...), but it isn't.

    If a trailer/image/scene consts of:

    Two attractive people having tender and passionate sex scene with lots of nudity. That is not sexist, but it sure is sexy.
    Shirtless dude covered in sweat and oil holding a sword. Not sexist, but is sexy to the right audience

    Two attractive people having tender and passionate sex scene where the dude is choking the woman (or vice versa). In context, it might not be sexist or "bad", but very questionable if used as just the trailer.
    Shirtless dude covered in sweat and oil holding a sword with a chained up woman at his feet. That is pretty much the standard example of sexist book covers for a reason...


    Obviously there then comes the problem of "When are you over-sexualizing into treating them like objects" issue. But for the sake of a trailer, we just don't have enough data.

    Because, remember: Trailers have a tendency to lie.
    One of my favorite movies of recent years, Defendor, has a trailer that makes it seem like a zany comedy. Instead, it is a very dark story of a mentally ill person dealing with his issues in the only way he can, and the impact that has on an uncaring society.
    Steam: Gundato
    PSN: Gundato
    If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •