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Thread: Cyberpunk 2077

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    So there's an interesting(?) topic going on the front page of the article where some people think this trailer is hateful towards women because of the content in it and lazy because it doesn't show very much and leaves it to you to use your imagination as to what's going on.

    Anyone here care to share their views on it?
    All those people should be dragged out into a middle of the street at 2AM and shot.

    The teaser... is a teaser.

    If a bullet from a rifle could not even scratch the android chick(lame) then what would a headshot from a pistol achieve?

    Also, these goggles are derpy. It's like you're playing one of these hammersharks or whattheirname.

  2. #62
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Your first line isn't my opinion if that's what you're suggesting?

  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    So cops shooting at men is ok but shooting at women is hateful towards them? Is that one of those "we want to be offended for the sake of it" discussions?
    I think it's at least partially not one of those. Let's stick to the merits of the opinions and or move on to other things rather than speculate senselessly as to the motivations of the opinionated.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    It's explained in the press release - She went 'Psycho' which is where people with too many implants go crazy and start killing people and start referring to people as meatbags (which is awfully specific, why would everyone single person who this phenomenon occurs to suddenly agree on a new argot!?).
    Mike Pondsmith is not Shakespeare is your answer.

    Also uggh at the inevitable 'boobs' meltdown on the front page....

  5. #65
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    So cops shooting at men is ok but shooting at women is hateful towards them? Is that one of those "we want to be offended for the sake of it" discussions?
    That seems to miss a whole load of social context and context from the trailer. Why is it a half naked woman exactly?

  6. #66
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    That seems to miss a whole load of social context and context from the trailer. Why is it a half naked woman exactly?
    For one, who says that she didn't went psycho while in bed or at home on the couch? I don't know too many women who spend leisure time in their finest party dress. Speaking of which, easier to render.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  7. #67
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    For one, who says that she didn't went psycho while in bed or at home on the couch? I don't know too many women who spend leisure time in their finest party dress. Speaking of which, easier to render.
    I know plenty who spend leisure time fully dressed, just not necessarily in something they'd wear out. That sort of argument cuts both ways and always ends in a wash. It's not really part of the issue. Ditto about the ease of rendering. One way smooth skin but muscle tone and proper joints and whatnot ... the other way potentially smooth fabric with all sorts of textural and contour possibilities that range from far easier to far more complicated.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 11-01-2013 at 12:33 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

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  8. #68
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    The trailer looked good and I trust CD Project for the game, they have not disappointed me so far. I loved the Witcher 2.

    On the subject of skin, my first reaction was also why is she wearing almost nothing and her boobs are about to spill out? We don't have the context (the previous fight etc), maybe he clothes were torn in the fight?

    On the other hand they could have presented her with torn clothes but in a less sexy manner. CD Pr have a sort of history of sexualising women although as was said above it was ameliorated in W2. I can also buy the argument that it's cyberpunk, aesthetics are everything etc but in the end it was a bit too sexualised for me. I can only think of one good reason to have it like this: marketing.

    Having said that, boobs are abundant in GITS and they don't seem to have a role to play in the stories. I guess it's part of the fiction but that doesn't mean it can't change...

    As for being too passive about the whole thing, the idea I got was that she was worn out by all the slaughter or even shut down in some way after it? She seems not to be aware of what's happening.

    Anyway I remain optimistic about the game, I would like to see gameplay and more details.

    On Snow Crash: having read it only about a year ago, I didn't find it that amazing but it was enjoyable. It was a good book but it seemed to me that most of the ideas were already presented somewhere else. Maybe if I had read it when it came out, it would have been different. I did find the idea about the language intriguing though. I seem to remember there were theories that there used to be a universal language which got splintered in various dialects (no, not from the bible).

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    That seems to miss a whole load of social context and context from the trailer. Why is it a half naked woman exactly?
    Because everyone fucking loves juxtaposition archetypes such as "a slim woman so she should be weak physically but she just like murdered ten guys and is immune to bullets"

  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    For one, who says that she didn't went psycho while in bed or at home on the couch? I don't know too many women who spend leisure time in their finest party dress. Speaking of which, easier to render.
    I dunno most women I know wear pyjamas or unsexy short/t-shirt combinations in bed or at home. Also they don't tend to wear makeup.

    Anyway that is besides the point. The context for that isn't provided in the trailer, maybe in the fuller story that context is provided, maybe not. As that's not presented, why would a producer choose to represent a woman and ontop of that a woman in a sexy/skimpy little outfit? I'm sure it's just because it would appeal to their target audience of men, but that doesn't really stop it being a bit sexist.

    So yeah I was kind of considering it in terms of author motivation or justification.

    Having said that, boobs are abundant in GITS and they don't seem to have a role to play in the stories. I guess it's part of the fiction but that doesn't mean it can't change...
    This. Just because something is the done thing doesn't mean you should ape it. With Ghost in the Shell in mind, they seriously ameliorated it in the Stand Alone Complex. She wore far more clothes and they discussed Kusanagi's gender identity in a more thoughtful manner. Perhaps because they realised change was needed from the film.
    Last edited by Zephro; 11-01-2013 at 12:52 PM.

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    I dunno most women I know wear pyjamas or unsexy short/t-shirt combinations in bed or at home. Also they don't tend to wear makeup.
    Well, that's the year 2077 for you. 24-hour stay-on makeup built to resist a bullet shot from short distance.

    (seriously, with her skin being able to ricochet a bullet I assumed that her skin wasn't real skin, so that might not be real make-up either)
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    Well, that's the year 2077 for you. 24-hour stay-on makeup built to resist a bullet shot from short distance.

    (seriously, with her skin being able to ricochet a bullet I assumed that her skin wasn't real skin, so that might not be real make-up either)
    Yeah, but it's a teaser. We're not involved with the world. We don't know what's what. We're being flung into this situation and we only have our own experiences and what they give us to go on. If you have to be a long-term Cyberpunk fan who's reading between the lines not to see something uncomfortable about the scene than it's probably failing to do it's job.

    Appearance is everything in this sort of world. But she's dressed in a uniquely contemporary manner compared to the other people we see in the trailer. The dead folks seem to have unusual, pop-y, punk-y outfits but it's hard to tell. Then there's the cops and the Max Tac guy. Then there's her, wearing the top half of a way-too-tight top that wouldn't be out of place in a club right now or even ten years ago. It's a generic, white, tight, shiny (possibly leather or vinyl or some future material), shoulder-less top.

    If we hunt around for context, it still looks weird. And that's not the kind of hunting around for context we should be doing in a teaser for an exciting, upcoming game. Which isn't to say the trailer is especially heinous. But thinking of all the ways to evoke the sorts of rationals that you come up with the explain the trailer and all the details of Cyberpunk fiction that could support the way she looks ... it feels like there are better ways to have evoked those things that aren't as difficult to distinguish from more blatant sexism.

    Once again, it's hard to say what we should do with this kind of media, which should exist in a non-sexist world without being a problem. It's not inherently or explicitly hateful or disrespectful towards women. But it can be seen as problematic from a perfectly reasonable perspective. It deserves to be questioned.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 11-01-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    So there's an interesting(?) topic going on the front page of the article where some people think this trailer is hateful towards women because of the content in it and lazy because it doesn't show very much and leaves it to you to use your imagination as to what's going on.
    Fuck them. Why should it matter whether violence is being perpetrated against a man or a woman(invincible at that)? So what if the character is in a gown, lingerie or just plain naked, why should it matter in a friggin 2 minute CGI trailer that lacks any context? It would be inappropriate if all the women in the game walked around naked on the streets jiggling their tits, but here there's just one character in the teaser about whom we know next to nothing. Internet ultra-feminists' going apeshit over any depiction of female sexuality or women getting involved in violence are really beginning to piss me off.

    I think I'll go fap to some shitty lesbian porn to calm myself.

  14. #74
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Fuck them. Why should it matter whether violence is being perpetrated against a man or a woman(invincible at that)? So what if the character is in a gown, lingerie or just plain naked, why should it matter in a friggin 2 minute CGI trailer that lacks any context? It would be inappropriate if all the women in the game walked around naked on the streets jiggling their tits, but here there's just one character in the teaser about whom we know next to nothing. Internet ultra-feminists' going apeshit over any depiction of female sexuality or women getting involved in violence are really beginning to piss me off.

    I think I'll go fap to some shitty lesbian porn to calm myself.
    It shouldn't matter. Trouble is it often does for the wrong reasons. Sometimes in the preparation of otherwise harmless videos like this. I'm ... sort of on your side in that I don't personally find the video bothersome especially due to some of the factors you mention. But I don't think this is all the work of crazy ultra feminists--bear in mind how many crappy depictions of women slide by without comment and it becomes easy to understand why some of the not-so-bad stuff gets caught in the crossfire.

    Your parting shot certainly doesn't help you stand out as a voice of reason.

    Why does it make you angry that people are, in your estimation, being irrationally riled up over something you don't find problematic?
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Why does it make you angry that people are, in your estimation, being irrationally riled up over something you don't find problematic?
    Because they don't accept their opponent's opinion as possibly valid. And vice versa.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  16. #76
    Lesser Hivemind Node Gorzan's Avatar
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    About the half naked lady, on cyberpunk 2020 the woman is even more sexualized than our own, wich actually makes some sense with the obsession to unnaturally improve one's body showing off that body becomes natural and expected, both on regular life and industry.
    But really, I think the main reason is because it fits the stylistic context. Asking why this woman is dressed like that is like asking why a barbarian only wears a little loincloth or a sorceress shows as much flesh as she can on a pulp fantasy context. I wouldn't question the dressing code on one of Frazetta's illustrations, I won't do so here.

  17. #77
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    i miss me some dansels in distress so i guess i will go back to play some sexist games of the past.

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Again I'm not overly bothered by this trailer, it seems a bit off but there's far worse (and far better). However it's always legitimate to ask questions of the author's intent or discuss things openly in a reasonable manner.

    Things exist within the context of our entire society so discussing them as part of that whole is important. I think author's kind of have a responsibility to at least consider it when producing and releasing media to the public.

  19. #79
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    I guess it's just a nod or some kind to the one on the page 5 of the rulebook? From what I've heard it's an open-world RPG and you can choose whatever your roles are (Nomad, Solo, Cop etc) so I guess the teaser trailer just trying to establish how prominent cyberpsychosis is in the game and Psycho Squad's role in it. On the page 73 & 74 in the said rulebook you can see they give a more in-depth info about the things related to the teaser.
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  20. #80
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    CD Projekt definitely likes boobies. But they also tend to sexualize the men as well.


    Geralt is actually half-naked quite often (and often every time there is a nekkid woman around). And he has a wiry build, not the super beefcake build (which is where this argument usually falls short, since "the ideal man" is usually interpeted to be Ahnold by artists). So while it is still a bit too close to "Male fantasy", I think they are better at it than most. And, as mentioned, Triss is a pretty strong character. And I am REALLY interested in how they handle You-Know-Who in TW3 since she was actually a fairly strong character in the books as well (well, the one and a half books that are in English :p).


    As for the trailer: I see nothing wrong with it. Yes, it is tittilating (tee hee), but it is justified. THis is someone who aug'd herself to hell and back going crazy. Who tends to do insane amounts of elective surgery? People who want to "be pretty". So it makes sense that it would juxtapose her beauty with her being insanely dangerous. She is clearly not helpless (in the sense of being able to kill everyone. Mentally? Who knows), and would probably have wiped out all the normal cops if super-cop hadn't used Maximum Speed to flash-step behind her.
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